2019 Offseason Thread

[tlance]

But in basketball one bad call might get you 2 points, less than 2% of the total. In football it could cost you 20-50% of your points.

I am not budging on this one, and I'm surprised I get so much pushback. I guess football fans REALLY like football, but I just don't care that much. And one reason is all the yellow flags gumming up the game. Even Tom Brady says that's unwatchable

1 or 2 bad calls could also land a franchise star on the bench watching hopelessly.

I certainly agree 1 bad call is more impactful on a football game, simply because you don’t score as often, and 1 call can either negate a score, or allow potential to score.

But, the wrong bad call at the wrong time can similarly ruin a basketball game. And we have all seen it happen.

 

[dtgold88]

Because they pick at 29 or 30 every year.

A lot harder to find difference makers at those spots.

Agreed...which was why I brought up the Suns. Why were Chriss and Bender busts but Booker is a star. And if someone asked Green if he thought he'd have been a bust if Suns took him think he'd have said, "no doubt"?

 

[trojanfan12]

Agreed...which was why I brought up the Suns. Why were Chriss and Bender busts but Booker is a star. And if someone asked Green if he thought he'd have been a bust if Suns took him think he'd have said, "no doubt"?

Imo, it's hard to blame a player being a bust on just one thing.

I think there are a lot of factors that come in to play.

For example, a lot of lottery picks these days are "1 and done" guys. Maybe they peaked in high school/freshman year and had they stayed in school another season or 2, their stock would have fallen.

Some guys get paid and quit working.

Sometimes an organization gets fixated on a player and doesn't see the "red flags".

Some organizations seem to do a better job of developing players than others. The Spurs are a great example of this.

And, of course, some organizations just aren't very good with their picks.

 

[wildturkey]

 

[dtgold88]

Imo, it's hard to blame a player being a bust on just one thing.

I think there are a lot of factors that come in to play.

For example, a lot of lottery picks these days are "1 and done" guys. Maybe they peaked in high school/freshman year and had they stayed in school another season or 2, their stock would have fallen.

Some guys get paid and quit working.

Sometimes an organization gets fixated on a player and doesn't see the "red flags".

Some organizations seem to do a better job of developing players than others. The Spurs are a great example of this.

And, of course, some organizations just aren't very good with their picks.

I'm sure the latter can be true, but to me it's more about the player and his talent combined with how hard he wants to work.

 

[trojanfan12]

I'm sure the latter can be true, but to me it's more about the player and his talent combined with how hard he wants to work.

I agree to a point. But just blaming the player seems a little too simplified, imo.

Sometimes, a guy is considered a bust simply because of where he was picked.

Kwame Brown is considered a bust. But the guy had an 11 year NBA career. If he were a mid to late 2nd round pick, most people probably look at his career and say he was a decent player who made a nice career for himself.

But he was the #1 overall pick, so he's a bust.

 

[dtgold88]

I agree to a point. But just blaming the player seems a little too simplified, imo.

Sometimes, a guy is considered a bust simply because of where he was picked.

Kwame Brown is considered a bust. But the guy had an 11 year NBA career. If he were a mid to late 2nd round pick, most people probably look at his career and say he was a decent player who made a nice career for himself.

But he was the #1 overall pick, so he's a bust.

These are good points. But let's be real, a guy going #1 who ends up a journeyman at best is a bust. Now if your point is that's more on the league as seems nearly everyone thought he was at worse a top 5 pick if memory serves I wouldn't disagree that's possible.

 

[trojanfan12]

These are good points. But let's be real, a guy going #1 who ends up a journeyman at best is a bust. Now if your point is that's more on the league as seems nearly everyone thought he was at worse a top 5 pick if memory serves I wouldn't disagree that's possible.

If memory serves, Kwame was drafted out of high school. He may have peaked in high school and had he gone to college, that would have been seen and he gets drafted lower (or not at all).

If the guy just wasn't as talented as he appeared to be, that's not on him, imo.

Not to pick on the Cavs, but it seems pretty clear that Anthony Bennett was picked way earlier than he should have been. Is that on him or the Cavs? Is he still in the league if he were picked in a more appropriate spot?

Lonzo Ball has been flirting some with the bust label and most seem to think that he will never live up to his #2 status. Is that on him? Or is it on the Lakers for letting themselves get caught up in the hype of getting a local kid to "save the franchise" and picking him at #2 when #10 was probably more appropriate for him?

 

[dtgold88]

If memory serves, Kwame was drafted out of high school. He may have peaked in high school and had he gone to college, that would have been seen and he gets drafted lower (or not at all).

If the guy just wasn't as talented as he appeared to be, that's not on him, imo.

Not to pick on the Cavs, but it seems pretty clear that Anthony Bennett was picked way earlier than he should have been. Is that on him or the Cavs? Is he still in the league if he were picked in a more appropriate spot?

Lonzo Ball has been flirting some with the bust label and most seem to think that he will never live up to his #2 status. Is that on him? Or is it on the Lakers for letting themselves get caught up in the hype of getting a local kid to "save the franchise" and picking him at #2 when #10 was probably more appropriate for him?

Bennett just a bad draft as no one was really worth going #1, and few worthy of going top 5 who anyone would have taken top 5. Oladipo might be it. Someone was taking Bennett top 5 and he'd still have been a bust as he is at best a journeyman.

But not sure this was what Green was saying. I think he was implying if a team like his took Bennett he would have succeeded, and I don't buy that for a second.

 

[trojanfan12]

Bennett just a bad draft as no one was really worth going #1, and few worthy of going top 5 who anyone would have taken top 5. Oladipo might be it. Someone was taking Bennett top 5 and he'd still have been a bust as he is at best a journeyman.

But not sure this was what Green was saying. I think he was implying if a team like his took Bennett he would have succeeded, and I don't buy that for a second.

Bennett may not have. But the Lakers were pretty dysfunctional when Lonzo came into the league. When you factor that in, along with a couple of injuries, maybe he would have developed more quickly had he gone someplace else?

He's changed teams and is still young, so maybe we're about to find out? From what I've seen/heard, his shot already looks better than it did with the Lakers.

Some franchises are just good at developing players. I think we all can agree that the Spurs, at least during the Pop era, have been as good as it gets at developing players...maybe Lonzo (or even Bennett) are better if they had gone there? Not saying they'd get Bennett to live up to being the #1 pick, but at least he might not be the poster boy for busts. Maybe Lonzo looks more like a #2 pick?

 

[dtgold88]

Bennett may not have. But the Lakers were pretty dysfunctional when Lonzo came into the league. When you factor that in, along with a couple of injuries, maybe he would have developed more quickly had he gone someplace else?

He's changed teams and is still young, so maybe we're about to find out? From what I've seen/heard, his shot already looks better than it did with the Lakers.

Some franchises are just good at developing players. I think we all can agree that the Spurs, at least during the Pop era, have been as good as it gets at developing players...maybe Lonzo (or even Bennett) are better if they had gone there? Not saying they'd get Bennett to live up to being the #1 pick, but at least he might not be the poster boy for busts. Maybe Lonzo looks more like a #2 pick?

No disagreement. But my guess is most teams are like the Suns in my earlier example with Bender/Chriss/Booker.....some are busts, some are studs. I doubt you could get Green to say if the Suns picked him he'd have been a bust.

spurs recently had some guy named Anderson picked around 20 who amounted to nothing. Splitter? Eh. But, yeah, they sure as hell got a lot out of Ginobili, Parker and higher up Kawhi.

 

[Battlelyon]

 

[tlance]

@dtgold88

Remember a few weeks ago when I said Trubisky was terrible?

Do you believe me yet?

 

[Black Adam]

@dtgold88

Remember a few weeks ago when I said Trubisky was terrible?

Do you believe me yet?

if the Bears were smart with that draft guess who wouldn't be QB-ing for the Chiefs right now...?

 

[bksballer89]

@dtgold88

Remember a few weeks ago when I said Trubisky was terrible?

Do you believe me yet?

Passed on Mahomes and Watson for this dude lmao

Hate to see it

 

[dtgold88]

@dtgold88

Remember a few weeks ago when I said Trubisky was terrible?

Do you believe me yet?

Cannot say I recall what I said, but certainly never thought he was a star or even close to it. And is looking closer to suck than star no doubt.

 

[dtgold88]

if the Bears were smart with that draft guess who wouldn't be QB-ing for the Chiefs right now...?

They have to be kicking themselves as they could have stood pat and gotten Watson or Mahomes if memory serves...but traded UP and took Trubisky?

Ouch.

 

[bksballer89]

I know we're not supposed to talk football here but @dtgold88 @WiggyRuss Browns are in deep shit if they lose this week. I did not expect Baltimore to win yesterday.

Lose and you're 3 out at pretty much the halfway mark of the season

 

[msgkings322]

Passed on Mahomes and Watson for this dude lmao

Hate to see it

Traded UP to get him

QB evaluation is the toughest thing any GM in any sport has to do

 

[dtgold88]

I know we're not supposed to talk football here but @dtgold88 @WiggyRuss Browns are in deep shit if they lose this week. I did not expect Baltimore to win yesterday.

Lose and you're 3 out at pretty much the halfway mark of the season

would be bad, but schedule still favors the Browns. Of course, I thought that might result in a loss by Bmore to Seattle.

Luckily they won in Bmore and can take any tiebreaker with them with a home W. without that they'd be cooked....if they aren't already.