2016 NBA Off-Season Thread part 2

[Heatles84]

well- thats why you need both A. the deep pockets and B. the competitive fire to spend.

Paul Allen has more money than anyone and has owned the team for a long time but historically just tells his GM to stay under the cap and run the business as a business---- once i na while they will go over the cap as they have done in the past when it warrants it.

Gilbert on the other hand does not run it like a business---- like Cuban and Prokohorov and many other owners that built their immense fortunes in other industries- he treats it like a hobby. Its more important to him to get a ring and a statue and a trophy and supply the fans with a winner than it is for him to raise his net worth from 4.65 billion to 4.8 billion.

When you get an owner like THAT--- who both HAS the huge bankroll and HAS the competitive fire?--- thats when you get an A+ owner like Dan G.

you can have all the money in the world but if you stick it under a mattress what good does it do ya?--- id rather have my owner cut the league a $60 million dollar luxury tax check and have a championship....

the other owners get an equal share of that cash though- so cool for them! Glad Dan G. can subsidize some of the other guys.

You do realize that Ballmer does spend into the luxury tax on his team right? We've had this conversation with you multiple times and you simply choose to ignore it. For such a self-declared expert on the salary cap, you know full well why the Cavs are so deep in the luxury tax (@tlance pointed out you're 3rd before the JR Smith signing, so the disparity isn't *THAT* wide as you point out).

tl;dr - Lebron came back to the Cavs when their players were on their rookie contracts and they could fit Lebron's max contract in. They had their bird rights. There is a salary cap in place you dunce. Your intelligence shows when you make this uneducated rants of yours.

 

[Black Adam]

you guys just wish that your owners had the deep pockets and the competitive fire to spend like Dan G. does.

When was the last time you remembered a Cleveland team leading the league in payroll? During the 90's the Indians ran up some high payrolls but I cannot ever remember them fielding the most expensive team in the league.

The Browns?--- have always had cap space practically since they have been back- but the Browns - historically have been incompetent- all though the new regime has shown some promise. (Browns could honestly have 2 top 5 picks this year- maybe even better).

The guy is a great owner- however you guys want to spin it. Once again he will field the highest payroll in the league- employ the leagues best player- and put out a great team that is making the city proud.

When he bought the team you could just tell that he would be different than what we have had here before- and luckily for us Gilbert put together this team that finally broke the curse- and did it in extraordinary fashion in finishing off the greatest comeback in the history of the NBA.

Oh my stars and garters, here we go AGAIN...

Chinese ...water ...torture...

 

[trojanfan12]

If you don't like a writer it is likely because you're a thin skinned bitch and can't deal with being criticized.

In other words...Wiggy.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

In other words...Wiggy.

I was going to say HurricaneDJ

 

[trojanfan12]

He should have done what Lebron would do and have one of his "friends" confiscate the video.

 

[trojanfan12]

I was going to say HurricaneDJ

The difference between Wiggy and Hurricane is that Hurricane occasionally makes some worthwhile posts/threads.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

The difference between Wiggy and Hurricane is that Hurricane occasionally makes some worthwhile posts/threads.

He certainly does. But at the same time he has a hissy-fit when someone disagrees with him. BIG TIME

 

[trojanfan12]

well- thats why you need both A. the deep pockets and B. the competitive fire to spend.

Where was all of that spending when Lebron was in Miami? You know, that time when he promised Cavs fans that the Cavs would win a title before Lebron did.

Wasn't he going to do whatever it took to make that happen?

Instead, he spent as little as he could and collected NBA welfare money while allowing his team to tank every season.

Gilbert has only been willing to spend when he's had Lebron. That's not "competitive fire" or even a "plan," it's opportunism.

Btw, other than the fact that he didn't deliver on the promise he made to Cavs fans when Lebron left, that's not a criticism. Lebron returning presented an opportunity, he took it and so far, it has resulted in 2 finals appearances and a championship.

But let's not pretend it's "competitive fire" or a "plan." Competitive fire and a plan would have been shown if he actually did or at least tried to do what he promised when Lebron left.

 

[Black Adam]

I was going to say HurricaneDJ

will say one thing in blubber boy's favor(probably for the LAST time this year), despite his obvious bias and being a total shit stain he DOES know a thing or two about the game...

 

[trojanfan12]

He certainly does. But at the same time he has a hissy-fit when someone disagrees with him. BIG TIME

True. But I'll take the occasional hissy fit mixed in with some solid posts and threads over the bullshit that Wiggy brings any day of the week.

 

[Black Adam]

He should have done what Lebron would do and have one of his "friends" confiscate the video.

WAS gonna mention that this probably sent "the King" down a trip through memory lane, but i thought i'd be kind about it...

 

[bksballer89]

The difference between Wiggy and Hurricane is that Hurricane occasionally makes some worthwhile posts/threads.

Yeah to be fair to Cane, he's a new poster when he wants to be. Create great threads

 

[Heatles84]

I was going to say HurricaneDJ

Both are acceptable answers.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Where was all of that spending when Lebron was in Miami? You know, that time when he promised Cavs fans that the Cavs would win a title before Lebron did.

Wasn't he going to do whatever it took to make that happen?

Instead, he spent as little as he could and collected NBA welfare money while allowing his team to tank every season.

you know where it was- taking bad contracts like Luke Walton off the Lakers for draft assets....taking bad contracts off the Grizzlies like Speights and Ellington for draft assets.....taking bad contracts off the Clippers like Baron Davis.......

what do you think helps a team more? if the Cavs would have signed some middling vet and used all their cap space- or keeping open cap space to absorb Baron Davis- which turned into the Kyrie Irving pick and was INSTRUMENTAL in getting the Cavs the Championship? I bet they are really pissed they didnt sign some second rate free agent insteadof keeping that cap space open to take advantage of teams trying to get rid of salary....instead of getting Irving they could have got someone like Luol Deng!

I realize that strategy and cap management is lost on the casual fan.

The lakers- did this to a SMALL extent with Linn and getting a Houston first rounder- but did not take nearly the advantage of it that the Thunder, Cavs, Sixers, and other teams have done.

 

[trojanfan12]

you know where it was- taking bad contracts like Luke Walton off the Lakers for draft assets....taking bad contracts off the Grizzlies like Speights and Ellington for draft assets.....taking bad contracts off the Clippers like Baron Davis.......

what do you think helps a team more? if the Cavs would have signed some middling vet and used all their cap space- or keeping open cap space to absorb Baron Davis- which turned into the Kyrie Irving pick and was INSTRUMENTAL in getting the Cavs the Championship? I bet they are really pissed they didnt sign some second rate free agent insteadof keeping that cap space open to take advantage of teams trying to get rid of salary....instead of getting Irving they could have got someone like Luol Deng!

I realize that strategy and cap management is lost on the casual fan.

The lakers- did this to a SMALL extent with Linn and getting a Houston first rounder- but did not take nearly the advantage of it that the Thunder, Cavs, Sixers, and other teams have done.

In other words, there was no competitive fire and no plan. He tanked. Period. If he had competitive fire...if he had a plan...he would have been going after difference making FA's and doing everything in his power to fulfill his promise.

Instead, he sat in the corner, took on bad contracts and collected NBA welfare while Lebron was winning championships in Miami.

You can try to spin it however you want. The FACT is that he said he was going to make sure the Cavs won a title before Lebron did. He not only didn't keep that promise. He didn't even try.

Additionally, the Lakers didn't make the promise to fans that Gilbert did. In fact, the Lakers were forthcoming and said that if the Dwight/Nash deal didn't work out, they were going to be rebuilding and it was going to be rough. That's why most Lakers fans have been willing to be patient over these past few years.

 

[WiggyRuss]

In other words, there was no competitive fire and no plan. He tanked. Period. If he had competitive fire...if he had a plan...he would have been going after difference making FA's and doing everything in his power to fulfill his promise.

Instead, he sat in the corner, took on bad contracts and collected NBA welfare while Lebron was winning championships in Miami.

You can try to spin it however you want. The FACT is that he said he was going to make sure the Cavs won a title before Lebron did. He not only didn't keep that promise. He didn't even try.

Additionally, the Lakers didn't make the promise to fans that Gilbert did. In fact, the Lakers were forthcoming and said that if the Dwight/Nash deal didn't work out, they were going to be rebuilding and it was going to be rough.

like the Heat did after LeBron left? See where that has them- a difficult rebuild with a serious lack of future draft assets.

The goal wasnt to save face and win a playoff series- the goal is to win a title- thats why Gilbert bought the team.

I dont understand how you fail to realize the best way to make the team better was to tank....i mean- you are seeing the SAME thing with your Lakers!

the Cavs ABSOLUTELY stripped the team down to nothing, cut the payroll, sucked, rented out their cap space and did little besides try and develop talent and collect assets for 3 full seasons.

the proof is in the pudding pal. Gilbert was right. His strategy worked. Championship.

Its what OKC did...its what the Sixers are doing.

Id take the Sixers team over the Heats without a SECOND THOUGHT right now. One team wanted to stay competitive- one team tanked....One team has a bright future with tons of assets- the other onei s stranded between not being bad enough to get a high pick- and not good enough to make any noise--- THAT and missing multiple future first rounders.

Easy decision for me and most.

 

[trojanfan12]

like the Heat did after LeBron left? See where that has them- a difficult rebuild with a serious lack of future draft assets.

The goal wasnt to save face and win a playoff series- the goal is to win a title- thats why Gilbert bought the team.

I dont understand how you realize the best way to make the team better was to tank....i mean- you are seeing the SAME thing with your Lakers!

the Cavs ABSOLUTELY stripped the team down to nothing, cut the payroll, sucked, rented out their cap space and did little besides try and develop talent and collect assets for 3 full seasons.

the proof is in the pudding pal. Gilbert was right. His strategy worked.

Again, only proves that there was no "competitive fire" and no "plan."

Gilberts words were "we will win a championship before that traitor." He said he would do everything in his power to make sure it happened.

He didn't even try. If he had competitive fire, he would have been doing everything in his power to win a title before Lebron just so he could say "Fuck You. I told you we'd do it."

Instead, he tanked for 4 years and then bent over and let Lebron go in dry.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Again, only proves that there was no "competitive fire" and no "plan."

Gilberts words were "we will win a championship before that traitor." He said he would do everything in his power to make sure it happened.

He didn't even try. If he had competitive fire, he would have been doing everything in his power to win a title before Lebron just so he could say "Fuck You. I told you we'd do it."

Instead, he tanked for 4 years and then bent over and let Lebron go in dry.

REALLY REALLY dry....lol....

and ya know what?he loved every minute and laughed all the way to the bank (and the parade).

he was right.

He is now an icon that was the owner of the team that brought Cleveland its first title in 60 years- while carrying by far the highest payroll in the league.

One day- there will be a statue of Gilbert in Gateway Plaza between the Q and Progressive field commemorating the owner that broke the curse- and perhaps the most important move that he made- the absolute building block that was instrumental in drawing LeBron James back to Cleveland was getting Kyrie Irving....the Cavs only got Kyrie Irving because an owner of a big market team wanted to save money and got helped by an owner of a small market team when he took $40 million of Baron Davis' bad money.

Of course- instead of doing that- they probably should have just signed some 2nd tier vet that could teach the young guys the ropes while sucking up their shot opportunities. THATS REAL COMPETITIVE FIRE RIGHT THERE!

 

[trojanfan12]

REALLY REALLY dry....lol....

and ya know what?

he was right.

He is now an icon that was the owner of the team that brought Cleveland its first title in 60 years- while carrying by far the highest payroll in the league.

One day- there will be a statue of Gilbert in Gateway Plaza between the Q and Progressive field commemorating the owner that broke the curse- and perhaps the most important move that he made- the absolute building block that was instrumental in drawing LeBron James back to Cleveland was getting Kyrie Irving....the Cavs only got Kyrie Irving because an owner of a big market team wanted to save money and got helped by an owner of a small market team when he took $40 million of Baron Davis' bad money.

Of course- instead of doing that- they probably should have just signed some 2nd tier vet that could teach the young guys the ropes while sucking up their shot opportunities. THATS FIRE RIGHT THERE!

I never said things didn't work out. Clearly they did. But as usual, you are trying desperately to avoid the real point.

The real point is that Gilbert made a promise to Cavs fans and had neither the "competitive fire" nor the "plan" to make it happen...or even try.

He tanked, collected NBA welfare money and then when Lebron wanted to return, he handed over his manhood. Lebron wanting to come back is the only reason the Cavs are where they are.

As for your last paragraph of stupidity...wake me when the Cavs have 5 championships with Lebron like the Lakers won with Kobe.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I never said things didn't work out. Clearly they did. But as usual, you are trying desperately to avoid the real point.

The real point is that Gilbert made a promise to Cavs fans and had neither the "competitive fire" nor the "plan" to make it happen...or even try.

He tanked, collected and NBA welfare money and then when Lebron wanted to return, he handed over his manhood. Lebron wanting to come back is the only reason the Cavs are where they are.

As for your last paragraph of stupidity...wake me when the Cavs have 5 championships with Lebron like the Lakers won with Kobe.

what you dont realize is THAT WAS THE PLAN.

likethe Lakers before their rebuild- the cupboard was dry!!! There was nothing left! Mo Williams, Andy Varejao, JJ Hickson- THATS IT...everyone else was over the hill.

The GOAL WAS TO WIN THE TITLE. You dont win a title signing 2nd tier vets that will DO NOTHING besides help you win too many games so you dont get an elitedr aft pick.

I mean - could u imagine the colossal fuck up it it would have been for the Lakers to sign an extra vet or two last yea and win an extra 10 games and get Sabonis instead of Ingram? Is this something that you just fail to recognize?

The Cavs went from worst team in the league to championship in RECORD TIME. If you, me, ANYONE out there would have said- Dan Gilbert will win the championship within 6 years of that night when LeBron took his talents to south beach- you would have been institutionalized........you should be acknowledging his freaking GENIUS with what he pulled off to steal LeBron back from a place where he won 2 titles.

The Cavs rebuild was freaking HISTORIC for how quickly it happened all considering....that is beyond a doubt 100% truthful.