2018-2019 NBA Regular Season Thread

[CitySushi]

i dont know if he has "fallen off a cliff" but i would certainly not have him in my top 30 players anymore......probably somewhere between 40 and 60.

Yeah I stated as much in a post a bit earlier too. I said two years ago he could be considered in the top 20 range, whereas this year he's much closer to 50. I have no illusions about where he stands currently, but he's also doing 85% or more of what he's done in the past. Which for his role on the team is still outstanding, IMO.

 

[Wamu]

i dont know

Yeah no shit.

 

[dtgold88]

YES. Absolutely. Draymond's impact to the teams is also his mean streak, his drive, attitude and willingness to hold teammates accountable is one of the primary reasons for the Warriors success, past and current.

Also the Cavs would certainly be better. Draymond's leadership within the team would boost their overall production for sure. Everywhere Draymond has gone, his teams have been winners. He's got that in him. He's the ultimate underdog, who thrives off of people discounting them. He'd hold the Cavs young guys accountable and help them grow. He'd boost your teams overall defensive efficiency and you would be in many more competitive games just because of his impact there.

There's no question the Cavs are better and no question the Warriors are worse.

There is no question saying no question is a stretch. GS with Nance there's another team you'd take at even money if they played in a series?

Cavs young guys - especially Sexton - in fact, have nearly all improved as the year has gone along. without Green.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I mean I get we won't see eye to eye on this, but Draymond and Nance are NOT comparable players. They don't do the same things.

Draymond once got a triple double scoring only 4 points. That's the kind of impact player he is. It's not his job to score and when he does, it's completely a bonus. Draymond saw where he could make the biggest impact and where his value was on the team and turned that up to all star level play.

If you swap out Draymond for Blake Griffin right now, I'm talking All-Star level Blake Griffin, are the Warriors better or worse given the construct of their team? I'd say worse. Conversely if you swapped them out are the Pistons better or worse? I'd say worse for sure.

Context is key when valuing players.

It is fair to say they are NOT comparable, Draymond fits a role. Nance does, but it is just different and I think his game is expanding. One player is the 4th or 5th best player on a championship team, the other is the 4th best player on a bad team. I think Nance helps Cleveland more than Draymond would but it is obvious Draymond helps the W's more than pretty much anyone in the league for what his role is.

Sometimes you just can't compare two specific players.

 

[dtgold88]

Not for Draymond it isn't. And the results have been satisfactory.

Yep...because he plays with guys who don't need him to score. No one said he is not a great fit for GS. In fact, I have said he's a great fit for his team.

 

[WiggyRuss]

There is no question saying no question is a stretch. GS with Nance there's another team you'd take at even money if they played in a series?

Cavs young guys - especially Sexton - in fact, have nearly all improved as the year has gone along. without Green.

i dunno if Draymond on a losing team would be a good thing.....could get pretty destructive

 

[CitySushi]

Not exactly that role but who can fill Draymond's role. I have seen Nance dramtically improve his shooting and passing skills though. I would say Draymond definitely more of a liability turnover wise.

For sure, the whole team is a liability turnover wise. Again, I'm not saying Nance is trash, he could end up to be quite a nice player. And yes Draymond is a huge beneficiary of playing with two of the greatest shooters of all time. There's no denying that. But everyone forgets to remember the Warriors are who they are because of Draymond. Every team in the league looking for a 4 who can guard multiple positions and facilitate is because they're trying to copy Draymond. For as much as teams are trying to find the next Steph or Klay, they're also trying to find the next Draymond just as much.

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah I stated as much in a post a bit earlier too. I said two years ago he could be considered in the top 20 range, whereas this year he's much closer to 50. I have no illusions about where he stands currently, but he's also doing 85% or more of what he's done in the past. Which for his role on the team is still outstanding, IMO.

85% more? With Durant AND cousins on the team?

 

[dtgold88]

i dunno if Draymond on a losing team would be a good thing.....could get pretty destructive

I don't think it's even a question. The idea his level of crazy would just turn bad or mediocre players into winners is absurd to me.

 

[CitySushi]

i dunno if Draymond on a losing team would be a good thing.....could get pretty destructive

I think Draymond's attitude is a necessary evil. Once of the best stories about him that I love is that in his rookie year during the Summer League practices, they assigned him Jeremy Tyler as his vet. During the practices Draymond saw that Tyler was coasting and doing ridiculous shit. He called him out in front of the entire team and told him he'd be out of the league soon and he wanted a new vet.

Dude is just a winner. He see's winners and he's able to get the most out of guys that want to get to his level. You don't think he'd have an immediate, positive, impact on a guy like Collin Sexton right now? I think he'd be amazing for your team and getting guys to expand and evolve their games. Coaches have also said Draymond's got a future in coaching if he ever wanted it, easily.

 

[CitySushi]

85% more? With Durant AND cousins on the team?

85% doesn't mean numbers. Fixation on statistics is why we're having this discussion on his value in the first place, lol.

 

[msgkings322]

Sorry @Wamu but you made a claim I said Nance > Green when I specifically said - over and over - this is not the case.

continue your Yosemite sam-like meltdown if you like, though.

I don't think you even know who Yosemite Sam is because you bring him up as a comparison a lot and never correctly

 

[dtgold88]

For sure, the whole team is a liability turnover wise. Again, I'm not saying Nance is trash, he could end up to be quite a nice player. And yes Draymond is a huge beneficiary of playing with two of the greatest shooters of all time. There's no denying that. But everyone forgets to remember the Warriors are who they are because of Draymond. Every team in the league looking for a 4 who can guard multiple positions and facilitate is because they're trying to copy Draymond. For as much as teams are trying to find the next Steph or Klay, they're also trying to find the next Draymond just as much.

One could say most teams are also looking for 4s and 5s who can shoot these days. As has been mentioned (by you, as well) he is perfect for his own team because they have 3 (now 4) other starters who can shoot from outside. For some offenses that is as important as guarding multiple positions.

 

[dtgold88]

85% doesn't mean numbers. Fixation on statistics is why we're having this discussion on his value in the first place, lol.

Great...feel free to go into detail where you came up with the 85%.

 

[dtgold88]

I don't think you even know who Yosemite Sam is because you bring him up as a comparison a lot and never correctly

 

[CitySushi]

One could say most teams are also looking for 4s and 5s who can shoot these days. As has been mentioned (by you, as well) he is perfect for his own team because they have 3 (now 4) other starters who can shoot from outside. For some offenses that is as important as guarding multiple positions.

@WiggyRuss

It's easier to find a big who can shoot on the perimeter than one who can defend it. Wiggy's biggest arguments about Tristan Thompson's value in the past is his ability to defend the perimeter. No one's argued that. Ask Wiggy if there's any value in being able to guard the perimeter as a big.

And on top of that Draymond, in particular, guards 5 positions. So there's that.

 

[CitySushi]

Great...feel free to go into detail where you came up with the 85%.

85% is what his role encompasses on the team. What he's expected to bring on a given night versus what he produces. Again, his offense and scoring have always been BONUS for the team. It's not essential it's a luxury. 60% of Draymond's value to the team is his defense. He brings that every night, but even there I'm docking him about 5% because he hasn't been DPOY Draymond this year, but still incredibly valuable. Of the 40% that goes towards his offense, 25% of that is his facilitating on the offense, which he's been doing spectacularly again this year. The remaining 15%, i'm only giving him 5% to his scoring.

55+25+5 = 85% of his expected role.

 

[dtgold88]

I don't think you even know who Yosemite Sam is because you bring him up as a comparison a lot and never correctly

The irony could not be more comical here. The guy cried that he was just trying to be funny in an earlier post. Then gets worked up because I mentioned he should say I claimed Nance > Pippen? As though I really think he said that?

sorry, but ya gotta love this forum.

 

[dtgold88]

@WiggyRuss

It's easier to find a big who can shoot on the perimeter than one who can defend it. Wiggy's biggest arguments about Tristan Thompson's value in the past is his ability to defend the perimeter. No one's argued that. Ask Wiggy if there's any value in being able to guard the perimeter as a big.

And on top of that Draymond, in particular, guards 5 positions. So there's that.

OK, but Nance is not exactly a bad defender. Moves well and very athletic.

 

[CitySushi]

Sometimes you just can't compare two specific players.

This is what I've been saying all along. It's a horrible comp because these two guys aren't measurable in their impact the same way.