2017 Texas Rangers offseason thread

[Kelleyman]

Point the overpay during Window. While we had Yu, although I thought Choo was an overpay I got it that having an Ace was needed. Same thing with getting Hamels. Hated giving up Brinson/Thompson and to a lesser degree Alfaro. It takes talent to acquire Tslent It has not worked out getting the WS. Now obviously Choo had not delivered defensively.

So we can't have it both ways. Espouse the overpay and decry it. We thought Elvis was an overlay. Now we think differently.

Re Yu. I have always more than liked Yu. Definite top 3 Ranger pitcher stuff wise. But he is over 30. He has logged in some miles. Not sure he should be our building block. Getting value that you might be able to flip may be the best approach. Gonna have to fill a lot of pitching holes in 2 years unless our guys progress quickly which has been our admitted pitching development downfall

 

[Kelleyman]

It sounds more like a parting gift, an exit interview. No agent means not negotiating. I don't blame Yu, this is his chance to set his family for life. This contract should be nothing but a money grab after playing on a "discount" the last few. Can't fault him, but sure wish we could get a discount.

Maybe if we could give him a good contract with a great out. Something back loaded with mutual options. 5 years, $145M with only first two guaranteed and then mutual outs. year breakdown = 24/24/30/32/35.
So he can get paid now and decide to get paid later if he wants or he can go after another big guaranteed contract. he's 31 and that could make him a FA again at 33, or if he doesn't think he can do better he can play for 30+ per year in an air conditioned stadium. In two years 30M will still be a steal if he is a serviceable 1 or 2.

Well thought that too but maybe insurance for him in case of injury?

 

[jta4437]

Point the overpay during Window. While we had Yu, although I thought Choo was an overpay I got it that having an Ace was needed. Same thing with getting Hamels. Hated giving up Brinson/Thompson and to a lesser degree Alfaro. It takes talent to acquire Tslent It has not worked out getting the WS. Now obviously Choo had not delivered defensively.

So we can't have it both ways. Espouse the overpay and decry it. We thought Elvis was an overlay. Now we think differently.

Re Yu. I have always more than liked Yu. Definite top 3 Ranger pitcher stuff wise. But he is over 30. He has logged in some miles. Not sure he should be our building block. Getting value that you might be able to flip may be the best approach. Gonna have to fill a lot of pitching holes in 2 years unless our guys progress quickly which has been our admitted pitching development downfall

Brinson was the Lucroy trade, you're thinking of Williams probably

 

[Kelleyman]

Brinson was the Lucroy trade, you're thinking of Williams probably

Yeah thanks a worse trade.

 

[saddles]

Point the overpay during Window. While we had Yu, although I thought Choo was an overpay I got it that having an Ace was needed. Same thing with getting Hamels. Hated giving up Brinson/Thompson and to a lesser degree Alfaro. It takes talent to acquire Tslent It has not worked out getting the WS. Now obviously Choo had not delivered defensively.

So we can't have it both ways. Espouse the overpay and decry it. We thought Elvis was an overlay. Now we think differently.

Re Yu. I have always more than liked Yu. Definite top 3 Ranger pitcher stuff wise. But he is over 30. He has logged in some miles. Not sure he should be our building block. Getting value that you might be able to flip may be the best approach. Gonna have to fill a lot of pitching holes in 2 years unless our guys progress quickly which has been our admitted pitching development downfall

The problem with the term "overpay" is that it means different things to different people. I actually don't think an AAV of $25 million for Yu is an overpay in today's baseball economy. I did think the Choo deal was both an overpay and extremely too long. I thought Detroit was dumb when they first signed Prince, but we bailed them out.

The Hamels deal looked bad from the start to a few of us on here. Some were saying he already had too many innings on him. I was saying he had a poor history of pitching against AL hitting. Then there was the fact that he cost too much in terms of prospects. His salary is also costing us a shot at Yu this offseason.

 

[saddles]

One way to look at this informal meeting with Yu is that Pudge once met informally with team officials and a contract resulted from it.

 

[Kelleyman]

The problem with the term "overpay" is that it means different things to different people. I actually don't think an AAV of $25 million for Yu is an overpay in today's baseball economy. I did think the Choo deal was both an overpay and extremely too long. I thought Detroit was dumb when they first signed Prince, but we bailed them out.

The Hamels deal looked bad from the start to a few of us on here. Some were saying he already had too many innings on him. I was saying he had a poor history of pitching against AL hitting. Then there was the fact that he cost too much in terms of prospects. His salary is also costing us a shot at Yu this offseason.

My point is teams overpay when they feel they are in the cusp of a WC. Where we are now unless we can get YU and another piece we are are not contending. This vs getting w piece that puts us over the top.

Hamels has delivered overall. Especially that 162nd game if I remember correctly. Like mentioned to get value you have to give value. If we win WS then greatest trade ever for Rangers. All hindsight

Good to buy value now regardless of the price because when you have value, it is easier to flip as needed.

Our legit window looks to be 2020. If Beltre becomes dissatisfied I bet Elvis opts out once thought of as an overpay. More revisionist history by some.

 

[Kelleyman]

Let's not be Ranger grumpy.

 

[scotsman1948]

Longoria has been traded to the Giants. Juan Nicasio has signed with the Mariners

 

[scotsman1948]

My point is teams overpay when they feel they are in the cusp of a WC. Where we are now unless we can get YU and another piece we are are not contending. This vs getting w piece that puts us over the top.

Hamels has delivered overall. Especially that 162nd game if I remember correctly. Like mentioned to get value you have to give value. If we win WS then greatest trade ever for Rangers. All hindsight

Good to buy value now regardless of the price because when you have value, it is easier to flip as needed.

Our legit window looks to be 2020. If Beltre becomes dissatisfied I bet Elvis opts out once thought of as an overpay. More revisionist history by some.

i agree with the idea of 2019, 2020 but we need to start rebuilding now. like i said earlier, we need to start now with the additions. 1 or 2 this off-season looking at 2019, 2020 and beyond and then 1 or 2 more next off-season looking to the future. but if you favor waiting until 2020 to start then set your sights on the Rangers not competing until 2023 or later because it will take that long for our youth in the minors to gel into MLB players

 

[Kelleyman]

i agree with the idea of 2019, 2020 but we need to start rebuilding now. like i said earlier, we need to start now with the additions. 1 or 2 this off-season looking at 2019, 2020 and beyond and then 1 or 2 more next off-season looking to the future. but if you favor waiting until 2020 to start then set your sights on the Rangers not competing until 2023 or later because it will take that long for our youth in the minors to gel into MLB players

Really talking about overpay. You always rebuild, of course. Now is not the time to overpay

 

[scotsman1948]

Really talking about overpay. You always rebuild, of course. Now is not the time to overpay

Unfortunately the name of the game today is overpay but if you as a team plan on competing you are going to have to overpay at some amount

 

[scotsman1948]

Is any player worth what they are being paid or projected to earn? Example: Kershaw is projected to get 30+M a year on his next contract at most he will pitch 35 regular season games. He earn approximately 900k a game. He is a great pitcher but no pitcher is worth that much a game but there will be 10 to 12 teams standing in line ready to offer him that much

 

[saddles]

My point is teams overpay when they feel they are in the cusp of a WC. Where we are now unless we can get YU and another piece we are are not contending. This vs getting w piece that puts us over the top.

Hamels has delivered overall. Especially that 162nd game if I remember correctly. Like mentioned to get value you have to give value. If we win WS then greatest trade ever for Rangers. All hindsight

Good to buy value now regardless of the price because when you have value, it is easier to flip as needed.

Our legit window looks to be 2020. If Beltre becomes dissatisfied I bet Elvis opts out once thought of as an overpay. More revisionist history by some.

The hindsight accusation is pointless. When someone is against something to begin with hindsight has nothing to do with it.

A trade should be judged based on what was done within the trade and not by what goes on afterwards. Sometimes bad decisions work out, but they were still bad decisions. Sometimes good decisions don't work out, but they are still good decisions.

I thought the Hamels trade was a bad one when it happened, actually before it happened, and others felt that way also. The Rangers going to a WS or not has nothing to do with it.

Paying someone market price is not overpaying for them. The price range for an ace has been settled. Paying him in that range is not overpaying.

 

[saddles]

Not going after a pitcher like Yu because a window isn't open currently, only serves to nail the window shut a little tighter.

 

[donaldson79]

It sounds more like a parting gift, an exit interview. No agent means not negotiating. I don't blame Yu, this is his chance to set his family for life. This contract should be nothing but a money grab after playing on a "discount" the last few. Can't fault him, but sure wish we could get a discount.

If he can't figure out how to "set his family for life" on a mere $10 million per year, then the next contract won't matter so much.

 

[fordman84]

If he can't figure out how to "set his family for life" on a mere $10 million per year, then the next contract won't matter so much.

one million a year I could set my family for life, but you have to realize they have a skill set most of us don't.

 

[scotsman1948]

one million a year I could set my family for life, but you have to realize they have a skill set most of us don't.

I have degrees in electrical and nuclear engineering and I won't make that much a year and I consider that anyone who has a degree and works in their field as having skill sets

 

[Kelleyman]

The hindsight accusation is pointless. When someone is against something to begin with hindsight has nothing to do with it.

A trade should be judged based on what was done within the trade and not by what goes on afterwards. Sometimes bad decisions work out, but they were still bad decisions. Sometimes good decisions don't work out, but they are still good decisions.

I thought the Hamels trade was a bad one when it happened, actually before it happened, and others felt that way also. The Rangers going to a WS or not has nothing to do with it.

Paying someone market price is not overpaying for them. The price range for an ace has been settled. Paying him in that range is not overpaying.

Ok sorry Bennie. I know you wanted Abreu over over the Prince trade and did not like the prospect haul in the Hamels trade. I hated losing our CF prospects, Alfaro, CJ Edwards aka as Carl and Thompson etc but I understood why it was done and more important why then. Thus the overpay

In this phase of rebuilding I don't think trading prospects or short term contracts that are pricey are smart

 

[donaldson79]

but you have to realize they have a skill set most of us don't.

Oh I do realize it, and I'm not saying he doesn't deserve the contract.

But "setting his family for life" with his next contract is what I was addressing. He's already made how many millions? 70+......He can't set up his family with that much then it's un-fixable....ha ha