2016 NBA Off-Season Thread part 2

[Hambombs]

i have a feeling your Rangers and my Tribe will be matching up at some point this October.

I have a feeling Lucroy will get plenty of boo's but have a big series. Adrian Beltre scares the crap outta me. What a freaking pro and he has gotten scorching hot this fall. RAngers def have a great lineup- and Hamels out front......the bullpen a little shaky.

What is the Rangers rotation for a playoff series if you were to guess? 3 man? 4 man? and who?

i have a feeling your Rangers and my Tribe will be matching up at some point this October.

I have a feeling Lucroy will get plenty of boo's but have a big series. Adrian Beltre scares the crap outta me. What a freaking pro and he has gotten scorching hot this fall. RAngers def have a great lineup- and Hamels out front......the bullpen a little shaky.

What is the Rangers rotation for a playoff series if you were to guess? 3 man? 4 man? and who?

Yep man cant wait! Lucroy was a great add to this team. I would guess hamels,darvish then who knows after that. Thats a great 2 right there. I think darvish has the most upside easily in our rotation. Good luck!

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

i think what you are failing to understand - as usual- is that my opinion doesnt mean dick in this regard, yours does not mean dick in this regard

All of Wade, Bosh and LeBron left on bad terms. No matter what excuses you continue to bring up, no matter what kind of convoluted BS you have in your head- there is nothing changing the fact that the Heat went from the center of the NBA- and a meteoric rise- to going down the ole poop chute and having their entire Big 3 leave disgruntled in a time frame that was shockingly fast.

thats all the article said

thats all i said

again- you turn it into something personal and impute bullshit that does not even exist to get all huffy and puffy.

I would hate to be the guy showing around free agent X when he asks me- Why did the Big 3 all leave on bad terms?

You continue to just make a fool out of yourself.

Let's break it down.

1. Bosh. His health failed him. Not Riley or the Heat. His problem is as bad or worse then it was originally.
NO team doctor is ever going to clear him. If you disagree, how about a 60 day off SportsHoopla bet?
If not, drop it. If Bosh chooses to blame outsiders, then he's not near as smart as we've all been lead to believe.

2. Wade. The Heat offered him every penny they could without losing/including any future valuable assets.
They offered him 10M more then he was asking exactly 1 year earlier.
If he chose to allow James to be in his ear and sway his decision during the opening week of FA, then that's on him.
Let him enjoy his time in Chicago with Rondo, making about the same amount as the Heat offered.
The Bulls are predicted to win a whopping 2 more games then the Heat.
I wouldn't be that surprised if the Heat end up having the better season.

3. LeDouche. Not going to rehash. We all know the story.
As far as leaving on bad terms. Really?
Nothing will ever compare to Gilbert's hate letter or Cavs 'fans' reaction.

 

[Heatles84]

You continue to just make a fool out of yourself.

Let's break it down.

1. Bosh. His health failed him. Not Riley or the Heat. His problem is as bad or worse then it was originally.
NO team doctor is ever going to clear him. If you disagree, how about a 60 day off SportsHoopla bet?
If not, drop it. If Bosh chooses to blame outsiders, then he's not near as smart as we've all been lead to believe.

2. Wade. The Heat offered him every penny they could without losing/including any future valuable assets.
They offered him 10M more then he was asking exactly 1 year earlier.
If he chose to allow James to be in his ear and sway his decision during the opening week of FA, then that's on him.
Let him enjoy his time in Chicago with Rondo, making about the same amount as the Heat offered.
The Bulls are predicted to win a whopping 2 more games then the Heat.
I wouldn't be that surprised if the Heat end up having the better season.

3. LeDouche. Not going to rehash. We all know the story.
As far as leaving on bad terms. Really?
Nothing will ever compare to Gilbert's hate letter or Cavs 'fans' reaction.

Yeah. Douche bag brings up how Lebron left the Heat with a bad taste in his mouth. Lebron probably left with what's the equivalent of drinking a cup full of semen when he left Cleveland and Gilbert wrote that embarrassing letter. Yet here we are.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Yep man cant wait! Lucroy was a great add to this team. I would guess hamels,darvish then who knows after that. Thats a great 2 right there. I think darvish has the most upside easily in our rotation. Good luck!

Id give the Rangers the edge in lineup without a doubt.....with Carrasco and Salazar out- i think the SP is pretty much a push.....the Tribe's bullpen is a whole lot better than the Rangers though.

you think Adrian Beltre will be a HOF'er? when i first thought of it- i thought no- but the more i look at it- if he could put together another year or two he really could do it. i think he is such a good player.

how healthy and effective is Darvish? I was paying more attention a couple weeks ago- but- havent done a whole lot since---- I have been in a fantasy baseball league with my undergrad college buddies for years- like almost 10- its a big league- 15 teams- and i have only placed once (3rd in the 1st year of the league)- and have had a run of crappiness for a long time--- only to have dominated this year. Its roto and it was over before the end of August. My team was freaking STACKED. Best team in the history of the league no doubt- pickups like Villar, Porcello, Hill, Beltre, Dozier, Napoli, -- in addition to my core of Kershaw, Harper, Votto, Kluber certainly helped. like everything worked out for once after being pretty pitiful for a long time.

 

[WiggyRuss]

You continue to just make a fool out of yourself.

Let's break it down.

1. Bosh. His health failed him. Not Riley or the Heat. His problem is as bad or worse then it was originally.
NO team doctor is ever going to clear him. If you disagree, how about a 60 day off SportsHoopla bet?
If not, drop it. If Bosh chooses to blame outsiders, then he's not near as smart as we've all been lead to believe.

2. Wade. The Heat offered him every penny they could without losing/including any future valuable assets.
They offered him 10M more then he was asking exactly 1 year earlier.
If he chose to allow James to be in his ear and sway his decision during the opening week of FA, then that's on him.
Let him enjoy his time in Chicago with Rondo, making about the same amount as the Heat offered.
The Bulls are predicted to win a whopping 2 more games then the Heat.
I wouldn't be that surprised if the Heat end up having the better season.

3. LeDouche. Not going to rehash. We all know the story.
As far as leaving on bad terms. Really?
Nothing will ever compare to Gilbert's hate letter or Cavs 'fans' reaction.

i seriously think you both have reading comprehension problems. Everyone knows the back stories and circumstances and the reasons for why those guys left. You do- i do - everyone. Wade wanted more money and felt taken advantage of. Bosh got health issues. LeBron wanted to go win and to go home.

you can go into the specifics of the situations- and talk about who did what to whom- blah blah blah- I get it- and of COURSE leBron left Cleveland on bad terms- i could give you a long explanation of why- but it doesnt really matter at this point.

What matters is that LeBron, Bosh and Wade- who about 6 years were standing on a stage saying "not one, not two, not three...blah blah blah"- all left on bad terms with the front office after delivering multiple championships. It is not a scenario that anyone could have possibly foreseen/predicted just 3 years ago- and its a very very bad look for the Franchise.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yep man cant wait! Lucroy was a great add to this team. I would guess hamels,darvish then who knows after that. Thats a great 2 right there. I think darvish has the most upside easily in our rotation. Good luck!

Id give the Rangers the edge in lineup without a doubt.....with Carrasco and Salazar out- i think the SP is pretty much a push.....the Tribe's bullpen is a whole lot better than the Rangers though.

you think Adrian Beltre will be a HOF'er? when i first thought of it- i thought no- but the more i look at it- if he could put together another year or two he really could do it. i think he is such a good player.

If either of your teams make the World Series...the Dodgers gonna kick their ass.

 

[WiggyRuss]

If either of your teams make the World Series...the Dodgers gonna kick their ass.

dude....Clayton Kershaw is def. my favorite non-Indian baseball player-(lefty pitcher- just like i was in high school pre-2 shoulder surgeries) and i think that break they gave him is gonna help immensely. For whatever reason he always comes up short in the playoffs- and i have suspected fatigue in the past from carrying the team. Giving him a couple months off just might leave him a fresh arm so he can dominate.

Dodgers are my dark horse WS contender. Rich Hill has been unreal too. Those 2 with that bullpen could upset anyone....the Cubs are stacked no doubt- but baseball is funky like that--- its not like the NBA where you can - absent injury- pretty much declare a 3rd straight CAvs/Warriors finals right now.

 

[trojanfan12]

i seriously think you both have reading comprehension problems. Everyone knows the back stories and circumstances and the reasons for why those guys left. You do- i do - everyone. Wade wanted more money and felt taken advantage of. Bosh got health issues. LeBron wanted to go win and to go home.

you can go into the specifics of the situations- and talk about who did what to whom- blah blah blah- I get it- and of COURSE leBron left Cleveland on bad terms- i could give you a long explanation of why- but it doesnt really matter at this point.

What matters is that LeBron, Bosh and Wade- who about 6 years were standing on a stage saying "not one, not two, not three...blah blah blah"- all left on bad terms with the front office after delivering multiple championships. It is not a scenario that anyone could have possibly foreseen/predicted just 3 years ago- and its a very very bad look for the Franchise.

Here's the problem with what you continue to post about those situations. If those players left on bad terms, it was their own doing. It wasn't because they were treated poorly or unfairly by the Heat.

You continue to post the same stuff over and over trying to make it seem like it's been because of how they were treated in Miami and that's never been the case.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Here's the problem with what you continue to post about those situations. If those players left on bad terms, it was their own doing. It wasn't because they were treated poorly or unfairly by the Heat.

You continue to post the same stuff over and over trying to make it seem like it's been because of how they were treated in Miami and that's never been the case.

their own doing? LOL......so you are saying that it was ALL on the players- and did not have anything to do with the Heat?

How they have dropped the ball handling the Bosh situation is astounding to me. The battles in the media between the two parties is just so amateurish its ridiculous. Its crazy to me that Wade and Bosh both had to go to the media and air out their problems after believing they were disrespected and snubbed by the team.

Of course Bosh, Wade and LeBron share responsibility for leaving on bad terms but there is PLENTY of blame to go around and without a doubt the franchise has plenty to take responsibility for.

 

[bksballer89]

their own doing? LOL......so you are saying that it was ALL on the players- and did not have anything to do with the Heat?

How they have dropped the ball handling the Bosh situation is astounding to me. The battles in the media between the two parties is just so amateurish its ridiculous.

Of course Bosh, Wade and LeBron share responsibility for leaving on bad terms but there is PLENTY of blame to go around and without a doubt the franchise has plenty to take responsibility for.

How did they drop the ball on the Bosh situation? They gave him bloodclots? Hard to be cleared to play in this league after two blood clots. They deserve zero blame for the Bosh situation

 

[trojanfan12]

dude....Clayton Kershaw is def. my favorite non-Indian baseball player-(lefty pitcher- just like i was in high school pre-2 shoulder surgeries) and i think that break they gave him is gonna help immensely. For whatever reason he always comes up short in the playoffs- and i have suspected fatigue in the past from carrying the team. Giving him a couple months off just might leave him a fresh arm so he can dominate.

Dodgers are my dark horse WS contender. Rich Hill has been unreal too. Those 2 with that bullpen could upset anyone....the Cubs are stacked no doubt- but baseball is funky like that--- its not like the NBA where you can - absent injury- pretty much declare a 3rd straight CAvs/Warriors finals right now.

Yeah, when Kershaw went down, I thought the season was over. Especially when injuries kept piling up on them. Roberts has done a great job managing the roster (especially for a rookie manager) and the bullpen and minor league guys that have been brought up have all performed pretty well.

I agree that the rest might help. I thought he's looked gassed in the playoffs as well.

All kidding aside, I'd love to see your Indians make the World Series. Wouldn't even mind them winning as long as it's not against the Dodgers. lol

 

[WiggyRuss]

Yeah, when Kershaw went down, I thought the season was over. Especially when injuries kept piling up on them. Roberts has done a great job managing the roster (especially for a rookie manager) and the bullpen and minor league guys that have been brought up have all performed pretty well.

I agree that the rest might help. I thought he's looked gassed in the playoffs as well.

All kidding aside, I'd love to see your Indians make the World Series. Wouldn't even mind them winning as long as it's not against the Dodgers. lol

a Cubs/Indians World Series would be crazy--- Indians have the 2nd longest streak having not one the WS since 1948. The Cubs of course is the longest and since- off the top of my head like - 1908 or something right?

I would suspect that if there was a Cubs/Indians WS that nationally most people would root for the sentimental favorite like the Cubs...

either way- if there was a Cubs/Indians world series- either Theo or Tito will be immortalized----- either Tito will have won World Series with the Sox and Indians- breaking 2 insanely long streaks--- or Theo will have GM'd the Cubs and Sox to World Series. Either would be incredibly impressive.

Realistically- the Indians are without Carrasco, Salazar, Brantley. All 3 of those guys are really really freaking good players. At some point i think that catches up- but we shall see. Luck just doesnt seem to be in their side right now---- but ya never know. The Tribe's bullpen is fucking lights out- which is huge in the playoffs.

 

[WiggyRuss]

How did they drop the ball on the Bosh situation? They gave him bloodclots? Hard to be cleared to play in this league after two blood clots. They deserve zero blame for the Bosh situation

you have Bosh talking in the media how he felt ostracized and unwanted from the Heat like they were working against him and not with him. That is crazy to me. For it to get to that point is a failure on both parties. For Bosh to feel that the Heat have essentially turned their back on him during his time of crisis is just so wrong to me. Im not saying they should relent to him playing- im saying they could have done more- even if it was just how they handled the sitatuion- to make Bosh feel like he was a valued member of the franchise- instead of a car with a busted transmission that is getting sent to the junk yard.

 

[trojanfan12]

their own doing? LOL......so you are saying that it was ALL on the players- and did not have anything to do with the Heat?

Yes, it's pretty easy to see too.

Bosh - It's about his health. He can't play because of his health. The Heat are trying to protect him from himself, he doesn't want to give up on his career. But 3 clotting incidents in 1.5 years speaks for itself. I don't blame Bosh for not wanting to give up on his career, but at some point you have to listen to doctors and your own body.

Wade - The Heat offered him everything they could and still keep a competitive team on the floor. Were they supposed to gut the team so that they could pay him more?

Lebron - Wanted to win a title, didn't think it could happen anymore with Miami and went to a team where he had some younger player and could exert a level of power that no player should have and found the one owner in the league who would give it to him.

This is on those players, not the Heat. It's like people who still think Shaq left the Lakers because of Kobe. It's the easy story line that really doesn't require much thought.

 

[trojanfan12]

a Cubs/Indians World Series would be crazy--- Indians have the 2nd longest streak having not one the WS since 1948. The Cubs of course is the longest and since- off the top of my head like - 1908 or something right?

I would suspect that if there was a Cubs/Indians WS that nationally most people would root for the sentimental favorite like the Cubs...

either way- if there was a Cubs/Indians world series- either Theo or Tito will be immortalized----- either Tito will have won World Series with the Sox and Indians- breaking 2 insanely long streaks--- or Theo will have GM'd the Cubs and Sox to World Series. Either would be incredibly impressive.

Realistically- the Indians are without Carrasco, Salazar, Brantley. All 3 of those guys are really really freaking good players. At some point i think that catches up- but we shall see. Luck just doesnt seem to be in their side right now---- but ya never know. The Tribe's bullpen is fucking lights out- which is huge in the playoffs.

As much as I want my Dodgers in the world series, I wouldn't mind them missing it to see that happen. The only problem I have with it is that it just seems like if either the Cubs or Indians won the Workd Series, somehow they wouldn't be the Cubs or Indians anymore. Part of the reason I like those teams is because of their "lovable losers" status.

I also wouldn't know which team to root for. lol

 

[WiggyRuss]

again-

Yes, it's pretty easy to see too.

Bosh - It's about his health. He can't play because of his health. The Heat are trying to protect him from himself, he doesn't want to give up on his career. But 3 clotting incidents in 1.5 years speaks for itself. I don't blame Bosh for not wanting to give up on his career, but at some point you have to listen to doctors and your own body.

Wade - The Heat offered him everything they could and still keep a competitive team on the floor. Were they supposed to gut the team so that they could pay him more?

Lebron - Wanted to win a title, didn't think it could happen anymore with Miami and went to a team where he had some younger player and could exert a level of power that no player should have and found the one owner in the league who would give it to him.

This is on those players, not the Heat. It's like people who still think Shaq left the Lakers because of Kobe. It's the easy story line that really doesn't require much thought.

again- this is exactly what i was telling Heatles- what matters is that Bosh, LeBron and Wade all left with bad feelings towards the front office. you can justify and rationlize it anyway you want- and there are some very valid points that you bring up- what im saying is those points dont matter. What ultimately matters is how Bosh, Wade and LeBron thought and felt about it- and its clear that all 3 did not leave on good terms.

you can without a doubt say- well- they have no one to blame but themselves- and without a doubt they share the blame with the situation- but that in no way shape or form changes the fact that you had 3 guys leave that ALL BELIEVE they were mistreated. Thats a fact. All of them

Thats NOT GOOD when the best player in the world, the most beloved/accomplished player in franchise history, and your other member of the Big 3 ALL LEAVE in about a 2 year period believing that they were mistreated. You can fight that perception all you want- and give reasons, circumstances, and your own opinion all you want- but the bottom line is that in the span of just slgithly over 2 years- 3 of the most important players in franchise history left- and all on bad terms. Thats not a good look.

 

[trojanfan12]

you have Bosh talking in the media how he felt ostracized and unwanted from the Heat like they were working against him and not with him. That is crazy to me. For it to get to that point is a failure on both parties. For Bosh to feel that the Heat have essentially turned their back on him during his time of crisis is just so wrong to me. Im not saying they should relent to him playing- im saying they could have done more- even if it was just how they handled the sitatuion- to make Bosh feel like he was a valued member of the franchise- instead of a car with a busted transmission that is getting sent to the junk yard.

The bold is where you're wrong. Bosh has a condition that could cost him his life. The only outcome that would appease Bosh is him being able to play. He doesn't want to accept his situation (can't blame him for that) and needs to be angry at someone. The Heat have done nothing wrong. Hopefully, if/when he accepts his fate, he will understand that the Heat have been acting in his best interest.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The bold is where you're wrong. Bosh has a condition that could cost him his life. The only outcome that would appease Bosh is him being able to play. He doesn't want to accept his situation (can't blame him for that) and needs to be angry at someone. The Heat have done nothing wrong. Hopefully, if/when he accepts his fate, he will understand that the Heat have been acting in his best interest.

we will have to agree to disagree. When your team leader and max player and a guy who sacrificed to help bring 2 titles to your team feels his own recourse is to call out the team in the media- than you have failed. Bosh felt like the team that was supposed to support and work with him was instead working against him. Whether he was justified in that feeling or not- for it to get where it did is the type of bottom line evidence that shows failure of the front office to handle the situation.

 

[trojanfan12]

again- this is exactly what i was telling Heatles- what matters is that Bosh, LeBron and Wade all left with bad feelings towards the front office. you can justify and rationlize it anyway you want- and there are some very valid points that you bring up- what im saying is those points dont matter. What ultimately matters is how Bosh, Wade and LeBron thought and felt about it- and its clear that all 3 did not leave on good terms.

It's on the players though. The Heat have done what they could in each situation. It's not their fault that they players have decided to leave on bad terms. The acrimony has come entirely from the players.

Also, those points do matter. I think that if/when the Heat go looking for FA's, their agents will look at how the Heat conducted themselves in each situation and realize that they tried to be fair to all 3.

I think that eventually this will be like Shaq and the Lakers. When Shaq first left. he spent the next couple of seasons or so throwing a bunch of insults and Kobe and the Lakers. It was entirely one sided (which is how Lakers fans knew this was on Shaq and not the organization or Kobe), just like it is now with the Lebron, Wade and Bosh. Now, Shaq himself says that his leaving had nothing to do with Kobe and that if he had it to do over again, he probably would have stayed because he felt that he and Kobe had at least 2-3 more titles in them.

 

[WiggyRuss]

It's on the players though. The Heat have done what they could in each situation. It's not their fault that they players have decided to leave on bad terms. The acrimony has come entirely from the players.

Also, those points do matter. I think that if/when the Heat go looking for FA's, their agents will look at how the Heat conducted themselves in each situation and realize that they tried to be fair to all 3.

I think that eventually this will be like Shaq and the Lakers. When Shaq first left. he spent the next couple of seasons or so throwing a bunch of insults and Kobe and the Lakers. It was entirely one sided (which is how Lakers fans knew this was on Shaq and not the organization or Kobe), just like it is now with the Lebron, Wade and Bosh. Now, Shaq himself says that his leaving had nothing to do with Kobe and that if he had it to do over again, he probably would have stayed because he felt that he and Kobe had at least 2-3 more titles in them.

We will have to agree to disagree and make my point one last time as concise and direct as i can.

When all three of those guys leave within about a 2 year period, and all 3 leave feeling like they were mistreated- that is per se evidence that someone dropped the ball big time in the front office. You just dont have that type of thing happen without bearing plenty of responsibility yourself.

As far as i can remember- and I am younger than many of you- I cant ever remember a scenario where 3 All Stars- and not just all stars- but a local hero like Wade, the best player in the world (LeBron), and an all-NBA'er like Bosh, leave a team and all are angry about the circumstances of how they left so shortly after experiencing such great success.

You simply cant tell me that having 3 all stars leave - and all 3 of them being pissed off about the circumstances- in the span of 3 years- has nothing to do with the conduct of the front office. That just doesnt make any sense.