2019-20 Quest for the cup(The Carter Hart era begins)

[raptorlife4]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/lightn...vskiy-to-8-year-76-m-extension-133436616.html

It would be nice if we could sign Hart to an 8 year deal now before he gets to the top of his game and makes 8 year 76 million look like peanuts.

Having him so cheap right now is allowing us flexibility.

 

[raptorlife4]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/lightn...vskiy-to-8-year-76-m-extension-133436616.html

It would be nice if we could sign Hart to an 8 year deal now before he gets to the top of his game and makes 8 year 76 million look like peanuts.

He still needs to prove himself.

Im confident in him no doubt but its early

 

[lasgop8]

He still needs to prove himself.

Im confident in him no doubt but its early

If he continues developing at his current rate he will be looking for Price money when he is an RFA in 2 years

 

[awaz]

I'd bridge Hart for sure. I would be terrified of giving any goalie a big contract worth a bunch of money. Not only are they a huge risk, the big contracts really haven't led to success for anyone. It's too much money to spend on a goalie and still fill out a roster with any depth.

Rinne - 7x7M signed in 2011. No cups. 1 finals appearance.
Price - 6x6.5M signed in 2012 and 8x10.5M signed in 2017. No cups. No finals appearances.
Bobrovsky - 4x7.4M signed in 2015. No cups. No finals appearances.
Lundqvist - 7x8.5M signed in 2013. No cups. 1 finals appearance.
Rask - 8x7M signed in 2013. No cups. Only 1 finals appearance.
Holtby - 5x6.1M signed in 2015. 1 cup.
Crawford - 6x6M signed in 2013. 1 cup (hasn't played 40 games since 2016-17 though)
Schneider - 7x6M signed in 2014. No cups. No appearances.
Luongo - 12x5.3M signed in 2009. No cups. 1 finals appearance. (total of 12 playoff games since 2011)
Varlamov - 5x5.9M signed in 2014. No cups. No appearances.

Hellebuyck and Gibson have both signed big contracts lately, but it's too early to really gage them. I would say the best example for it being a good idea would be MA Fleury. 7x5M in 2008 and 4x5.75M in 2014. The Pens won in 2009, 2016 and 2017 while he was on those contracts. BUT, Fleury played 2 playoff games during the '16 run and Murray played every minute of the '17 final (was hurt for some of the playoff run where Fleury stepped in admirably).

Obviously there's lots more going on than just a goalie on a big contract for those teams. But building a team around a big contract goalie has not really worked out very well. Across 11 of the best goalies in the NHL the past decade or so; there's only been 3 cup winners and 7 finals appearances (excluding the 2 where Fleury was a very overpaid backup). That's just not that inspiring to me.

I'm not saying teams necessarily regret those decisions, some of those guys have been outstanding across those contracts, but it's still telling. I don't think goalies should command as high of a cap percentage as some of these guys do. Vasilevski included.

 

[lasgop8]

I'd bridge Hart for sure. I would be terrified of giving any goalie a big contract worth a bunch of money. Not only are they a huge risk, the big contracts really haven't led to success for anyone. It's too much money to spend on a goalie and still fill out a roster with any depth.

Rinne - 7x7M signed in 2011. No cups. 1 finals appearance.
Price - 6x6.5M signed in 2012 and 8x10.5M signed in 2017. No cups. No finals appearances.
Bobrovsky - 4x7.4M signed in 2015. No cups. No finals appearances.
Lundqvist - 7x8.5M signed in 2013. No cups. 1 finals appearance.
Rask - 8x7M signed in 2013. No cups. Only 1 finals appearance.
Holtby - 5x6.1M signed in 2015. 1 cup.
Crawford - 6x6M signed in 2013. 1 cup (hasn't played 40 games since 2016-17 though)
Schneider - 7x6M signed in 2014. No cups. No appearances.
Luongo - 12x5.3M signed in 2009. No cups. 1 finals appearance. (total of 12 playoff games since 2011)
Varlamov - 5x5.9M signed in 2014. No cups. No appearances.

Hellebuyck and Gibson have both signed big contracts lately, but it's too early to really gage them. I would say the best example for it being a good idea would be MA Fleury. 7x5M in 2008 and 4x5.75M in 2014. The Pens won in 2009, 2016 and 2017 while he was on those contracts. BUT, Fleury played 2 playoff games during the '16 run and Murray played every minute of the '17 final (was hurt for some of the playoff run where Fleury stepped in admirably).

Obviously there's lots more going on than just a goalie on a big contract for those teams. But building a team around a big contract goalie has not really worked out very well. Across 11 of the best goalies in the NHL the past decade or so; there's only been 3 cup winners and 7 finals appearances (excluding the 2 where Fleury was a very overpaid backup). That's just not that inspiring to me.

I'm not saying teams necessarily regret those decisions, some of those guys have been outstanding across those contracts, but it's still telling. I don't think goalies should command as high of a cap percentage as some of these guys do. Vasilevski included.

If i am Hart and i continue to develop into a top goalie i would never accept a bridge and if management was asking me to take one id ask to be traded or hold out. But this is a couple of years away.

 

[awaz]

The Bolts are very good, but man do they have a tight cap situation. 5M available this year and still trying to sign Point.

Plus they have 67M already spent for next year, on just 13 players. That's like 1.5M/player left to fill out their roster, excluding the Point contract which will be a heck of a lot more than 1.5M. And they'll have Sergachev as an RFA next summer.

 

[lasgop8]

The Bolts are very good, but man do they have a tight cap situation. 5M available this year and still trying to sign Point.

Plus they have 67M already spent for next year, on just 13 players. That's like 1.5M/player left to fill out their roster, excluding the Point contract which will be a heck of a lot more than 1.5M. And they'll have Sergachev as an RFA next summer.

Even if they lose a couple of players they will still be one of if not the best team in the league.

 

[awaz]

If i am Hart and i continue to develop into a top goalie i would never accept a bridge and if management was asking me to take one id ask to be traded or hold out. But this is a couple of years away.

Only so much leverage RFA's have though. Especially when they don't have arbitration rights, which Hart would not have when his deal is up in July 2021. The Flyers could offer him a 6x6M deal (long term, but well below the value we're predicting he'll be worth) or a 2x5M deal for a bridge. If no other teams give him a better offer sheet, which as we all know is pretty rare, his only other option is to sit out the year. But he doesn't gain any leverage by doing that, he remains a Flyers RFA with no arbitration rights in July 2022. Only by that time he'd have taken a year off from NHL hockey and made lots of enemies in the organization.

Could all be a moot point, hopefully they figure something out that works for both sides. I just wanted to lay out how little power RFA's have when they don't have arbitration rights.

 

[awaz]

Even if they lose a couple of players they will still be one of if not the best team in the league.

True. Just a crazy cap situation.

 

[purdue81]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/lightn...vskiy-to-8-year-76-m-extension-133436616.html

It would be nice if we could sign Hart to an 8 year deal now before he gets to the top of his game and makes 8 year 76 million look like peanuts.

Thinking about perennially dominant goalies over the past 20/30 or so years, and what do we come up with ? Hasek (won cups with Redwings); Brodeur - bonafide; Roy - cup at 20; Lundqvist - zilch. Goaltending is key, no doubt - but it's a 'hot' goalie in the playoff run that gets you to cups --- or a 'once in a generation' dude. Guess we have 2 years to see if Hart is one of those.

 

[lasgop8]

Thinking about perennially dominant goalies over the past 20/30 or so years, and what do we come up with ? Hasek (won cups with Redwings); Brodeur - bonafide; Roy - cup at 20; Lundqvist - zilch. Goaltending is key, no doubt - but it's a 'hot' goalie in the playoff run that gets you to cups --- or a 'once in a generation' dude. Guess we have 2 years to see if Hart is one of those.

I was just figuring locking up Hart now would give us/him some peace of mind and get him cheaper rather than waiting until his contract comes up.I was also figuring since we overpaid AND gave too many years to a scrub like JVR and a mediocre center in Hayes that we should start paying our own good young players.

 

[purdue81]

I was just figuring locking up Hart now would give us/him some peace of mind and get him cheaper rather than waiting until his contract comes up.I was also figuring since we overpaid AND gave too many years to a scrub like JVR and a mediocre center in Hayes that we should start paying our own good young players.

c'mon expansion draft !!!!

 

[lasgop8]

c'mon expansion draft !!!!

 

[lasgop8]

Taking a look at Alain Vigneault’s goalie usage history

 

[lasgop8]

Philadelphia Flyers Top Five Defensive Prospects In The System

 

[lasgop8]

Philadelphia Flyers: What Could Ivan Provorov’s Contract Look Like?

 

[purdue81]

Taking a look at Alain Vigneault’s goalie usage history

Have to believe it will be heavily dependent on how the Flyers come out of the box in the new season... For (insert your specific deity here) sake... can the flyers just please get a point a game over the first 10 ?

 

[chy1127]

Philadelphia Flyers Top Five Defensive Prospects In The System

Friedman at 5 could see some time next year.

 

[lasgop8]

Friedman at 5 could see some time next year.

As of right now we have Morin and Hagg as 7 and 8th dman. What do we do if Freidman comes up next year?

 

[lasgop8]

Have to believe it will be heavily dependent on how the Flyers come out of the box in the new season... For (insert your specific deity here) sake... can the flyers just please get a point a game over the first 10 ?

We start the season in Prague then come home for 1 game then right out to a west coast Canada trip. Not the greatest schedule to get off to a good start.