2020 Hawks Offseason Thread:

[boogiewithstu2007]

that's not piss poor strategy that's just X's and O's. A defense schemes up for offensive formations and they have check's and balances. If a defense is in man/zone and then the offense shifts the defense can match and shift but this could then make say CLOWNEY cover not rush. Trying to scheme around that would be extremely hard you would then be practicing for ONE single type of play for hours and thats just not how they do it and the more you talk about it the more i wonder if you ever even played football in Highschool or higher where you start getting much better coaching. I am not bashing you or saying you are not right i am saying you seem to not understand how this all works at the "deepest" most fundamental level. you can not SCHEME for everything no matter what!

You can’t let the offense dictate whether your best pass rusher goes into coverage or rushes after the passer, otherwise teams will ALWAYS go into formations to put your edge rusher into pass coverage... and you definitely don’t blitz Rodgers twice with your season on the line, that’s like slapping a sleeping Bear in the face! Send 4, have 7 in coverage and hope like hell Clowney or someone gets pressure on him... I’m not saying never blitz him either, I’m just saying don’t do it twice on 3rd and long with the season on the line!!!

 

[Screamin12th]

I defense reacts to a offense, there is only so many ways to react and no matter what the offense dictates the defense. It's just how it is.

 

[blstoker]

I know people are calling for all sorts of changes to the defense right now, but my main focus is the dline and nothing else. Flowers and Amadi could be our starter and nickel next year and I wouldn’t have a problem with it. The line needs improvement across the board. More about pressure and better run defense. We need DTs as much as DEs and right now no one under contract makes me think that we’re looking at a player who could improve enough to let their spot be left alone this offseason. Right now there are 3 spots needing filled with starter talent and depth behind that. Dline is by far the worst unit on the team.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I know people are calling for all sorts of changes to the defense right now, but my main focus is the dline and nothing else. Flowers and Amadi could be our starter and nickel next year and I wouldn’t have a problem with it. The line needs improvement across the board. More about pressure and better run defense. We need DTs as much as DEs and right now no one under contract makes me think that we’re looking at a player who could improve enough to let their spot be left alone this offseason. Right now there are 3 spots needing filled with starter talent and depth behind that. Dline is by far the worst unit on the team.

I agree with that, safety play is solid, especially with Diggs now, he's a baller, still don't understand how Detroit let him go, good for us.... We could still use another good corner, gotta solidify that spot, linebacker were solid, D line is definitely needs some attention, it's not a D line that get's pushed around but we need to generate more pressure upfront, pass rush specifically... Reed, Clowney, lock them up if possible and go from there.. Poona ford seems like a gem, and he's only 24, Rasheem is only 22 , LJ better show more, he was a disappointment but only a rookie so gotta give him time, Ziggy watch walk, Al Woods was a good run stuffer, but got popped for peds, that hurt us, not sure if the'll bring him back, but he's decent but getting older... Jefferson they might consider bringing back, he had a good year..

 

[seahawksfan234]

Dang we share a lot of same line of thinking on the Seahawks. Clowney is important to a DL lacking playmakers, but the money, guarantees, ....IDK if it would work out signing him, I worry it will end up being a mistake made on a career season in a contract year for a player with a injury history. Yet the Seahawks need what he produced last season so back to IDK.....

The Seahawks really do have a tough decision to make when it comes to Clowney. He's going to likely command $20m+ per year, and hasn't had a season with double digit sacks. On the other hand when he's on, he's a game wrecker. It's strange to say about a guy who is 27, but I still think he has untapped potential. The guy just has physical traits that are unreal. That game against the 49ers was the best game I've seen by a Seahawks defensive lineman in my time as a Seahawks fan.

It's really hard to say. I rely a lot on PFF and they grade him as an elite run defender and just an above average pass rusher. In today's NFL, $20m a year is a lot to give to an edge player whose best trait is his run defense.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Great input... Tough to find the bargains you mention for DL... We tried last year with Ziggy... Clowney is a must sign imo... ...

Drake? Yes... Agreed... Hyde wouldn't be a bad option, nor would he cost too much imo...

I'm with you on KJ Wright... We can't afford to have a regressing LB make that much dinero this coming season... Especially if we have a rising star basically making league minimum lying in the wings... I personally want to see more Cody Barton... He's got a high motor and a very high football IQ... He's what we need in that LB corp... IMO, KJ looked like he really lost a step this season... Had a hard time covering TE's, something he's been good in prior years...

Appreciate the feedback.

It's always hard to find bargains - as you mentioned with Ziggy - but that's why they're bargains. I don't have any credible source to back this up, but I personally think the Seahawks rushed Ziggy back. I don't think he was able to even lift weights until a month or so before he started getting playing time. Since he was coming off a pectoral tear, how is he supposed to regain upper body strength when he can't even do upper body exercises? Can't do a bench press with just one side of your body.

When it comes to the runningbacks, I think it really depends on what the team thinks about Carson and Penny's recovery time. Given the injury history of both of Carson and Penny, if they think one, or both of them might not be available at the beginning of the season it definitely makes sense to sign someone. I wouldn't make a splash signing personally.

I think that K.J. Wright had what I'd call a league average season for a strong side linebacker in a 4-3 scheme. His cap hit for 2020 is $10m and we'd save $7.5m by cutting him. That's a lot of money to pay someone who isn't at least above average. I really like Cody Barton and don't think we'd be losing much replacing Wright with Barton and it also speeds up Barton's development by getting regular playing time.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I know people are calling for all sorts of changes to the defense right now, but my main focus is the dline and nothing else. Flowers and Amadi could be our starter and nickel next year and I wouldn’t have a problem with it. The line needs improvement across the board. More about pressure and better run defense. We need DTs as much as DEs and right now no one under contract makes me think that we’re looking at a player who could improve enough to let their spot be left alone this offseason. Right now there are 3 spots needing filled with starter talent and depth behind that. Dline is by far the worst unit on the team.

I agree that the defensive line should be our number one priority this offseason. I'm good with the safeties but I'd really like to get someone to at least compete with Tre Flowers. IMO he was pretty bad last year. I also suspect that the reason the Seahawks ran so many plays with 3 linebackers on the field is because they thought that was better than what we'd be able to do in a nickel formation.

To contradict myself a bit, if we do improve the pass rush that'll make it easier on the secondary. I wish the Seahawks would've used Ugo Amadi in the slot more because I think he has a lot of potential.

 

[Screamin12th]

Defense needs more speed. they also need a stud CB, one that tracks balls not stares at the WR never locating the ball. They need a big safety to play in the box and maybe that's Blair if he bulks up 15-20 pounds ( muscle ) this offseason. The Dline needs a complete overhaul and major talent increase.

The way Petes defense has always worked, can not work with the talent they have right now and the main reason is the lack of speed and pressure. They need more speed at Outside linebacker and at Safety ( Both SS and FS ) They also need with out a doubt more pressure from the front 4, 28 sacks people thats just sad. Since they started keeping track of Sacks this is the 2nd worst season EVER by the hawks in sacks ( not counting strike seasons ) 2nd to the 27 in 2000. The talent on defense just is not there. Think about it the best players on Defense are Wagner, Clowney and KJ ( yep ) then a BIG drop off. Wagner and Clowney are studs KJ not so much but he is good. This team needs players at LEAST on the same level as KJ is right now and that's not saying much. KJ is not a Probowl caliber player any more he is a solid LBer and starter. The Hawks have a team of Back-up on Defense right now.

Sad to think that Jim Mora's POS Team/Defense had just as many sacks as this team. The lack of talent on defense is shocking and the Hawks have their work cut out for them.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Defense needs more speed. they also need a stud CB, one that tracks balls not stares at the WR never locating the ball. They need a big safety to play in the box and maybe that's Blair if he bulks up 15-20 pounds ( muscle ) this offseason. The Dline needs a complete overhaul and major talent increase.

The way Petes defense has always worked, can not work with the talent they have right now and the main reason is the lack of speed and pressure. They need more speed at Outside linebacker and at Safety ( Both SS and FS ) They also need with out a doubt more pressure from the front 4, 28 sacks people thats just sad. Since they started keeping track of Sacks this is the 2nd worst season EVER by the hawks in sacks ( not counting strike seasons ) 2nd to the 27 in 2000. The talent on defense just is not there. Think about it the best players on Defense are Wagner, Clowney and KJ ( yep ) then a BIG drop off. Wagner and Clowney are studs KJ not so much but he is good. This team needs players at LEAST on the same level as KJ is right now and that's not saying much. KJ is not a Probowl caliber player any more he is a solid LBer and starter. The Hawks have a team of Back-up on Defense right now.

Sad to think that Jim Mora's POS Team/Defense had just as many sacks as this team. The lack of talent on defense is shocking and the Hawks have their work cut out for them.

I think that Quandre Diggs played really well for us and Bradley McDougald is an effective player when healthy. When it comes to Marquise Blair, I kind of disagree about him needing to bulk up. The dude is listed a bit under 200 but he can hit like he's 20lbs heavier.

You're spot on about needing to improve the pass rush. Part of the issues with the secondary can partially be attributed to the fact that we'd allow the opposing QB to sit in the pocket all day with time to throw. Andy fucking Dalton was able to rip us a new asshole because he had nobody pressuring him. Seahawks had 4 sacks that game (I believe) but I recall he had all day to throw.

It's actually quite incredible how many games the Seahawks won with all of the deficiencies they have on defense. On paper the Seahawks have a lot of replacement level players on defense.

 

[Screamin12th]

I think that Quandre Diggs played really well for us and Bradley McDougald is an effective player when healthy. When it comes to Marquise Blair, I kind of disagree about him needing to bulk up. The dude is listed a bit under 200 but he can hit like he's 20lbs heavier.

You're spot on about needing to improve the pass rush. Part of the issues with the secondary can partially be attributed to the fact that we'd allow the opposing QB to sit in the pocket all day with time to throw. Andy fucking Dalton was able to rip us a new asshole because he had nobody pressuring him. Seahawks had 4 sacks that game (I believe) but I recall he had all day to throw.

It's actually quite incredible how many games the Seahawks won with all of the deficiencies they have on defense. On paper the Seahawks have a lot of replacement level players on defense.

Diggs did play well for the Hawks but man he was just 1 to 2 steps slow from playing even higher. Thats the knock on him and his 4.5 speed to go along with being 5 foot 9 frame. He is a stud but just 1 to 2 steps slow when playing say FS, just go back and watch the film he is always there but always 1 to 2 steps slow. His coverage skills are also very good and to be honest i think he is a true 3rd safety or your nickle CB. Hawks need more speed at the safety position as neither McDougald ( 4.74 40 ) or Diggs ( 4.56 40 )are very fast and lead to just looking slow on Defense.

Blair 6 foot 1 and 196. That's not big enough for how he wants to play. He was ok in college because most of the people he was going up against were his size or smaller. In the NFL with the way he throws his body around hitting guys HEAVIER than him on almost every tackle like he did in college is going to get him killed. He is not hitting 5 foot 10 200 pound RB or 6 foot 1 WR that are 190 pounds, he is hitting 220+ pound RB's and 215+ pound WR's. He needs to add 15-20 pounds this offseason. I think he was around 200 when the season ended as he did bulk up a little. Blair adds some quickness to the defense and would really help the speed aspect. ( 4.48 40 )

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Appreciate the feedback.

It's always hard to find bargains - as you mentioned with Ziggy - but that's why they're bargains. I don't have any credible source to back this up, but I personally think the Seahawks rushed Ziggy back. I don't think he was able to even lift weights until a month or so before he started getting playing time. Since he was coming off a pectoral tear, how is he supposed to regain upper body strength when he can't even do upper body exercises? Can't do a bench press with just one side of your body.

When it comes to the runningbacks, I think it really depends on what the team thinks about Carson and Penny's recovery time. Given the injury history of both of Carson and Penny, if they think one, or both of them might not be available at the beginning of the season it definitely makes sense to sign someone. I wouldn't make a splash signing personally.

I think that K.J. Wright had what I'd call a league average season for a strong side linebacker in a 4-3 scheme. His cap hit for 2020 is $10m and we'd save $7.5m by cutting him. That's a lot of money to pay someone who isn't at least above average. I really like Cody Barton and don't think we'd be losing much replacing Wright with Barton and it also speeds up Barton's development by getting regular playing time.

If Barton's the guy going forward than the money saved with an already high amount of cap space can go to resigning Clowney which is a need on the D-line.

 

[Podunkparte]

Darius Slay is on the market. He's owed around $13M and will require probably 2 draft picks, plus a new contract, but he's a Pro Bowl CB under 30 and has a great relationship with Diggs.

If the FO doesn't have a great feeling about Clowney coming back, I would love to solidify the weakest part of our secondary with him.

 

[blstoker]

Darius Slay is on the market. He's owed around $13M and will require probably 2 draft picks, plus a new contract, but he's a Pro Bowl CB under 30 and has a great relationship with Diggs.

If the FO doesn't have a great feeling about Clowney coming back, I would love to solidify the weakest part of our secondary with him.

I'd be a little leary of Slay right now. His 2019 campaign was horrible. His PFF rating was 56.4. Though better than Flowers' 53.9, but for 10.5 million and draft picks you'd want to be sure that his horrible year was an aboration and not the start of his decline. If we're gonna get Tre Flowers 2019 production, I'd rather stick with Flowers, since he could bounce back like Griffin did.

 

[blstoker]

Projected Starter based on current roster (PFF 2019 Rating), assuming everyone's healthy to start the season:

QB: Russell Wilson (91.2)
HB: Chris Carson (77.9)
WR: Tyler Lockett (77.2)
WR: D.K. Metcalf (69.7)
WR: John Ursua (71.5*)
TE: Will Dissley (79.6)
TE: Greg Olson (66.8+)
T: Duane Brown (74.1)
G: Phil Haynes (64.3#)
C: Justin Britt (62.0)
G: Dj Fluker (60.4)
T: Jamarco Jones (49.2)

DE: LJ Collier (48.6)
DT: Poona Ford (73.3)
DT: Naz Jones (-)
DE: Rasheem Green (57.3)
LB: Cody Barton (48.7)
LB: Bobby Wagner (76.1)
LB: K.J. Wright (62.1)
CB: Shaquill Griffin (77.0)
CB: Tre Flowers (53.9)
CB: Ugo Amadi (54.8)
S: Bradley McDougald (62.0)
S: Quandre Diggs (76.4)

* limited action
+ Carolina Panthers
# Playoffs

 

[MrS]

Good lord that Dline is awful... They really painted themselves into a corner with terrible draft after terrible draft.

 

[seahawksfan234]

If Barton's the guy going forward than the money saved with an already high amount of cap space can go to resigning Clowney which is a need on the D-line.

I'm with you on this. I haven't seen many of the talking heads mention the possibility of cutting Wright, but the money we'd save by cutting him would be incredibly helpful. I also have a sort of blind faith that Cody Barton will be a good starter. Wright had a solid season in 2019, but not worth the $10m cap hit we'd be taking on with him.

I think there's more pros than cons when it comes to moving on from Wright. We save money, Barton gets experience and could possibly be an upgrade. He's on the wrong side of 30 and I doubt will be getting any better.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Diggs did play well for the Hawks but man he was just 1 to 2 steps slow from playing even higher. Thats the knock on him and his 4.5 speed to go along with being 5 foot 9 frame. He is a stud but just 1 to 2 steps slow when playing say FS, just go back and watch the film he is always there but always 1 to 2 steps slow. His coverage skills are also very good and to be honest i think he is a true 3rd safety or your nickle CB. Hawks need more speed at the safety position as neither McDougald ( 4.74 40 ) or Diggs ( 4.56 40 )are very fast and lead to just looking slow on Defense.

Blair 6 foot 1 and 196. That's not big enough for how he wants to play. He was ok in college because most of the people he was going up against were his size or smaller. In the NFL with the way he throws his body around hitting guys HEAVIER than him on almost every tackle like he did in college is going to get him killed. He is not hitting 5 foot 10 200 pound RB or 6 foot 1 WR that are 190 pounds, he is hitting 220+ pound RB's and 215+ pound WR's. He needs to add 15-20 pounds this offseason. I think he was around 200 when the season ended as he did bulk up a little. Blair adds some quickness to the defense and would really help the speed aspect. ( 4.48 40 )

Diggs: You bring up some good points and I agree and disagree with your evaluation on him. I agree that there were a handful of times when he was a step or two short of making a big play, and I wouldn't mind seeing him at nickel given the fact that we don't really have anyone with experience there. I think that his play at FS was what I'd categorize as above average, but not every team can find an Earl Thomas. The part I disagree with is evaluating the speed of a player merely by their 40. Running 40 yards in a straight line is a lot different than turning and closing on a player 10 yards or so away from you. If speed and size were all that matters, Taylor Mays would've been a Hall of Fame caliber player.

Blair: You could be right. I initially thought the same thing thinking that we drafted a "hard hitting" safety who is a hair under 200lbs. The thing I observed about him is that he takes great angles and creates these big hits through momentum and ensuring he used leverage to bring a guy down. I will say when it comes to bulking up there are a lot of factors you need to consider: Does he have the frame? Can he put on a 15-20lbs that he can carry well? Also weight alone shouldn't be the only factor to consider. Just because one player weighs more than another doesn't mean they're going to be stronger or more powerful. I know that Marshawn Lynch was special, but in his prime he was able to run through guys 30lbs heavier than him.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Projected Starter based on current roster (PFF 2019 Rating), assuming everyone's healthy to start the season:

QB: Russell Wilson (91.2)
HB: Chris Carson (77.9)
WR: Tyler Lockett (77.2)
WR: D.K. Metcalf (69.7)
WR: John Ursua (71.5*)
TE: Will Dissley (79.6)
TE: Greg Olson (66.8+)
T: Duane Brown (74.1)
G: Phil Haynes (64.3#)
C: Justin Britt (62.0)
G: Dj Fluker (60.4)
T: Jamarco Jones (49.2)

DE: LJ Collier (48.6)
DT: Poona Ford (73.3)
DT: Naz Jones (-)
DE: Rasheem Green (57.3)
LB: Cody Barton (48.7)
LB: Bobby Wagner (76.1)
LB: K.J. Wright (62.1)
CB: Shaquill Griffin (77.0)
CB: Tre Flowers (53.9)
CB: Ugo Amadi (54.8)
S: Bradley McDougald (62.0)
S: Quandre Diggs (76.4)

* limited action
+ Carolina Panthers
# Playoffs

The Seahawks have a lot of work to do this offseason.

 

[Screamin12th]

Diggs: You bring up some good points and I agree and disagree with your evaluation on him. I agree that there were a handful of times when he was a step or two short of making a big play, and I wouldn't mind seeing him at nickel given the fact that we don't really have anyone with experience there. I think that his play at FS was what I'd categorize as above average, but not every team can find an Earl Thomas. The part I disagree with is evaluating the speed of a player merely by their 40. Running 40 yards in a straight line is a lot different than turning and closing on a player 10 yards or so away from you. If speed and size were all that matters, Taylor Mays would've been a Hall of Fame caliber player.

Blair: You could be right. I initially thought the same thing thinking that we drafted a "hard hitting" safety who is a hair under 200lbs. The thing I observed about him is that he takes great angles and creates these big hits through momentum and ensuring he used leverage to bring a guy down. I will say when it comes to bulking up there are a lot of factors you need to consider: Does he have the frame? Can he put on a 15-20lbs that he can carry well? Also weight alone shouldn't be the only factor to consider. Just because one player weighs more than another doesn't mean they're going to be stronger or more powerful. I know that Marshawn Lynch was special, but in his prime he was able to run through guys 30lbs heavier than him.

Oh i bring up 40 yard dash times because a free safety tends to play 10-12 yards off the ball and in the Hawks it's normally single high in the middle. the Football field is a little over 50 ( 53.33 yards ) yards wide ( 26.66 yards from center to edge ). So lets say a pass 20 yards down the field on the edges forces the Safety to flip and run, the average ground he has to cover on those type of plays is 30-40 yards. So yes i use 40 yard dash very much in grading out my Safeties. Hawks were one of the worst at giving up explosive pass plays last season. Passes 20 yards or more.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

I'm with you on this. I haven't seen many of the talking heads mention the possibility of cutting Wright, but the money we'd save by cutting him would be incredibly helpful. I also have a sort of blind faith that Cody Barton will be a good starter. Wright had a solid season in 2019, but not worth the $10m cap hit we'd be taking on with him.

I think there's more pros than cons when it comes to moving on from Wright. We save money, Barton gets experience and could possibly be an upgrade. He's on the wrong side of 30 and I doubt will be getting any better.

We all love KJ but he looked slower than normal. He's been a staple for many years but at some point we need fresh legs back there. Let's see what Barton can do with more playing time.