2016 NBA Off-Season Thread part 2

[WiggyRuss]

We're probably getting hooked up on semantics.

For Kobe to formally veto a trade, there would have to be an actual acceptance of the trade on the Lakers part. According to Mitch and Dr. Buss, that never happened.

My guess is that the Pistons offer was the closest that anyone came to something that the Lakers would have considered, they told Kobe about the offer and he said no. Had he said okay, then the Lakers could have moved ahead and tried to get more.

If Kobe wants to call that vetoing the trade, that's fine. But according to Mitch and Dr. Buss there was never a true acceptance of any offer which is the only way to truly veto a trade.

they brought a done deal to Kobe and said- yes or no- and he said no. If at that moment kobe said- YES- he would have been a Piston. Thats what Kobe said on his "Muse" Showtime special.




But in a BS Report appearance to promote the Showtime documentary, "MUSE," Bryant admitted that he vetoed a trade to the Pistons. (Bryant's comments come in at the 44 minute mark.)

"I said, 'I gave you a list of teams that I'm comfortable being traded to. That wasn't one of them, so no."

Bryant also said he wanted to go to Chicago. "Chicago was my No.1 choice for a destination."

A deal for Bryant was reportedly very much on the table, but there was a hangup over the availability of Luol Deng in the trade. Bryant's desire was mostly derived from his love and pursuit historically of Michael Jordan. Seeing Bryant on that Bulls team, which was, no joke, an Eastern Conference Contender going into their ill-fated 2007-2008 season, would have been jarring but fascinating.

Bryant admitted that part of the reason he declined the trade to Detroit stemmed from what the Pistons would have given up (Tayshaun Prince and Rip Hamilton included).

 

[trojanfan12]

they brought a done deal to Kobe and said- yes or no- and he said no. If at that moment kobe said- YES- he would have been a Piston. Thats what Kobe said on his "Muse" Showtime special.




But in a BS Report appearance to promote the Showtime documentary, "MUSE," Bryant admitted that he vetoed a trade to the Pistons. (Bryant's comments come in at the 44 minute mark.)

"I said, 'I gave you a list of teams that I'm comfortable being traded to. That wasn't one of them, so no."

Bryant also said he wanted to go to Chicago. "Chicago was my No.1 choice for a destination."

A deal for Bryant was reportedly very much on the table, but there was a hangup over the availability of Luol Deng in the trade. Bryant's desire was mostly derived from his love and pursuit historically of Michael Jordan. Seeing Bryant on that Bulls team, which was, no joke, an Eastern Conference Contender going into their ill-fated 2007-2008 season, would have been jarring but fascinating.

Bryant admitted that part of the reason he declined the trade to Detroit stemmed from what the Pistons would have given up (Tayshaun Prince and Rip Hamilton included).

Well, it appears there's a difference of opinion between Mitch/Dr. Buss and Kobe. I'm going with what Mitch and Dr. Buss have said based on many years of seeing how they have operated in these situations.

Plus, Kobe's comments are part of a tv special and it's not like he's clueless on how to promote himself. I'd say he had a lot more to gain by embellishing the situation than Mitch/Dr. Buss did.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Well, it appears there's a difference of opinion between Mitch/Dr. Buss and Kobe. I'm going with what Mitch and Dr. Buss have said based on many years of seeing how they have operated in these situations.

Plus, Kobe's comments are part of a tv special and it's not like he's clueless on how to promote himself. I'd say he had a lot more to gain by embellishing the situation than Mitch/Dr. Buss did.

just out of curiosity- do you have a quote or article or anything from either Buss or Mitch that you are basing this on? I tried to look and couldnt find any.

I mean- taking EVERYTHING off the table- everything Kobe said- Mitch said, Buss said etc.--- what do we KNOW.

We KNOW that the Lakers exchanged proposals with the Bulls and Pistons at a minimum, after Kobe demanded a trade. To characterize that as "not close" to happening just does not make sense to me- and thats if we totally ignore Bryant's own words.



this article by Ken Berger seeems to be the definitive article that I could find-

Ken Berger of CBS Sports details the story of how the Lakers and Detroit Pistons had an agreed deal that would have sent Bryant to Detroit back in 2007, with Bryant originally agreeing to go before reversing his decision at the eleventh hour.

“The deal was done,” an individual who was involved with the negotiations told Berger. “We were just waiting to set up the conference call with the league office.”

Remember, back in 2007, Bryant had publicly asked for a trade from the Lakers, citing his dissatisfaction with the front office after consecutive first round exits. Bryant wanted to win, and he wanted to prove he could do it without Shaquille O’Neal, and he felt that the Lakers couldn’t offer him the supporting cast he needed to do it. Things were so ugly that the late Jerry Buss ordered GM Mitch Kupchak to ship Bryant out, even though he didn’t want to.

Bryant’s preferred destination, according to Berger, was the Chicago Bulls, but he was also willing to approve a trade to Detroit. Sources told Berger that the deal was completely agreed upon: Bryant to Detroit in exchange for Rip Hamilton, Rodney Stuckey, Jason Maxiell, and a pair of first round picks. Bryant signed off on the move on the move on the condition that Chauncey Billups and Rasheed Wallace weren’t included, as he envisioned teaming up with them in the Motor City.

 

[trojanfan12]

just out of curiosity- do you have a quote or article or anything from either Buss or Mitch that you are basing this on? I tried to look and couldnt find any.

It was in a couple of radio interviews and was years ago. I'm pretty sure one was the Dan Patrick Show and the other was the local Petros and Money show. Like I said, it was years ago, so finding the show quotes is beyond my internet skills.

End of the day, it really doesn't matter which side is "more accurate" since Kobe never left and the rest is history.

 

[WiggyRuss]

It was in a couple of radio interviews and was years ago. I'm pretty sure one was the Dan Patrick Show and the other was the local Petros and Money show. Like I said, it was years ago, so finding the show quotes is beyond my internet skills.

End of the day, it really doesn't matter which side is "more accurate" since Kobe never left and the rest is history.

being a law clerk for the past 2 and a half years while i went to school and am waiting for the bar---- i have become so freaking good at internet research its insane.....the crazy obscure weird stuff i sometimes have to research for litigation is unbelievable.

The WORST is dealing with the Federal government though- FEMA, IRS etc. I called the IRS for guidance yesterday on non-profits after being all over their website- and it was not even like they said- your wait time is 20 minutes--- they said- due to high call volume please call back tomorrow- and cut me off the line.

 

[trojanfan12]

The WORST is dealing with the Federal government though- FEMA, IRS etc. I called the IRS for guidance yesterday on non-profits after being all over their website- and it was not even like they said- your wait time is 20 minutes--- they said- due to high call volume please call back tomorrow- and cut me off the line.

No doubt. The Federal government is the worst and the IRS is the worst of the bunch. Even when you get someone who seems to know what they are talking about and say they will take care of things, it's 50/50 at best that they will actually do it.

 

[gordontrue]

Sounds like pretty clear tampering to me... no?


“(The Warriors) reached out once we lost to OKC, maybe that night,” West told reporters at Golden State’s media day. “My agent was like, ‘If you’re interested in continuing to play, Golden State wants you.’ He was obviously talking to a few guys and to the coach during the process. Then, when Kevin Durant reached out, he told me he wanted me to come join, so it was a no-brainer."

 

[WiggyRuss]

Sounds like pretty clear tampering to me... no?


“(The Warriors) reached out once we lost to OKC, maybe that night,” West told reporters at Golden State’s media day. “My agent was like, ‘If you’re interested in continuing to play, Golden State wants you.’ He was obviously talking to a few guys and to the coach during the process. Then, when Kevin Durant reached out, he told me he wanted me to come join, so it was a no-brainer."

i mean- by definition thats probably tampering but- its David West. He died years ago and his reanimated corpse has been playing and i am not clear on the tampering rules for reanimated corpses.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

being a law clerk for the past 2 and a half years while i went to school and am waiting for the bar---- i have become so freaking good at internet research its insane.....the crazy obscure weird stuff i sometimes have to research for litigation is unbelievable.

The WORST is dealing with the Federal government though- FEMA, IRS etc. I called the IRS for guidance yesterday on non-profits after being all over their website- and it was not even like they said- your wait time is 20 minutes--- they said- due to high call volume please call back tomorrow- and cut me off the line.

You work at Burger King, stop pretending to be something you're not.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Sounds like pretty clear tampering to me... no?


“(The Warriors) reached out once we lost to OKC, maybe that night,” West told reporters at Golden State’s media day. “My agent was like, ‘If you’re interested in continuing to play, Golden State wants you.’ He was obviously talking to a few guys and to the coach during the process. Then, when Kevin Durant reached out, he told me he wanted me to come join, so it was a no-brainer."

Exactly what I thought when I saw this.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

i mean- by definition thats probably tampering but- its Paul Pierce. He died years ago and his reanimated corpse has been playing and i am not clear on the tampering rules for reanimated corpses.

Other possible choices...

David Lee, Josh Smith, Metra World Peace

 

[gordontrue]

Never been super fond of Dan Gilbert... but this is a pretty cool move.

Dan Gilbert giving championship rings to over 1,000 Cavalier and Quicken Loans Arena employees, including janitors, food vendors, police, etc.

And no, its not the same ring the players are getting, of course... but the employee rings are apparently worth ~$1k

 

[Heatles84]

Other possible choices...

David Lee, Josh Smith, Metra World Peace

I'd take a flyer on Josh Smith too be quite honest if I'm the Warriors. Maybe have a David Lee reunion. Then again, they're only going to give you about 10 minutes...which is all you really need.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

I'd take a flyer on Josh Smith too be quite honest if I'm the Warriors. Maybe have a David Lee reunion. Then again, they're only going to give you about 10 minutes...which is all you really need.

What happened to Josh Smith?

It like all his game disappeared after he was cut in Detroit.

Maybe it was before then and that's why they are that huge contract.

Lee signed with the Spurs I believe.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Lue: Limiting LeBron's minutes is a top priority

Incredibly smart of the Cavs to draw a hard line with LeBron on this. The more rest- the better in my view. Having Love and Kyrie to carry the load when LeBron rests is perfect. I would much rather win between 57 and 60 games- and have a rested LeBron- than win 65 and push LeBron. More Tim Duncan- less Kobe Bryant in his later years- I think the Cavs will only continue to cut back his minutes and cut back his games played. Combine that with the physical freak LeBron is- and how seriously he takes his training- and there is no reason that LeBron cannot be truly great for a few more years. Having Kyrie Irving helps too


"My thing is just making sure guys are healthy, continue to limit LeBron's minutes, and he was at an all-time low last year," Lue said. "Watch Kyrie [Irving's] minutes because we know we're playing for something big. We know when we get to the playoffs it's going to require a lot of minutes, so with those guys and with Kevin [Love], just have to watch guys getting to the red zone.

"For me it's a mindset, and it's getting my body in 82-game fashion," James said. "Will I play them all? Hopefully, but if not then ... For me, for my mental [state] to say I can go out and play all 82 because my body feels that good. Last year I talked about it and I could've done it. So I just have the same mind frame as I had last year."

 

[WiggyRuss]

I'd take a flyer on Josh Smith too be quite honest if I'm the Warriors. Maybe have a David Lee reunion. Then again, they're only going to give you about 10 minutes...which is all you really need.

i dunno...Josh Smith cant shoot and cant pass. I think he would stick out like sore thumb- especially in that system that requires a lot of ball movement and intelligence. He could play some defense i guess- but hes getting pretty old and defense is usually one of the first things that go- although- his versatility on defense is extremely important in todays NBA- if he can still play defense.

 

[Heatles84]

i dunno...Josh Smith cant shoot and cant pass. I think he would stick out like sore thumb- especially in that system that requires a lot of ball movement and intelligence. He could play some defense i guess- but hes getting pretty old and defense is usually one of the first things that go- although- his versatility on defense is extremely important in todays NBA- if he can still play defense.

Yeah, you're probably right. I don't think he's that old, but he just hit 30. But yeah, he wasn't much of a passer if memory serves.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

i seriously think you both have reading comprehension problems. Everyone knows the back stories and circumstances and the reasons for why those guys left. You do- i do - everyone. Wade wanted more money and felt taken advantage of. Bosh got health issues. LeBron wanted to go win and to go home.

you can go into the specifics of the situations- and talk about who did what to whom- blah blah blah- I get it- and of COURSE leBron left Cleveland on bad terms- i could give you a long explanation of why- but it doesnt really matter at this point.

What matters is that LeBron, Bosh and Wade- who about 6 years were standing on a stage saying "not one, not two, not three...blah blah blah"- all left on bad terms with the front office after delivering multiple championships. It is not a scenario that anyone could have possibly foreseen/predicted just 3 years ago- and its a very very bad look for the Franchise.

Why?
The Heat held up there end of the bargain for the 4 seasons they were together.
James had every right to leave once he became a FA, however, he did it at the expense of Bosh/Wade.
If they choose to continue to brown nose him, that's on them.

Wade had regrets a week after he said "Bulls".
Bosh?? He has a death wish.
Fired his agent today?
He's lost his mind.
At this point, who the fuck cares what he says, thinks, or feels about the Heat?
Smart people understand they are trying to save him from himself.


Bottom line:
James did what James does.
Wade turned down a fair offer prob because James was in his ear.
Bosh became terribly unhealthy.
Heat is totally blameless for any decision or results of them.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Never been super fond of Dan Gilbert... but this is a pretty cool move.

Dan Gilbert giving championship rings to over 1,000 Cavalier and Quicken Loans Arena employees, including janitors, food vendors, police, etc.

And no, its not the same ring the players are getting, of course... but the employee rings are apparently worth ~$1k

I don't think it's unique or unusual.
I know, for example, the Heat ushers and many others all sport championship rings.
That being said, it is very cool for them and nice of Gilbert to do.

 

[Heatles84]

I don't think it's unique or unusual.
I know, for example, the Heat ushers and many others all sport championship rings.
That being said, it is very cool for them and nice of Gilbert to do.

Yeah, I find Gilbert to be a douche. But he could've chose just to give the rings to players and staff and that be it. At least he extended the courtesy to the staff in its entirety.