2020-21 The Carter Hart Era PT2(The raising of the cup)

[Maverick426h]

^And that's not to ignore the forwards. Backchecking is a major issue too. The Flyers get MAULED in the neutral zone this year. Transitioning to offense against them is easier than running a hot knife through butter. Whoever skates the puck out of the d-zone has years of time to thread a perfect pass to a forward streaking behind the defense. You have to contest that pass or the defense will be sitting ducks. And it shows up night after night, game after game. Last year, during their hot streak, they disrupted everything. Teams rarely exited the d-zone with possession, and when they did the Flyers contested the shit out of the puck in the neutral zone.

That part of their game from last year has completely disappeared. And there's absolutely no reason for that other than the players laying an egg. Niskanen's departure didn't change the way they forecheck or the way the forwards play in the neutral zone.

Agreed. Yes, we have a lot of defensive issues all of the sudden and that's the fault of every player out there, but we absolutely bent over last night at some point and just let the Rangers fuck us repeatedly. There was absolutely zero effort on many of those goals against. It was truly disgusting to watch.

The point is, any team that completely gives up and stops playing in the Nhl is going to get absolutely mauled by the opposing team on any given night.

 

[lasgop8]

Honestly I still think this team has a lot of talent. And I don't think they're that far off. They just have the wrong mix of talent.

Their most talented defenders, Provorov, Sanheim, Myers, and Ghost have nearly the same strengths and weaknesses. They're all good skaters, typically can move the puck really well, have good offensive instincts and have the ability to defend well with their sticks. But they struggle under pressure, they don't take the body ever, and they take every single mistake like it's the end of the world and get mired in slumps like they're all in now where they couldn't find their way out of a paper bag. York and Zamula will be more of the same I expect. And I don't have much faith in the rest of the crew to be anything more than 5-6-7 types.

If they can find a way to get different talent on the blueline, I still think they could compete as soon as next year. But that's a big if. You'd be selling low on the NHL guys now, or giving up a high-end prospect. Unless you move a forward for help on D, which they definitely could. But I don't think Giroux, Voracek, or even JvR brings in what you need to really have a competitive window.

For me, Myers has been the biggest disappointment this year. And based on AV's press conference a week or so ago after he benched him, it was basically for playing a soft game. Pinching without taking the body. Losing board battles. And his game last night was the perfect example of what's wrong with his game. I only watched about the 1st half. But he lost a board battle that led to one goal. He was soft at the net front to allow another goal. He took two penalties, one of which was because he pinched like a timid school girl and casually swung a one-handed poke check at the forward and his stick ramped and caught the guy in the face. That's absolutely not good enough. And it's extremely concerning that he played like that after the coaching staff has lambasted him in public after presumably getting on him game after game in private. He's 6'5 - 215, RH, and can skate. He's the PERFECT fit to what the Flyers need, except he doesn't play the right way and is apparently refusing to change.

Every single player on this team plays a soft game with NAK and TK as the exceptions. That is not conducive to playoff hockey and that's what we are seeing this regular season every game because of the condensed covid schedule.

 

[lasgop8]

^And that's not to ignore the forwards. Backchecking is a major issue too. The Flyers get MAULED in the neutral zone this year. Transitioning to offense against them is easier than running a hot knife through butter. Whoever skates the puck out of the d-zone has years of time to thread a perfect pass to a forward streaking behind the defense. You have to contest that pass or the defense will be sitting ducks. And it shows up night after night, game after game. Last year, during their hot streak, they disrupted everything. Teams rarely exited the d-zone with possession, and when they did the Flyers contested the shit out of the puck in the neutral zone.

That part of their game from last year has completely disappeared. And there's absolutely no reason for that other than the players laying an egg. Niskanen's departure didn't change the way they forecheck or the way the forwards play in the neutral zone.

The only thing I'd put on the coach is that they don't organize their lines to play a structured game. Putting Patrick with Bunnaman and Andreoff is useless. Bunnaman and Andreoff bring energy, forecheck, they'll try to backcheck. But Patrick is thinking offense first. It's completely disjointed so they look terrible. Laughton is having a great year, but don't put him with Giroux and Voracek. Or Hayes and Konecny. What a waste. Put Laughton and Raffl together with another energy guy like NAK and let them forecheck the crap out of people and actually be hard to play against. At least one line would be. If Laughton (and co.) deserve more ice time. Then give that line more ice time, don't move one of them up the lineup. On the other lines, load up your offensive talent and try to outscore their defensive liabilities. Or give them 4th line minute quantities if they don't play the right way. And for god's sake, set a lineup and leave it for a few games.

100% correct on this.

 

[purdue81]

 

[Chris p Bacon]

JVR has the most trade value of the three of them right now. Why would we not trade him instead of letting him go to the Karaken for free?

He gave up last night just as much as the players did, which obviously sucks. His unwillingness to call timeouts drives me nuts. But I'm not there yet. There's roster issues here. They need a shakeup and some attitude.

I was assuming it would be hard to get rid of him via trade because the size of his contract, but if he can be traded for value then I'm all for that too.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

Every single player on this team plays a soft game with NAK and TK as the exceptions. That is not conducive to playoff hockey and that's what we are seeing this regular season every game because of the condensed covid schedule.

And it's a mystery to me why guys like NAK, who seem to play night in and night out get benched in favor of guys like Lindblom or Patrick who are just going through the motions? Oskar needs to take some time off and get his head right IMO, He needs to shake off whatever is grounding his game.

 

[lasgop8]

I was assuming it would be hard to get rid of him via trade because the size of his contract, but if he can be traded for value then I'm all for that too.

His trade value will never be higher than now. Sell high.

 

[lasgop8]

And it's a mystery to me why guys like NAK, who seem to play night in and night out get benched in favor of guys like Lindblom or Patrick who are just going through the motions? Oskar needs to take some time off and get his head right IMO, He needs to shake off whatever is grounding his game.

Much like some posters on this board our coaching staff doesnt take into account heart and only wants to try to put out a fantasy team on the ice. Guys like Pat Maroon (Two cups last two years) and Matt Martin add huge value to a team especially when it gets tough in the playoffs. Hextall drafted all puss players to add to the ones we already had and we wound up with this mess you are seeing

 

[chy1127]

Thankfully, I was at a gathering at a friends house drinking too many Smithwick's Red Ale for St. Patty's day. If they don't respond tonight with energy, grit, etc., then someone of importance has to go (including coaches). I saw the asking price for Rickard Rakell is a 1st and a "step into the lineup" player. I don't want to trade for him, but if G, Jake or JVR as going, a 1st and top prospect would be a good start.

 

[awaz]

Every single player on this team plays a soft game with NAK and TK as the exceptions. That is not conducive to playoff hockey and that's what we are seeing this regular season every game because of the condensed covid schedule.

TK and NAK aren't playing a strong game either this season. That's the mystifying part of this team right now. Every single player outside of Farabee, Couturier, and JvR are playing like absolute crap.

 

[awaz]

And it's a mystery to me why guys like NAK, who seem to play night in and night out get benched in favor of guys like Lindblom or Patrick who are just going through the motions? Oskar needs to take some time off and get his head right IMO, He needs to shake off whatever is grounding his game.

NAK from last year, I would agree with. He hasn't brought anything worthy of a spot in the lineup this year. The only hits he makes are penalties because they're 45 seconds late or he doesn't control his stick and whacks someone in the face. And when he has the puck on his stick he does dumb shit like try to dangle at the blueline and he turns it over because he's not a good enough stickhandler. Odd-man chance against. Goal. Rinse, repeat.

And Oskar was in the press box next to him last night. Patrick you can make the argument though.

 

[awaz]

Thankfully, I was at a gathering at a friends house drinking too many Smithwick's Red Ale for St. Patty's day. If they don't respond tonight with energy, grit, etc., then someone of importance has to go (including coaches). I saw the asking price for Rickard Rakell is a 1st and a "step into the lineup" player. I don't want to trade for him, but if G, Jake or JVR as going, a 1st and top prospect would be a good start.

Fletcher scares the crap out of me tbh. Yes, the flyers need more grit in the lineup. But I'm terrified that he'll trade a good player, on a good deal, and a promising future; for some plug that has grit.

To me, adding grit is the riskiest team-building task there is. So many teams overvalue grit and give up high value assets (or cap hits) to add it and regret it down the road. Please Fletcher, assess the talent/grit mix appropriately. I want to add grit, but don't trade Myers for Savard because "grit". That's crappy asset management. Savard is a rental and Myers is on a good contract and is 24 years old. Get the equivalent value for Myers and find a young guy, signed through more than just this year, that brings what you need.

(Not that Savard is some plug. I think he'd fit in great. Just an example)

 

[chy1127]

Fletcher scares the crap out of me tbh. Yes, the flyers need more grit in the lineup. But I'm terrified that he'll trade a good player, on a good deal, and a promising future; for some plug that has grit.

To me, adding grit is the riskiest team-building task there is. So many teams overvalue grit and give up high value assets (or cap hits) to add it and regret it down the road. Please Fletcher, assess the talent/grit mix appropriately. I want to add grit, but don't trade Myers for Savard because "grit". That's crappy asset management. Savard is a rental and Myers is on a good contract and is 24 years old. Get the equivalent value for Myers and find a young guy, signed through more than just this year, that brings what you need.

(Not that Savard is some plug. I think he'd fit in great. Just an example)

I agree, I want to see grit tonight as an answer for last night. I think the most likely candidates are Gee, Jake or JVR. Hopefully, the days of trading a young guy for an old rental are well behind us.

 

[lasgop8]

Fletcher scares the crap out of me tbh. Yes, the flyers need more grit in the lineup. But I'm terrified that he'll trade a good player, on a good deal, and a promising future; for some plug that has grit.

To me, adding grit is the riskiest team-building task there is. So many teams overvalue grit and give up high value assets (or cap hits) to add it and regret it down the road. Please Fletcher, assess the talent/grit mix appropriately. I want to add grit, but don't trade Myers for Savard because "grit". That's crappy asset management. Savard is a rental and Myers is on a good contract and is 24 years old. Get the equivalent value for Myers and find a young guy, signed through more than just this year, that brings what you need.

(Not that Savard is some plug. I think he'd fit in great. Just an example)

This is why you sign grit as a free agent in the summer. Just like the Blues did in 2019 and TB did last season in signing Pat Maroon both times leading to a Stanley cup victory.

Why this wont work for us is you cant just sign one gritty player and have him night after night sticking up for the whole team It worked for the other two teams because they have several other players that play with grit and we dont.

 

[awaz]

This is why you sign grit as a free agent in the summer. Just like the Blues did in 2019 and TB did last season in signing Pat Maroon both times leading to a Stanley cup victory.

Why this wont work for us is you cant just sign one gritty player and have him night after night sticking up for the whole team It worked for the other two teams because they have several other players that play with grit and we dont.

Even if they don’t trade for him, I hope Savard is all over their radar as a free agent this summer. I think he’s a real good fit for what they need.

And I would support adding more too. I think they could use a true power forward in the top 9. That probably comes through a trade though. They have plenty of top 9 skill guys. Need to move one to make space for a new guy. Plus you need cap space.

 

[lasgop8]

I have a serious question about last nights game.

After getting beat three in a row against the Caps we finally win and beat the Rags in OT.

Why did AV make so many changes after we just won??

 

[purdue81]

I have a serious question about last nights game.

After getting beat three in a row against the Caps we finally win and beat the Rags in OT.

Why did AV make so many changes after we just won??

IMHO he has the tendency to over coach. I brought this up before. And that is another element to the lack of structured hockey we’re seeing now. You can’t constantly change the structure you want to play. It takes time to get in a structure and play it with discipline. If you’re changing every game, no wonder the players are confused and are just throwing in the towel. Every game turns into a first game of the season.

 

[lasgop8]

IMHO he has the tendency to over coach. I brought this up before. And that is another element to the lack of structured hockey we’re seeing now. You can’t constantly change the structure you want to play. It takes time to get in a structure and play it with discipline. If you’re changing every game, no wonder the players are confused and are just throwing in the towel. Every game turns into a first game of the season.

I agree he does tend to overcoach and last nights lineup was exactly that.

The real question is why would you change after a win?

 

[awaz]

I agree he does tend to overcoach and last nights lineup was exactly that.

The real question is why would you change after a win?

I don't think there's a good answer for that tbh. I think he probably regrets it.

More changes incoming. Lyon, Prosser, Twarynski called up from the taxi squad. Hagg put on IR. Typically the Flyers have only called guys up from the taxi squad to put them in games. So I'd expect Twarynski and Prosser to be in the lineup. I also wouldn't be surprised at all if Lyon got the start. And if he does, what an indictment that would be. I think he's played 1 period in the last calendar year.

 

[lasgop8]

I don't think there's a good answer for that tbh. I think he probably regrets it.

More changes incoming. Lyon, Prosser, Twarynski called up from the taxi squad. Hagg put on IR. Typically the Flyers have only called guys up from the taxi squad to put them in games. So I'd expect Twarynski and Prosser to be in the lineup. I also wouldn't be surprised at all if Lyon got the start. And if he does, what an indictment that would be. I think he's played 1 period in the last calendar year.

This is a mess.