2019 Offseason Thread

[trojanfan12]

As I said, its not a coincidence that the NBA's current environment, and the loss of Jerry Buss coincided with the 7 year drought. That isn't an accident of fate.

No, it's not a coincidence.

However, I think that taking some time to recover from that and getting their footing again would be expected.

Probably not 7 years worth, but still expected. Jeanie took longer than she should have to give Short Buss the boot (it's her brother, so she likely felt she had to give him more time than she would anyone else) and she probably shouldn't have made Magic President of Basketball Operations, although he did help land Lebron and got rid of one of the albatross contracts that Short Buss saddled them with. But, he could have done that as the "ambassador/closer" that he should have been all along.

They finally seem to have more or less regained some footing and despite the concern of some (myself included) Pelinka seems to know what he's doing (or at least figuring things out).

The jury is still out obviously and if AD walks after the season, they likely have to do some serious restructuring...but things are much better now than they were even 2 years ago.

Also, it's not as if the Lakers have never experienced a down period. This is just the longest amount of time they've ever had between playoff appearances.

Considering there are franchises that don't have 7 years of playoff appearances in their history...I'd say that missing them for 7 years isn't the worst thing.

 

[trojanfan12]

i would like to think that you realize that many of the advantages enjoyed by the Lakers years and years and years ago have evaporated, but it seems that you are intent on ignoring the many salient points i already made in previous posts.

Interesting that you claim this. Ever since Lebron left the Cavs for the Lakers, you have insisted that his going to the Lakers had little or nothing to do with basketball.

If he didn't come here for basketball reasons, then it must have been for reasons other than basketball. Many of which would seem to be reasons that you claim no longer exist.

Ftr, I do agree that some of those advantages have been diminished some over the years, but they do still exist.

 

[shopson67]

7 years ago if asked how long before Lakers' win a playoff series you'd have thought 7+ years seemed like a short time?

Not short by Lakers' standards, but short for the league in general? Sure.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Interesting that you claim this. Ever since Lebron left the Cavs for the Lakers, you have insisted that his going to the Lakers had little or nothing to do with basketball.

If he didn't come here for basketball reasons, then it must have been for reasons other than basketball. Many of which would seem to be reasons that you claim no longer exist.

yup...at age 34

Please dispute any of the following- all of which are reasons why the huge advantages the Lakers enjoyed years ago have all been lessened to a major degree:

---in the early 1990's the Orlando Magic could not even afford to give Shaq the contract the Lakers gave him. Now every team can afford MULTIPLE max contracts because of revenue sharing, the splitting of huge national TV contracts, the splitting of huge amounts of internet revenue, etc.

---Years and years ago hardly any NBA games were nationally televised. You might be able to catch a Lakers or Celtics game on a Sunday. Now you can watch every single game of every single team whether on your TV or the internet and no team is left out.

---years and years ago- you used to have to be in a big market to get the exposure necessary to be a big time endorser. Now, even 10+ years ago, the 2 largest endorsers in the league resided in CLEVELAND and ORLANDO -something that would have been unthinkable years and years ago.

---years and years ago the primary business of many of the team owners was the NBA. Its how they made their money. Now, insanely rich businessmen own these teams backed by corporations like Amway, Carnival Cruise Lines, IBM, Quicken Loans, Cablevision, etc. - the financial advtanges that come with being in a New York or LA or Chicago have been thoroughly mitigated- 2 of the biggest spender in the history of the luxury tax are the CLEVELAND CAVALIERS and OKLAHOMA CITY THUNDER- 2 of the smallest markets in the entire NBA.

---There has never been more talent and more competition in the NBA. Where there used to be like what? 12 teams? 14 teams? and a league that was extremely discriminatory, there are now 30 teams, and talent that comes from all over the globe.

---Old CBA's never had anything like supermax designated player contracts to stay with your hometown team.

 

[shopson67]

i would like to think that you realize that many of the advantages enjoyed by the Lakers years and years and years ago have evaporated, but it seems that you are intent on ignoring the many salient points i already made in previous posts.

As I said, its not a coincidence that the NBA's current environment, and the loss of Jerry Buss coincided with the 7 year drought. That isn't an accident of fate.

That must be why Lebron came, and then more players came to play with Lebron, and Anthony Davis wanted out to go to LA, and Kawhi wanted to come to LA, and Paul George wanted to come to LA (Clippers are getting this advantage too).

The drought also coincided with Dwight's flake-out (and taking a shot with old man Nash), which should've been the next star to join Kobe and extend his run until the next star to replace Kobe was acquired. Kobe's achilles injury that season accelerated the end of his career, which added to the decline. Really, the signing of D'Antoni over Phil (due to Jim Buss' issues with Phil largely) could be seen as the key contributor to all of these failures (not working Dwight into the system properly, shoe-horning the roster into the one system D'Antoni knows how to run, overworking Kobe, etc).

 

[shopson67]

yup...at age 34

Please dispute any of the following- all of which are reasons why the huge advantages the Lakers enjoyed years ago have all been lessened to a major degree:

---in the early 1990's the Orlando Magic could not even afford to give Shaq the contract the Lakers gave him. Now every team can afford MULTIPLE max contracts because of revenue sharing, the splitting of huge national TV contracts, the splitting of huge amounts of internet revenue, etc.

---Years and years ago hardly any NBA games were nationally televised. You might be able to catch a Lakers or Celtics game on a Sunday. Now you can watch every single game of every single team whether on your TV or the internet and no team is left out.

---years and years ago- you used to have to be in a big market to get the exposure necessary to be a big time endorser. Now, even 10+ years ago, the 2 largest endorsers in the league resided in CLEVELAND and ORLANDO -something that would have been unthinkable years and years ago.

---years and years ago the primary business of many of the team owners was the NBA. Its how they made their money. Now, insanely rich businessmen own these teams backed by corporations like Amway, Carnival Cruise Lines, IBM, Quicken Loans, Cablevision, etc. - the financial advtanges that come with being in a New York or LA or Chicago have been thoroughly mitigated- 2 of the biggest spender in the history of the luxury tax are the CLEVELAND CAVALIERS and OKLAHOMA CITY THUNDER- 2 of the smallest markets in the entire NBA.

---There has never been more talent and more competition in the NBA. Where there used to be like what? 12 teams? 14 teams? and a league that was extremely discriminatory, there are now 30 teams, and talent that comes from all over the globe.

---Old CBA's never had anything like supermax designated player contracts to stay with your hometown team.

Don't need to dispute any of that. Please show how any of your "trends" have resulted in free agents targeting teams like Orlando and Cleveland as their preferred destinations (outside of homegrown Lebron returning to Cleveland to assuage his guilt)?

This sums it up perfectly....

 

[trojanfan12]

yup...at age 34

Please dispute any of the following- all of which are reasons why the huge advantages the Lakers enjoyed years ago have all been lessened to a major degree:

---in the early 1990's the Orlando Magic could not even afford to give Shaq the contract the Lakers gave him. Now every team can afford MULTIPLE max contracts because of revenue sharing, the splitting of huge national TV contracts, the splitting of huge amounts of internet revenue, etc.

---Years and years ago hardly any NBA games were nationally televised. You might be able to catch a Lakers or Celtics game on a Sunday. Now you can watch every single game of every single team whether on your TV or the internet and no team is left out.

---years and years ago- you used to have to be in a big market to get the exposure necessary to be a big time endorser. Now, even 10+ years ago, the 2 largest endorsers in the league resided in CLEVELAND and ORLANDO -something that would have been unthinkable years and years ago.

---years and years ago the primary business of many of the team owners was the NBA. Its how they made their money. Now, insanely rich businessmen own these teams backed by corporations like Amway, Carnival Cruise Lines, IBM, Quicken Loans, Cablevision, etc. - the financial advtanges that come with being in a New York or LA or Chicago have been thoroughly mitigated- 2 of the biggest spender in the history of the luxury tax are the CLEVELAND CAVALIERS and OKLAHOMA CITY THUNDER- 2 of the smallest markets in the entire NBA.

---There has never been more talent and more competition in the NBA. Where there used to be like what? 12 teams? 14 teams? and a league that was extremely discriminatory, there are now 30 teams, and talent that comes from all over the globe.

---Old CBA's never had anything like supermax designated player contracts to stay with your hometown team.

And yet, Lebron is a Laker and so is AD.

As I said, some of them have been diminished over the years. But that hasn't been your claim.

Your claim has been that they no longer exist. Yet, if Lebron isn't here for basketball reasons, there must be other ones. Reasons that you have claimed no longer exist.

In short, your post is just 1 long deflection.

 

[WiggyRuss]

and just the plain old

And yet, Lebron is a Laker.

As I said, some of them have been diminished over the years. But that hasn't been your claim.

Your claim has been that they no longer exist. Yet, if Lebron isn't here for basketball reasons, there must be other ones. Reasons that you have claimed no longer exist.

In short, your post is just 1 long deflection.

right. so you cant argue with any of those reasons. Thanks

Also.

from 1960 to 2002 The Lakers and Celtics won 22 of 42 titles. Over half.

from 2003 to 2019 they won 3 of 17 titles. Under a fifth.

For the last 9 years they have won 0.

this is not coincidence. This is the evolution of the league from a podunk discriminatory league with little competition to a vibrant, competitive league with over double the teams, and triple the talent pool.

those institutional advantages have dried up like a puddle in the Sahara.

 

[trojanfan12]

and just the plain old

right. so you cant argue with any of those reasons. Thanks

Also.

from 1960 to 2002 The Lakers and Celtics won 22 of 42 titles. Over half.

from 2003 to 2019 they won 3 of 17 titles. Under a fifth.

For the last 9 years they have won 0.

this is not coincidence. This is the evolution of the league from a podunk discriminatory league with little competition to a vibrant, competitive league with double the teams, and triple the talent pool.

lol

I did argue the points.

As usual, you've been proven to be wrong and as usual you deflect and make excuses.

Perhaps getting a dictionary and looking up the difference between diminished (what I have said) and non-existent (your claim) will help you to understand your hypocrisy.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

7 years is "short term"?

Isn’t that near or around the time frame that you feel it will take the Cavs to do whatever you think they will do?

 

[WiggyRuss]

lol

I did argue the points.

As usual, you've been proven to be wrong and as usual you deflect and make excuses.

Perhaps getting a dictionary and looking up the difference between diminished (what I have said) and non-existent (your claim) will help you to understand your hypocrisy.

my points are 100% valid.

you dont need to be in LA or CHI or NY to be a big time endorser

anybody can watch any game of any team nowadays when before that was impossible

teams couldnt spend with the Lakers back in the day- now the 2 biggest spenders in the luxury tax the last few years are teams from OKC and Cleveland

there never used to be things like supermax designated player extensions

its all there right in front of you

its why the Lakers and Celtics went from winning over half the championships in a 40 year period to being 0 for 9 in the last 9 years with no one believing that streak will end this year.

not a coincidence- the evolution of the league


and i mean- even if y ou are a complete simpleton i would like to think that you would understand the difference between a 14 team league and 30 team league would do for championship odds. LOL.

 

[dtgold88]

Not short by Lakers' standards, but short for the league in general? Sure.

Ok, but you are propping your team up as above "the rest of the league" so how about answer as a fan of the Lakers and not worry about other teams?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

yup...at age 34

Please dispute any of the following- all of which are reasons why the huge advantages the Lakers enjoyed years ago have all been lessened to a major degree:

---in the early 1990's the Orlando Magic could not even afford to give Shaq the contract the Lakers gave him. Now every team can afford MULTIPLE max contracts because of revenue sharing, the splitting of huge national TV contracts, the splitting of huge amounts of internet revenue, etc.

---Years and years ago hardly any NBA games were nationally televised. You might be able to catch a Lakers or Celtics game on a Sunday. Now you can watch every single game of every single team whether on your TV or the internet and no team is left out.

---years and years ago- you used to have to be in a big market to get the exposure necessary to be a big time endorser. Now, even 10+ years ago, the 2 largest endorsers in the league resided in CLEVELAND and ORLANDO -something that would have been unthinkable years and years ago.

---years and years ago the primary business of many of the team owners was the NBA. Its how they made their money. Now, insanely rich businessmen own these teams backed by corporations like Amway, Carnival Cruise Lines, IBM, Quicken Loans, Cablevision, etc. - the financial advtanges that come with being in a New York or LA or Chicago have been thoroughly mitigated- 2 of the biggest spender in the history of the luxury tax are the CLEVELAND CAVALIERS and OKLAHOMA CITY THUNDER- 2 of the smallest markets in the entire NBA.

---There has never been more talent and more competition in the NBA. Where there used to be like what? 12 teams? 14 teams? and a league that was extremely discriminatory, there are now 30 teams, and talent that comes from all over the globe.

---Old CBA's never had anything like supermax designated player contracts to stay with your hometown team.

All of that has merit, but then why do Cavs fans say that tanking is needed for cities like Cleveland and other historical non attractive past FA destinations to build , hopefully contend?

 

[WiggyRuss]

Isn’t that near or around the time frame that you feel it will take the Cavs to do whatever you think they will do?

i dunno but i know one thing- i know they will be a relevant team post-LeBron a lot faster than the Heat. lol

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

and just the plain old

right. so you cant argue with any of those reasons. Thanks

Also.

from 1960 to 2002 The Lakers and Celtics won 22 of 42 titles. Over half.

from 2003 to 2019 they won 3 of 17 titles. Under a fifth.

For the last 9 years they have won 0.

this is not coincidence. This is the evolution of the league from a podunk discriminatory league with little competition to a vibrant, competitive league with over double the teams, and triple the talent pool.

those institutional advantages have dried up like a puddle in the Sahara.

Or, teams like Heat, Cavs and Warriors had the cap space and assets to be the beginning of Super Teams era.
Pretty sure if Lakers would have been in the position the Heat were in 2010 that all 3 going there easily could have happened.

 

[dtgold88]

No, it's not a coincidence.

However, I think that taking some time to recover from that and getting their footing again would be expected.

Probably not 7 years worth, but still expected. Jeanie took longer than she should have to give Short Buss the boot (it's her brother, so she likely felt she had to give him more time than she would anyone else) and she probably shouldn't have made Magic President of Basketball Operations, although he did help land Lebron and got rid of one of the albatross contracts that Short Buss saddled them with. But, he could have done that as the "ambassador/closer" that he should have been all along.

They finally seem to have more or less regained some footing and despite the concern of some (myself included) Pelinka seems to know what he's doing (or at least figuring things out).

The jury is still out obviously and if AD walks after the season, they likely have to do some serious restructuring...but things are much better now than they were even 2 years ago.

Also, it's not as if the Lakers have never experienced a down period. This is just the longest amount of time they've ever had between playoff appearances.

Considering there are franchises that don't have 7 years of playoff appearances in their history...I'd say that missing them for 7 years isn't the worst thing.

I agree Pelinka might not look like the complete boob he did when Magic was "helping" but what has he really done to give you so much confidence? You said Magic was the one who convinced Lebron to come. He was able to make a deal for a guy who insisted LA was the only place he'd go (doubtful the presence of Pelinka was why) and failed to get another max guy and for the second year in a rwo instead filled in with the scraps that were left.

Also could not even convince Ty Lue to be the coach.

 

[dtgold88]

Isn’t that near or around the time frame that you feel it will take the Cavs to do whatever you think they will do?

Great we are in agreement. Cavs = Lakers?

 

[dtgold88]

Or, teams like Heat, Cavs and Warriors had the cap space and assets to be the beginning of Super Teams era.
Pretty sure if Lakers would have been in the position the Heat were in 2010 that all 3 going there easily could have happened.

Now you are starting to get it (though you probably don't realize you are making his point).

 

[dtgold88]

All of that has merit, but then why do Cavs fans say that tanking is needed for cities like Cleveland and other historical non attractive past FA destinations to build , hopefully contend?

It's not just Cavs fans who say this....most fans here realize that's the best route if not a FA destination.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

i dunno but i know one thing- i know they will be a relevant team post-LeBron a lot faster than the Heat. lol

You might think and hope that, but know it?
Based on what?
Their track record of success without LeBron,

You also knew LeBron wouldn’t go to LA alone or knew Heat couldn’t sign Butler, and how many more?

And funny, only ones talking about Heat when discussion involves league are Cavs fans. Wonder why?