2020-21 The Carter Hart Era PT2(The raising of the cup)

[mall3013]

I know it had t happen, but this makes me sad. I really liked Raffl. With his heart If the had Gee’s skill he’d be a hall of gamer, no doubt, and probably earn a 4.5 score on LAS’s “C” scorecard

Agree. I really enjoyed Raffl on this tram.

 

[mall3013]

Fletcher says they have a lot of decisions to make in the offseason. Apparently said the coaching staff will not be one of the changes.

So there ya go las.

Blows my mind that you wouldn't at least consider changing the PK staff and the defensive coaches though. The coaches have to have at least some some accountability for the putrid PK and the horrid regression from the dmen.

what he says now can change quickly once the season is completed.

 

[awaz]

what he says now can change quickly once the season is completed.

Truth. But as it stands now it looks like Fletcher thinks this is a player problem more than anything. So, should be an interesting summer.

 

[FlyerFinFan]

I know it wasn't much but to be honest an overreaction would have been worse today. Laughton for 3 M isn't horrible and he can still be part of a larger deal if necessary in the summer. The move didn't have to be today.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

This is a pretty good article,, I agree with everything it says, except I disagree with the part about maybe losing an assistant coach or 2, their not totally innocent IMO.

Chuck Fletcher stood by Alain Vigneault and put the Flyers’ players on notice. Good. | Mike Sielski

The Flyers have fired coach after coach through the years. That's not happening now.

www.inquirer.com

 

[awaz]

I know it wasn't much but to be honest an overreaction would have been worse today. Laughton for 3 M isn't horrible and he can still be part of a larger deal if necessary in the summer. The move didn't have to be today.

I'm still pretty worried about the overreaction coming this summer. San Fillipo was saying Patrick to Vegas for a similar return to what they gave up for Janmark. If Fletcher trades Patrick for a 2nd and 3rd round draft pick I will be throwing things.

 

[lasgop8]

Ive got Raffl for the first goal tonight

 

[lasgop8]

I'm still pretty worried about the overreaction coming this summer. San Fillipo was saying Patrick to Vegas for a similar return to what they gave up for Janmark. If Fletcher trades Patrick for a 2nd and 3rd round draft pick I will be throwing things.

I cant understand your overvaluing of Patrick. He has been regressing since before we even drafted him. He went from being the all world first pick and promptly dropped to second prior to the draft. After we drafted him he has done absolutely nothing to increase his value since. He doesn't do anything special such as passing, shooting, skating, hitting, defense, offense etc. If you want to say he doesn't do anything bad fine he doesn't but that doesn't mean you should get a first rounder back for a player who doesn't do anything special.

 

[awaz]

I cant understand your overvaluing of Patrick. He has been regressing since before we even drafted him. He went from being the all world first pick and promptly dropped to second prior to the draft. After we drafted him he has done absolutely nothing to increase his value since. He doesn't do anything special such as passing, shooting, skating, hitting, defense, offense etc. If you want to say he doesn't do anything bad fine he doesn't but that doesn't mean you should get a first rounder back for a player who doesn't do anything special.

He was never all world. Never even projected to be. So holding him to that standard is a good way to be disappointed. Even if there's a razor thin chance he turns out to be a top 6 forward, I'll take that chance over 2nd and 3rd round picks that probability says will likely be a bottom of the lineup player, if they pan out. He's on an ELC and his next contract will probably be 1.5M or less. He's not hurting you to keep him. Might as well keep a cheap player and see what he turns in to. Especially when the alternative is draft picks that won't help the team for 3+ years.

The alternative is to use him as part of a package to get a top of the lineup player now. Something like adding a Flyers 1st round pick and/or prospect(s) to turn him into Ryan Ellis.

 

[awaz]

Like I've said before, if you want to gut the whole team and start over, fine. Deal Patrick for a 2nd and 3rd round pick. Use that 2nd and 3rd round pick to convince Seattle to take Jake. See if you can get a 1st round pick for Sanheim. Deal Myers for scraps, maybe you can get a 3rd round pick for him still. JvR/Giroux have fewer years left so I think you just eat their contracts. Say you can get a 1st rounder and a decent prospect for Giroux if you eat 30% of his contract. JvR, maybe a 2nd rounder and eat 30% of his contract. Hayes is the big problem for your tear down. How do you move a 7.1M for 2025-26 plus a NMC? You pretty much can't.

So then you have Hayes, TK, Couturier, Provorov, Hart, Farabee. Plus some of the young guys come in like York, Frost, Laczynski, Cates, Allison, etc. and you've got a team that has too much talent to really tank, but not enough talent to really do anything. You get a some mid/late 1st round picks. And we start this whole thing over again. They get a ton of decent prospects, but no elite ones. They've got 5M in dead space from JvR and Giroux that hampers their ability to add so they never really get out of no mans land. Then you lose your mind 4 years from now and say TK, Couturier, and Provorov are trash and the Flyers have never won anything with them and they need to be moved. Round and round we go.

The best route to a cup is to try to go for it with this crew and hope the young guys develop into something special. Guys like Patrick have that kind of ceiling. Provorov. Sanheim. Myers. TK. Hart. Ya, it's crazy to 'plan' around hope. But it's their best chance. If it doesn't pan out, we're 5 years down the road and the Flyers can actually go into a REAL rebuild. Giroux/Voracek/JvR/Hayes are either retired or getting to the end of their contracts where you can buy them out or move them. Provorov is at the end of his deal. Hart probably didn't pan out if this didn't work, so his contract isn't a concern. I can't imagine Sanhiem signs for a ton this summer, so his deal isn't an issue. TK is nearing the end, or at at the end of his 5.5M deal. So you can truly suck and get top 10 picks year after year and hope that you hit on them more than Edmonton, Buffalo, et al so we don't spend a decade at the bottom.

 

[lasgop8]

He was never all world. Never even projected to be. o holding him to that standard is a good way to be disappointed. Even if there's a razor thin chance he turns out to be a top 6 forward, I'll take that chance over 2nd and 3rd round picks that probability says will likely be a bottom of the lineup player, if they pan out. He's on an ELC and his next contract will probably be 1.5M or less. He's not hurting you to keep him. Might as well keep a cheap player and see what he turns in to. Especially when the alternative is draft picks that won't help the team for 3+ years.

The alternative is to use him as part of a package to get a top of the lineup player now. Something like adding a Flyers 1st round pick and/or prospect(s) to turn him into Ryan Ellis.

OK i could see your point . IF we add him to a trade and turn it into a a top 2 dman or a star forward but his value was as a center and he isnt even good enough to play top 6 at center so if im another team i dont make a trade for him unless im in a really bad cap situation.

 

[lasgop8]

Like I've said before, if you want to gut the whole team and start over, fine. Deal Patrick for a 2nd and 3rd round pick. Use that 2nd and 3rd round pick to convince Seattle to take Jake. See if you can get a 1st round pick for Sanheim. Deal Myers for scraps, maybe you can get a 3rd round pick for him still. JvR/Giroux have fewer years left so I think you just eat their contracts. Say you can get a 1st rounder and a decent prospect for Giroux if you eat 30% of his contract. JvR, maybe a 2nd rounder and eat 30% of his contract. Hayes is the big problem for your tear down. How do you move a 7.1M for 2025-26 plus a NMC? You pretty much can't.

So then you have Hayes, TK, Couturier, Provorov, Hart, Farabee. Plus some of the young guys come in like York, Frost, Laczynski, Cates, Allison, etc. and you've got a team that has too much talent to really tank, but not enough talent to really do anything. You get a some mid/late 1st round picks. And we start this whole thing over again. They get a ton of decent prospects, but no elite ones. They've got 5M in dead space from JvR and Giroux that hampers their ability to add so they never really get out of no mans land. Then you lose your mind 4 years from now and say TK, Couturier, and Provorov are trash and the Flyers have never won anything with them and they need to be moved. Round and round we go.

The best route to a cup is to try to go for it with this crew and hope the young guys develop into something special. Guys like Patrick have that kind of ceiling. Provorov. Sanheim. Myers. TK. Hart. Ya, it's crazy to 'plan' around hope. But it's their best chance. If it doesn't pan out, we're 5 years down the road and the Flyers can actually go into a REAL rebuild. Giroux/Voracek/JvR/Hayes are either retired or getting to the end of their contracts where you can buy them out or move them. Provorov is at the end of his deal. Hart probably didn't pan out if this didn't work, so his contract isn't a concern. I can't imagine Sanhiem signs for a ton this summer, so his deal isn't an issue. TK is nearing the end, or at at the end of his 5.5M deal.

I love how you predict things and put them down as fact.

Hey heres a crazy thought. Maybe just maybe the tear down works and in 4 years we are raising the cup.

 

[lasgop8]

Shout out to Anthony Stolarz with a 46 save shutout last night for the for the Ducks.

 

[mall3013]

I'll take JvR .to score only goal for us tonight.

 

[lasgop8]

I'll take JvR .to score only goal for us tonight.

I really hope he starts playing again because we are only 4 points back of a playoff spot with 5 games left against the Devils. If we could go on our annual streak towards the end of the season we could slide in.

 

[awaz]

I love how you predict things and put them down as fact.

Hey heres a crazy thought. Maybe just maybe the tear down works and in 4 years we are raising the cup.

You do the same damn thing. So I'll copy your line. Here's a crazy thought. Maybe just maybe the young guys take a step or two forward, Fletcher makes a smart move or two, and we win a cup next year.

 

[lasgop8]

You do the same damn thing. So I'll copy your line. Here's a crazy thought. Maybe just maybe the young guys take a step or two forward, Fletcher makes a smart move or two, and we win a cup next year.

LMAO!!!! I only point out what HASNT been working Just sayin!!!

Not predict the future and post it as fact. Crazy thought maybe a tear down works and we are raising a cup in 4 years

 

[awaz]

OK i could see your point . IF we add him to a trade and turn it into a a top 2 dman or a star forward but his value was as a center and he isnt even good enough to play top 6 at center so if im another team i dont make a trade for him unless im in a really bad cap situation.

Any team that does make that type of trade is betting on his potential. The same way the Flyers would be if they kept him. Teams that were going into a rebuild would make a deal like that. If Nashville didn't go on a 6 game winning streak and wanted to sell at the deadline, or if they decide to rebuild this offseason, trading veteran pieces like Ellis and Ekholm for potential is what they will do.

 

[awaz]

LMAO!!!! I only point out what HASNT been working Just sayin!!!

And you say it's a fact that it won't work in the future. That's why you want to trade everyone. You don't know what level of player 27 year old Sanheim is. Or 25 year old Patrick. Or any of the young guys. You have just as little idea about what those guys look like fully developed as I do on what a "blow it up offseason" does to the next 5 years of the Flyers.

The only difference is you don't have anything to back up "blow it up". So you don't think about what it looks like in reality. You're just tired of the players on the roster and want them gone. You have no idea how that will impact their ability to win a cup in the future. For better or worse, you just want them gone because you don't like them.

 

[lasgop8]

And you say it's a fact that it won't work in the future. That's why you want to trade everyone. You don't know what level of player 27 year old Sanheim is. Or 25 year old Patrick. Or any of the young guys. You have just as little idea about what those guys look like fully developed as I do on what a "blow it up offseason" does to the next 5 years of the Flyers.

The only difference is you don't have anything to back up "blow it up". So you don't think about what it looks like in reality. You're just tired of the players on the roster and want them gone. You have no idea how that will impact their ability to win a cup in the future. For better or worse, you just want them gone because you don't like them.

I only know what hasn't been working and the way we have it now is'n't so tha'ts a fact. The way we have had it for that last 8 years hasnt been working and that's a fact. Blow it up as in fact it hasn't been working.

"Maybe" (not a fact) it will work out and well be raising a cup in 4 years.