2018-2019 NBA Regular Season Thread

[Shanemansj13]

I got 53 Rainbows, 4 dislikes, and 18 bullshit. I’ve given 27 rainbows, 1 bullshit and 0 dislikes.

But in my defense about 20 of the rainbows I have given to @Shanemansj13 because it’s a source of pride for him.

I have 437 rainbows and I guarantee CL, Nos and trolls like SJ have given about 95% of those lol

 

[WiggyRuss]

Your level of butt hurt is unreal.

I said small market teams are lucky to have a 2-3 year window. That is true. It was also not specific to the Indians. It was a general comment.

Yet, you choose to jump on a small part of my quote, overreact and take it out of context because you want so badly to "get me".

You need to chill out.

Your post was idiotic though. It was generalized bullshit showed exactly zero understanding of the situation. Cleveland's "window" will be open from 2016 to 2021-2022. Over-spending for any 2-3 and then "pinching pennies" makes no sense. This is a team that has won the most games in the American League the last 6 years, and still has AT LEAST 3 years of having elite players. Overspending for any short period and then cutting back would have meant nothing short of having to gut the team well before its window closed. In short- you pretty much know dick about the Indians, their "window", their future commitments, or basically anything else.

 

[dtgold88]

again you have no idea what you are talking about. And I mean- talking about the Indians like you have any clue just makes me laugh

2-3 year window?

The Tribe's "window" opened in 2016 when they went to the World Series.

The Tribe has AT LEAST 2 YEARS AFTER this year. They will without a doubt have AT LEAST a 5-6 year "window" they are trying to sustain.

Not that you would have any clue, but

Corey Kluber is signed for 2 more years AFTER this year.
Lindor is signed for 2 more years AFTER this year
Ramirez is signed for 4 more years AFTER this year
Carlos Carrasco is signed up for 3 more years AFTER this year
Bauer is signed for 1 more year AFTER this year
Clevinger is signed for 4 more years AFTER this year
Bieber is signed for 5 more years AFTER this year
Brad Hand is signed for 2 more years AFTER this year

all at below, (or WAY below) market value.

If they would have taken your advice, and went balls to the wall when their window opened in 2016- for "2 or 3 years" , their contention window would have been slammed shut as early as 2017--as that would have been a "two year" window (and 2018 a "3 year" window- necessitating a tear down either LAST year or this year)

I will take the 6 year window. Not the 2 year window that would have been hypothetically gone before LAST season even started.

Guessing he meant what's left of the window and also think it's 2-3 years. These players were earning a lot less in 2016 so there was no need to go "balls to the wall" then. But now there is.

and what did we do instead? Scaled back on payroll. such a shame.

 

[dtgold88]

Your post was idiotic though. It was generalized bullshit showed exactly zero understanding of the situation. Cleveland's "window" will be open from 2016 to 2021-2022. Over-spending for any 2-3 and then "pinching pennies" makes no sense. This is a team that has won the most games in the American League the last 6 years, and still has AT LEAST 3 years of having elite players. Overspending for any short period and then cutting back would have meant nothing short of having to gut the team well before its window closed. In short- you pretty much know dick about the Indians, their "window", their future commitments, or basically anything else.

You are right it did go longer than the usual 2-3 years, but does seem like 2-3 years are left, right, and sadly they don't yet have a title to show for it.

do you think when Lindor, Kluber, Bauer et al are gone in 2-3 years they will still be in the same spot they are now?

 

[Shanemansj13]

You are right it did go longer than the usual 2-3 years, but does seem like 2-3 years are left, right, and sadly they don't yet have a title to show for it.

do you think when Lindor, Kluber, Bauer et al are gone in 2-3 years they will still be in the same spot they are now?

Bauer could be gone next year, he doesn't want to sign long term contracts, just one year deals so we will see how that works out. I am hoping they make some big moves at the deadline which is a long way away. They do have some injuries now but this current format of the lineup isn't very good tbh.

 

[dtgold88]

I didn't even know that stuff was trackable.

Brb.....

I have 30 negative ratings.

15 dislikes and 15 bullshits.

Fuck y'all....lol

Just want to point out despite the adversarial discussions you've had with me at times none of those are from me.

Just sayin'

 

[WiggyRuss]

Guessing he meant what's left of the window and also think it's 2-3 years. These players were earning a lot less in 2016 so there was no need to go "balls to the wall" then. But now there is.

and what did we do instead? Scaled back on payroll. such a shame.

did you see Francona just signed on through 2022?

he didnt sign on for a rebuild.

Clevinger, Bieber and Carrasco are here for the long haul - and right there you have a great rotation. Jose Ramirez is here for the long haul. They have a bunch of prospects that are in the low minors right now with high ceilings.

I just trust the Indians. To have a team like the Indians have the best record in the AL over the last 6 years, with what at times was some pretty bad luck is telling. Not only that, but they have at least a 3 year window where the only significant player that will leave is Bauer.

Not only that but Nolan Jones and Triston McKenzie are high level prospects that will be around soon.

And I know you are down about the outfield, but i wouldnt put it passed the Tribe to have that figured out. A lot of names- Naquin, Zimmer, Luplow, Bauers, Johnson, Mercado.........this is a team tat has made a LOT of great trades that didnt look like shit at the time but hit big in retrospect. I think Bauer's is going to be a very solid pickup, and I think Johnson will also surprise.

Zimmer was a top prospect before getting hurt and still is not someone I would write off.

the one guy that I wish they would have brought back is Brantley- on the two year deal. But I think the strategy of pulling back a little this year while the division is still down, and developing some of these young guys before the division gets better (with the White Sox ascending and the Twins getting better- but the Royals and Tigers still miles away), was prob. the right call.

 

[dtgold88]

Bauer could be gone next year, he doesn't want to sign long term contracts, just one year deals so we will see how that works out. I am hoping they make some big moves at the deadline which is a long way away. They do have some injuries now but this current format of the lineup isn't very good tbh.

I agree....hell, if things don't go well this year Bauer might go at the deadline. Also wouldn't shock me if Lindor gets moved next offseason. For sure I think he'll go before the final year he is under control.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Bauer could be gone next year, he doesn't want to sign long term contracts, just one year deals so we will see how that works out. I am hoping they make some big moves at the deadline which is a long way away. They do have some injuries now but this current format of the lineup isn't very good tbh.

No doubt about it.

The thing is- we dont need the rotation that we have right now. I was FOR trading Bauer in the offseason even though I think hes gonna finish top 3 in the Cy Young race.

You dont need 5 starters in the post season and the Tribe without a doubt has 5 guys sthat I would feel comfortable giving the ball to in a playoff series.

I was hoping that they could trade Bauer or Kluber to the Reds for a package that included Senzel and maybe Winker--- but the Reds were not going to pay that price apparently.

With how down the division is, this was the year to pull back a little and get some development done. They will be better for it in the long run.

 

[dtgold88]

did you see Francona just signed on through 2022?

he didnt sign on for a rebuild.

Clevinger, Bieber and Carrasco are here for the long haul - and right there you have a great rotation. Jose Ramirez is here for the long haul. They have a bunch of prospects that are in the low minors right now with high ceilings.

I just trust the Indians. To have a team like the Indians have the best record in the AL over the last 6 years, with what at times was some pretty bad luck is telling. Not only that, but they have at least a 3 year window where the only significant player that will leave is Bauer.

Not only that but Nolan Jones and Triston McKenzie are high level prospects that will be around soon.

And I know you are down about the outfield, but i wouldnt put it passed the Tribe to have that figured out. A lot of names- Naquin, Zimmer, Luplow, Bauers, Johnson.........this is a team tat has made a LOT of great trades that didnt look like shit at the time but hit big in retrospect. I think Bauer's is going to be a very solid pickup, and I think Johnson will also surprise.

Zimmer was a top prospect before getting hurt and still is not someone I would write off.

the one guy that I wish they would have brought back is Brantley- on the two year deal. But I think the strategy of pulling back a little this year while the division is still down, and developing some of these young guys before the division gets better (with the White Sox ascending and the Twins getting better- but the Royals and Tigers still miles away), was prob. the right call.

How do you know he didn't sign on for a rebuild? He generally likes it here and the guys to whom he reports.

I trust the FO to do whatever they can with what little Dolan allows. Also agree it's POSSIBLE someone emerges in the OF as they won most of the deals they made in the past (at least they found gems). But those were deals for stars like CC and Lee. Gomes a solid player. Not a star. Bauers was acquired for Diaz....who BTW is off to a decent start in TB (very small sample size, I get it).

You really see Bauer, Kluber, Lindor here more than 2-3 seasons? JRam has 3-4 at most. Why not go nuts and keep payroll the same (or go a little higher) AND keep those young guys you mentioned to still have a chance after these guys all leave?

 

[dtgold88]

No doubt about it.

The thing is- we dont need the rotation that we have right now. I was FOR trading Bauer in the offseason even though I think hes gonna finish top 3 in the Cy Young race.

You dont need 5 starters in the post season and the Tribe without a doubt has 5 guys sthat I would feel comfortable giving the ball to in a playoff series.

I was hoping that they could trade Bauer or Kluber to the Reds for a package that included Senzel and maybe Winker--- but the Reds were not going to pay that price apparently.

With how down the division is, this was the year to pull back a little and get some development done. They will be better for it in the long run.

But how about not pull back to give yourself a better chance assuming you make the postseason? Nothing crazy, but 1-2 year deals for 2 among Brantley, Gonzalez and Cruz?

 

[WiggyRuss]

You are right it did go longer than the usual 2-3 years, but does seem like 2-3 years are left, right, and sadly they don't yet have a title to show for it.

do you think when Lindor, Kluber, Bauer et al are gone in 2-3 years they will still be in the same spot they are now?

well Kluber has 2 years after this one and Lindor 2 years after this one.

It obviously depends on how they restock. Clevinger, Bieber and Carrasco would certainly be the basis of a great rotation- and the Tribe's best prospect is a McKenzie who profiles as a high level starter.

not only that- but its so hard to plan more than 3 years ahead in baseball- especially with pitching and how it gets hurt. I do know that their track record and development of pitchers is as good as any team out there.

and i agree with you that Lindor might be dealt at some point ---- but they just need to make the right deal- they got Brantley for Sabathia, they got Carrasco for Cliff Lee, ---- they know how to make that type of deal work----- itll be awful to see Lindor go but thats just the reality of where the Tribe is at. If they REALLY REALLY wanted to i am sure they could devote 34M of their payroll to Lindor - but thats not whats good for the overall team.

 

[tlance]

Your post was idiotic though. It was generalized bullshit showed exactly zero understanding of the situation. Cleveland's "window" will be open from 2016 to 2021-2022. Over-spending for any 2-3 and then "pinching pennies" makes no sense. This is a team that has won the most games in the American League the last 6 years, and still has AT LEAST 3 years of having elite players. Overspending for any short period and then cutting back would have meant nothing short of having to gut the team well before its window closed. In short- you pretty much know dick about the Indians, their "window", their future commitments, or basically anything else.

Is it though?

Their window might be longer than most because of how well the club has done in developing Ramirez, Lindor and really all of their starting pitching staff, then how well the FO has done locking in those pitchers to affordable deals.

It doesn't change the fact that there are obvious holes in the bullpen bridging to Hand and in the batting order beyond the superstars and the very solid Carlos Santana.

They had opportunities to invest in solid, not too expensive vets like Brantley to fill some of those holes and instead they cut payroll and have engaged in trade talks to possibly move either Kluber or Bauer and cut payroll further.

Sorry, but that is not how contenders should act. Because pinching pennies right now makes it a lot less likely that they actually win come October and November. Depth is pretty darn important in baseball and I don't see much for Cleveland. Maybe they plan to address their issues with midseason moves. And if so, then their plan could work just fine. There are big questions though, and it seems like most Indian fans are skeptical.

But the irony here is that this is almost EXACTLY what you blasted Pat Riley for doing with the Heat during the end of their LeBron era and the opposite of what you praise Gilbert for.

In typical Wiggy fashion, Cleveland teams can do no wrong. And if you can invent a narrative to blast me, you will. Even if it means making yourself look like the biggest hypocrite in the history of the world.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Just want to point out despite the adversarial discussions you've had with me at times none of those are from me.

Just sayin'

Almost all of mine are from the political forum.

 

[WiggyRuss]

How do you know he didn't sign on for a rebuild? He generally likes it here and the guys to whom he reports.

I trust the FO to do whatever they can with what little Dolan allows. Also agree it's POSSIBLE someone emerges in the OF as they won most of the deals they made in the past (at least they found gems). But those were deals for stars like CC and Lee. Gomes a solid player. Not a star. Bauers was acquired for Diaz....who BTW is off to a decent start in TB (very small sample size, I get it).

You really see Bauer, Kluber, Lindor here more than 2-3 seasons? JRam has 3-4 at most. Why not go nuts and keep payroll the same (or go a little higher) AND keep those young guys you mentioned to still have a chance after these guys all leave?

I dont see Bauer, Kluber, Lindor here for more than 2-3 seasons, but that certainly does not mean the Indians wont be competitive when those guys leave/are traded.

If you would have taken that approach when the window opened and spent over your budget the team would have to be gutted now and you wouldnt have what they still have- a team that is still top 10 in the majors with the best rotation in baseball, a top 10 closer, and 2 of the top 10 position players in the league.

And right behind Kluber, especially with him getting older, is Clevinger and Bieber who certainly seem like they can become the next stalwarts of the rotation-- Carrasco is signed up here for what? 4 more years? McKenzie is their best prospect.

I dont understand all this doom and gloom. The Tribe is what? 12-1 to win the World Series, and has as good a 3 year outlook as any team out there.

I dont know why you would assume that they wont be competitive going forward with their past track record, how well they have done in trades, how well they develop.

Its not by accident that guys like Kluber, and Clevinger and Bauer were all given up on by other organizations, came ot the Tribe and thrived. Yes- its partly great talent, but its also development, how the team is run, the manager, etc.....

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I dont see Bauer, Kluber, Lindor here for more than 2-3 seasons, but that certainly does not mean the Indians wont be competitive when those guys leave/are traded.

If you would have taken that approach when the window opened and spent over your budget the team would have to be gutted now and you wouldnt have what they still have- a team that is still top 10 in the majors with the best rotation in baseball, a top 10 closer, and 2 of the top 10 position players in the league.

And right behind Kluber, especially with him getting older, is Clevinger and Bieber who certainly seem like they can become the next stalwarts of the rotation-- Carrasco is signed up here for what? 4 more years? McKenzie is their best prospect.

I dont understand all this doom and gloom. The Tribe is what? 12-1 to win the World Series, and has as good a 3 year outlook as any team out there.

I dont know why you would assume that they wont be competitive going forward with their past track record, how well they have done in trades, how well they develop.

Its not by accident that guys like Kluber, and Clevinger and Bauer were all given up on by other organizations, came ot the Tribe and thrived. Yes- its partly great talent, but its also development, how the team is run, the manager, etc.....

On the bright side the rest of the central is dog shit so you all have that going also

 

[dtgold88]

well Kluber has 2 years after this one and Lindor 2 years after this one.

It obviously depends on how they restock. Clevinger, Bieber and Carrasco would certainly be the basis of a great rotation- and the Tribe's best prospect is a McKenzie who profiles as a high level starter.

not only that- but its so hard to plan more than 3 years ahead in baseball- especially with pitching and how it gets hurt. I do know that their track record and development of pitchers is as good as any team out there.

and i agree with you that Lindor might be dealt at some point ---- but they just need to make the right deal- they got Brantley for Sabathia, they got Carrasco for Cliff Lee, ---- they know how to make that type of deal work----- itll be awful to see Lindor go but thats just the reality of where the Tribe is at. If they REALLY REALLY wanted to i am sure they could devote 34M of their payroll to Lindor - but thats not whats good for the overall team.

But Kluber will be well past $20 mil per, right, and Lindor probably $15 mil or more. I do like Clev, Bieber and Carrasco, but let's pump the breaks on McKenzie. He is as likely to be Albie Lopez at this point as he is a quality starter.

I also said they have been great in these deals, but you are ignoring they not only didn't keep payroll the same in a year they should contend, but they cut payroll.....by a lot. Come on.

 

[dtgold88]

Almost all of mine are from the political forum.

Have to say I've never given one of those...never even knew a rainbow was a bad thing.

I guess I need to make sure the first one who gets one from me is well deserved.

 

[Shanemansj13]

How do you know he didn't sign on for a rebuild? He generally likes it here and the guys to whom he reports.

I trust the FO to do whatever they can with what little Dolan allows. Also agree it's POSSIBLE someone emerges in the OF as they won most of the deals they made in the past (at least they found gems). But those were deals for stars like CC and Lee. Gomes a solid player. Not a star. Bauers was acquired for Diaz....who BTW is off to a decent start in TB (very small sample size, I get it).

You really see Bauer, Kluber, Lindor here more than 2-3 seasons? JRam has 3-4 at most. Why not go nuts and keep payroll the same (or go a little higher) AND keep those young guys you mentioned to still have a chance after these guys all leave?

I don't trust the FO. Other than making a couple BP moves the last couple years they haven't done much. Encarnacion was good while lasted but like Wiggy said trading one of these SP's for young talented position players might be the way to go. The FO has made some big moves but they will refuse to pay players and increase this payroll. As far as the current outfielders it isn't exactly great, seems like Zimmer is hurt all the time like Lonnie was when he was here.

 

[dtgold88]

I dont see Bauer, Kluber, Lindor here for more than 2-3 seasons, but that certainly does not mean the Indians wont be competitive when those guys leave/are traded.

If you would have taken that approach when the window opened and spent over your budget the team would have to be gutted now and you wouldnt have what they still have- a team that is still top 10 in the majors with the best rotation in baseball, a top 10 closer, and 2 of the top 10 position players in the league.

And right behind Kluber, especially with him getting older, is Clevinger and Bieber who certainly seem like they can become the next stalwarts of the rotation-- Carrasco is signed up here for what? 4 more years? McKenzie is their best prospect.

I dont understand all this doom and gloom. The Tribe is what? 12-1 to win the World Series, and has as good a 3 year outlook as any team out there.

I dont know why you would assume that they wont be competitive going forward with their past track record, how well they have done in trades, how well they develop.

Its not by accident that guys like Kluber, and Clevinger and Bauer were all given up on by other organizations, came ot the Tribe and thrived. Yes- its partly great talent, but its also development, how the team is run, the manager, etc.....

well how about do something crazy and have a higher budget? Take advantage of maybe the best FO and SPs in the game? That's the problem here....the budget is too low for a contending team.

I cannot understand why you would be an apologist for Dolan.