2018-2019 NBA Regular Season Thread

[CitySushi]

Coaches get blamed too often for X’s and O’s play calling which is usually more about execution. Coaches are primarily responsible, IMO, for keeping playing on point and not letting the locker room become a problem.

Phil Jackson didn’t win a billion titles because his triangle offense was so incredible. He won them because he kept his Hall of Famers from killing each other.

Same with Kerr to an extent. His X's and O's were incredible in 2015, suffered in 2016 and really hasn't been the same since. I think his injury and time away from the team really hurt his momentum in this aspect, but his biggest strength is and always will be his championship experience as a former player. He gains the immediate respect of the locker room and can relate to the players gripes with each other. I'm sure all the stuff we've heard about the Warriors is in reality only a fraction of what is actually taking place behind the scenes. David West was on one of those morning sports talk shows, I think the one with Nick Wright and Cris Carter and said the Warriors had a lot of internal issues last year that no one heard about.

Kerr is a main driving force for this. You don't hear him throw guys under the bus. He doesn't comment on hot button topics. He's able to keep the guys focused for the most part on the task at hand.

 

[dtgold88]

don't shoot the messenger and a couple years old (and random writer), but found this on Klay.....

So Klay is usually considered an elite or at least above average defender. Having watched most of the Warrior's games, I have never been terribly impressed by his defense. So I decided to look at the stats.

According to ESPN's Real Plus-Minus, Klay is -2.85 on defense, which is AWFUL. That's 6th-worst in the entire NBA. Last year he was -0.61 and the year before he was -0.72. Again, well below average.

Klay's Defensive Box Plus-Minus the last 3 years have been -2.9, -2.2 and -1.0. The league average is +0.0. He's had a negative DBPM every year of his career.

His Defensive Rating this year is 110, which is also well below average. The previous two years he was at 107 and 104. The league average is about 102-103.

I had to start digging to find any stat that showed any aspect's of Klay's defense to be even average. The guys Klay defends normally shoot 44.9%. When he defends them they shoot 45.0%. That would imply he's an average on-ball defender.

Now guys with a great defensive reputation like Kawhi Leonard, Tim Duncan, Draymond Green, Andrew Bogut, Andre Iguodala, Marc Gasol, Anthony Davis, LeBron James etc all do great in all of the stats mentioned. And guys with a terrible defensive reputation like Kyrie Irving do awful in the defensive stats.

How is it that Klay could be an "elite" or "good" defender and yet have some of the worst defensive stats in the league? How do you even consider him an average defender? I've rarely seen someone's reputation so at odds with the stats.

 

[dtgold88]

Same with Kerr to an extent. His X's and O's were incredible in 2015, suffered in 2016 and really hasn't been the same since. I think his injury and time away from the team really hurt his momentum in this aspect, but his biggest strength is and always will be his championship experience as a former player. He gains the immediate respect of the locker room and can relate to the players gripes with each other. I'm sure all the stuff we've heard about the Warriors is in reality only a fraction of what is actually taking place behind the scenes. David West was on one of those morning sports talk shows, I think the one with Nick Wright and Cris Carter and said the Warriors had a lot of internal issues last year that no one heard about.

Kerr is a main driving force for this. You don't hear him throw guys under the bus. He doesn't comment on hot button topics. He's able to keep the guys focused for the most part on the task at hand.

I'm sure he's a solid coach, but weren't they something like 41-5 with walton and Mike Brown running the show?

 

[CitySushi]

don't shoot the messenger and a couple years old (and random writer), but found this on Klay.....

So Klay is usually considered an elite or at least above average defender. Having watched most of the Warrior's games, I have never been terribly impressed by his defense. So I decided to look at the stats.

According to ESPN's Real Plus-Minus, Klay is -2.85 on defense, which is AWFUL. That's 6th-worst in the entire NBA. Last year he was -0.61 and the year before he was -0.72. Again, well below average.

Klay's Defensive Box Plus-Minus the last 3 years have been -2.9, -2.2 and -1.0. The league average is +0.0. He's had a negative DBPM every year of his career.

His Defensive Rating this year is 110, which is also well below average. The previous two years he was at 107 and 104. The league average is about 102-103.

I had to start digging to find any stat that showed any aspect's of Klay's defense to be even average. The guys Klay defends normally shoot 44.9%. When he defends them they shoot 45.0%. That would imply he's an average on-ball defender.

Now guys with a great defensive reputation like Kawhi Leonard, Tim Duncan, Draymond Green, Andrew Bogut, Andre Iguodala, Marc Gasol, Anthony Davis, LeBron James etc all do great in all of the stats mentioned. And guys with a terrible defensive reputation like Kyrie Irving do awful in the defensive stats.

How is it that Klay could be an "elite" or "good" defender and yet have some of the worst defensive stats in the league? How do you even consider him an average defender? I've rarely seen someone's reputation so at odds with the stats.

Yeah I've seen his stats before and it really puzzles me as well. The only thing for me is that defense is an incredibly difficult thing to measure with statistics. Perhaps Klay isn't as good as we think he is. That's certainly a possibility. But perhaps Klay is also an outlier on the metrics on the defensive stats.

There's on potential reason I could see his stats not being good is that because each night he's posed with guarding the oppositions best wing player. He doesn't get a night off. So on a night where say he could up his defensive metrics by guarding a guy like Andre Roberson, he instead has to guard Westbrook. When the Warriors played the Clippers years ago, he guarded CP3 instead of having to guard JJ Redick. He guarded Kyrie Irving instead of JR Smith. By guarding the most talented offensive player on the other team every night, it's going to inflate his defensive stats because those guys are good enough that they're just gonna get buckets when they're rolling. It doesn't make Klay's defense less important though.

I'd say coaches and analysts have way more film and different analytics for gauging player value. And almost across the board they all agree that Klay is an elite defender.

 

[CitySushi]

I'm sure he's a solid coach, but weren't they something like 41-5 with walton and Mike Brown running the show?

Yes, but Walton and Brown were running the offense and defensive systems that Kerr had in place. People for some reason think that Walton and Brown are instituting their own offense, schemes and decisions into the process. They're not. They were holding down the fort until Kerr got back, and the players knew what to do based on the system. Not to detract from their actual ability, but they were glorified babysitters.

Additionally Kerr was still present with the Warriors. He would go over game film and give his thoughts to Walton and Brown as needed. On top of that he was at almost all of the home games the Warriors played and gave input during halftime adjustments.

Kerr was still there, even when he wasn't.

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah I've seen his stats before and it really puzzles me as well. The only thing for me is that defense is an incredibly difficult thing to measure with statistics. Perhaps Klay isn't as good as we think he is. That's certainly a possibility. But perhaps Klay is also an outlier on the metrics on the defensive stats.

There's on potential reason I could see his stats not being good is that because each night he's posed with guarding the oppositions best wing player. He doesn't get a night off. So on a night where say he could up his defensive metrics by guarding a guy like Andre Roberson, he instead has to guard Westbrook. When the Warriors played the Clippers years ago, he guarded CP3 instead of having to guard JJ Redick. He guarded Kyrie Irving instead of JR Smith. By guarding the most talented offensive player on the other team every night, it's going to inflate his defensive stats because those guys are good enough that they're just gonna get buckets when they're rolling. It doesn't make Klay's defense less important though.

I'd say coaches and analysts have way more film and different analytics for gauging player value. And almost across the board they all agree that Klay is an elite defender.

This reasoning is certainly sound as Curry is higher than most might think and maybe because he guards lesser players at times.

Can't say I've heard many coaches speak about Klay's D (not saying you are lying, just not something I recall). It's mostly fans and "experts" who I hear prop up his D.

 

[dtgold88]

Yes, but Walton and Brown were running the offense and defensive systems that Kerr had in place. People for some reason think that Walton and Brown are instituting their own offense, schemes and decisions into the process. They're not. They were holding down the fort until Kerr got back, and the players knew what to do based on the system. Not to detract from their actual ability, but they were glorified babysitters.

Additionally Kerr was still present with the Warriors. He would go over game film and give his thoughts to Walton and Brown as needed. On top of that he was at almost all of the home games the Warriors played and gave input during halftime adjustments.

Kerr was still there, even when he wasn't.

Ok, but how do you suppose Kerr's system works when he plays teams with more talented players (which he almost never has to do)?

 

[CitySushi]

This reasoning is certainly sound as Curry is higher than most might think and maybe because he guards lesser players at times.

Can't say I've heard many coaches speak about Klay's D (not saying you are lying, just not something I recall). It's mostly fans and "experts" who I hear prop up his D.

I just found a quick snipped from Quin Snyder the Jazz head coach. Here's what he said:

“The way he guards every situation is at an elite level,” Snyder said. “He plays pick-and-roll defense. He plays post defense. He guards off the ball. He can guard bigger players and can guard smaller players.”

 

[dtgold88]

I just found a quick snipped from Quin Snyder the Jazz head coach. Here's what he said:

“The way he guards every situation is at an elite level,” Snyder said. “He plays pick-and-roll defense. He plays post defense. He guards off the ball. He can guard bigger players and can guard smaller players.”

My bet is coaches do like his D, but not like they'd say so if asked and they didn't.

 

[CitySushi]

Ok, but how do you suppose Kerr's system works when he plays teams with lesser talented players (which he almost never has to do)?

I don't see how that impacts his coaching. You can't argue a premise based upon what has never happened. We don't know. May he's a dog shit coach who lucked into a good situation. Or maybe he's a guy who elevated a team to a Championship level.

The Warriors, with essentially the same squad, went from first round exit in 2014 to NBA Champions in 2015. He got out-coached by Ty Lue in 2016, but his team still won 73 games. Then they got Durant and won the last two championships.

Kerr designed the system around Curry, Thompson and David Lee. He lucked into Draymond because in 2015 he wasn't even planning on him being a real rotation guy until the David Lee injury in the preseason forced him into the lineup. After Lee's injury, he adjusted the offense and defensive schemes to suit Draymond's strengths instead of Lee's. Draymond never gave his spot back.

There are multiple reasons to believe Kerr would have succeeded on any team. But that success would be tempered based on talent of course. He's not elevating the Magic right now to title contenders. But if you're asking me if he could make a 5-7 game difference right now I'd say absolutely.

 

[CitySushi]

My bet is coaches do like his D, but not like they'd say so if asked and they didn't.

LOL.

DT: It's not like coaches say he's good.
Me: Well actually, here is a coach saying he's good
DT: Of course he has to say that...what is he gonna say he sucks.

LOL dude. No winning with you at all even after I post something to help. Just keep moving those goal posts.

 

[dtgold88]

I don't see how that impacts his coaching. You can't argue a premise based upon what has never happened. We don't know. May he's a dog shit coach who lucked into a good situation. Or maybe he's a guy who elevated a team to a Championship level.

The Warriors, with essentially the same squad, went from first round exit in 2014 to NBA Champions in 2015. He got out-coached by Ty Lue in 2016, but his team still won 73 games. Then they got Durant and won the last two championships.

Kerr designed the system around Curry, Thompson and David Lee. He lucked into Draymond because in 2015 he wasn't even planning on him being a real rotation guy until the David Lee injury in the preseason forced him into the lineup. After Lee's injury, he adjusted the offense and defensive schemes to suit Draymond's strengths instead of Lee's. Draymond never gave his spot back.

There are multiple reasons to believe Kerr would have succeeded on any team. But that success would be tempered based on talent of course. He's not elevating the Magic right now to title contenders. But if you're asking me if he could make a 5-7 game difference right now I'd say absolutely.

agree we don't KNOW what Kerr would do as it's rare he's had to coach a game where his team didn't have more talent than the opponent. Was Phillip brilliant with kobe/shaq, then got dumb when shaq was traded, then smart again when Gasol arrived? Never mind Winter designed the offense.

Lue coaches GS in Finals and Kerr coaches the Cavs last year what do you think is the result?

Only time their talent level was similar in Finals, Lue's team won the series. I think he's like most coaches......give him talent he might win. Don't and he wont.

Isn't to say I don't like the guy because I do. Been a fan of his since he played for Arizona.

 

[dtgold88]

LOL.

DT: It's not like coaches say he's good.
Me: Well actually, here is a coach saying he's good
DT: Of course he has to say that...what is he gonna say he sucks.

LOL dude. No winning with you at all even after I post something to help. Just keep moving those goal posts.

I did "like" the comment and even said I thought he is a solid defender (and coaches probably think the same) despite the metrics.

Is there "winning" with you?

 

[CitySushi]

I did "like" the comment and even said I thought he is a solid defender (and coaches probably think the same) despite the metrics.

Is there "winning" with you?

Perhaps I read the tonality of your comment wrong. If so, my bad. Sounded like you were being dismissive.

 

[trojanfan12]

TT benefits from playing with Lebron

Does Green benefit from playing with Curry, Durant, Thompson?

Of course he does. When you have a great player, other players, even other great players, benefit from that player being on the floor. If for no other reason than, teams can't leave the great player alone to go help on the other player.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I did "like" the comment and even said I thought he is a solid defender (and coaches probably think the same) despite the metrics.

Is there "winning" with you?

from what i read about it, Klay's defensive metrics arent that great because of his paucity of blocks, steals, rebounds. His man-on-man defense is good- but its also easy to put a lot of effort into defense when you are your teams 3rd scoring option on any given night.

As is the case with most things- i am sure there is a medium between his stats and the rep.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Of course he does. When you have a great player, other players, even other great players, benefit from that player being on the floor. If for no other reason than, teams can't leave the great player alone to go help on the other player.

thing is- at least for Thompson, his stats the year before lebron came were better, and the year after lebron left perked back up to those levels.

makes sense- i mean you take 28/8/8 off a team and there are just more stats to go around.

 

[CitySushi]

Lue coaches GS in Finals and Kerr coaches the Cavs last year what do you think is the result?

This is something fascinating to think about. I honestly don't know. I do think that there would have been a completely different system the Cavs would have run. I think talent wins out, but my gut says Kerr would have found a way to I think utilize Kyrie and Kevin Love more.

 

[LAD]

This is your "logic"

There are plenty of "rebounds to be had" against GS as the other team does get off a number of shots. So I guess you are thinking Klay's D is nothing special?

You have to be up for post of the year with that pearl of wisdom. I'll nominate you.

You have to be an idiot to think that rebounding is playing defense, which is what you originally said. Don't try to act like you didn't clean it up when someone else brought up the point that it is a PIECE of defense.

Let's also not act like guys who are leading the league in rebounding are in the running for DOP in the league or that they are making any defensive team just based off that stat alone (as in where Love is, because it's been pointed out to you that Love is usually a defensive liability for his team). Goodness you just continue to beat your head against that brick wall when it comes to Love.

 

[trojanfan12]

as I said, happened all the time here. Didn't really see the entire court, but have to guess someone might have had a better shot than Lebron than the one that was blocked. Though I will say I preferred him going to rim as opposed to the 25 foot off balance shots he took in that situation.

Typically works like that with closers. I would have liked to have seen him take it straight to the basket on that though. Maybe he forces the refs to make a call (not that Lebron at the free throw line is a sure thing lol).