2016-17 NBA Regular Season Thread

[bksballer89]

I mean it's all well and good if you just want to totally disregard defense. The thing that kept the Cavs elite was their combination of good defense with elite offense. Now they have an Elite offense, but a terrible defense. The thing is you can win games where you have bad offensive games, but play good defense. You can't win a game if you're bad offensively though, and hope to rely on a bad defensive.

So if you're fine with that, then more power to you and good luck.

Yeah disregarding defense when it comes to winning a title is hilarious.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I think Derrick Williams will eventually fall out of the rotation. Only 8 minutes last night and that was without Korver or Love playing. Not a good sign at all

depends on the matchup.

last night is a game where they def. could have used bogut- and a tweener like derrick was just not gonna get run.

I do have Derrick as 10th on that list for a reason though- but do think he will play dependnt on the matchup- as will be much the same with Frye- i would say those 2 are fairly mutually exclusive to eachother.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I mean it's all well and good if you just want to totally disregard defense. The thing that kept the Cavs elite was their combination of good defense with elite offense. Now they have an Elite offense, but a terrible defense. The thing is you can win games where you have bad offensive games, but play good defense. You can't win a game if you're bad offensively though, and hope to rely on a bad defensive.

So if you're fine with that, then more power to you and good luck.

im not saying defense isnt important- im saying their defense is off from last year becuase they have had very little continuity- its not a personnel issue or a systems issue or an effort issue (though at times it has been an effort issue)- its an issue of no one knowing what their roles are and having no familiarity with eachother.

 

[CitySushi]

Yeah disregarding defense when it comes to winning a title is hilarious.

I mean it's hilarious when all you hear about is Kyrie hitting one of the most clutch shots in NBA history.

Yes he did that.

But that's not the reason they won. The Cavs held a historic offensive team to 89 points in game 7 of the NBA finals on their home floor. That's why the Cavs won. Kyrie gets the glory, but the Cavs, as a team, won that game.

 

[CitySushi]

im not saying defense isnt important- im saying their defense is off from last year becuase they have had very little continuity- its not a personnel issue or a systems issue or an effort issue (though at times it has been an effort issue)- its an issue of no one knowing what their roles are and having no familiarity with eachother.

So absolutely serious question, do you think that with a bit more time to gel, this Cavs team as currently constructed gets better defensively?

 

[WiggyRuss]

So absolutely serious question, do you think that with a bit more time to gel, this Cavs team as currently constructed gets better defensively?

absolutely.....getting Jr and Love back will help a lot. Not only that- but in the playoffs the game becomes a lot more half-court, and guys like LeBron can push it more defensively with guaranteed off days.

i mean- like i said- right now its like training camp to a certain extent for them. Every day its new guys in and out of the lineup....i mean- at least JR knows the system- but if he plays just a decent game the Cavs prob win yesterday (instead of going 1-9)...

and Deron Williams- i LOVE him bringing hte ball up -esp. in the half court- i was so frustrated with kyrie at the beginning of the 4th just totally dominating the ball with Deron on the court- but thats the kind of stuff you need to work out.

so much of it is a function of energy and sharing the ball too- when they are sharing the ball and getting everyone involved offensively like they did amazingly in december and february- the defense plays better--- when the offense is stagnant like it was in january and has been in march- they get lethargic and lazy on defense.

kevin love's defensive rebounding is a huge plus to their defense as well. TT is a great rebounder- but he gives up a lot of size to a guy like drummond- having love in their pulls a guy out of the middle and kills the other teams rebounding- while defensively his defensive rebounding keeps the teams off the offensive glass a million times better than frye or derrick williams does.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Used to drink Everclear ever so often while in the Corps. Yeah............the regrets. What it is to be young. My 30's are going to be a shit sho.....interesting.

i went to college near a prominent air force base--- my one buddys dad was inth e service so we could get on their to get duty free liquor....i remember getting like a bunch of kegs and ever clear for a party one time...

my buddy making the ever clear punch passed out in our "attic" (that was like another rec room)bec ause he got too drunk before the party even started.....

of course during the party he gets a bag of flour dumped on him while he is passed out....of course during the party 2 of my other roomates are blacked out and start knockng out windows with bar stools with the whole party cheering the entire time...

eventually the kegs get kicked, we leave to go out (at like 2 am)....walking back to the house at about 6 am with my buddy who knocked out a lot of the windows- he says he is going to call the cops and just say we found it like that when we got home.....

we try and hide all kinds of damaging evidence before the cops get there (kegs- not allowed, bongs, a christmas tree we cut down from a park, etc.) before the cops get there.....

as soon as the cops get there- they are surveying the damage- and my buddy who madethe punch and passed out at like 9 pm the previous night finally wakesu p- looks out the attic window at about 7 am and sees cops at the house...he walks down wearing nothing but boxers- absolutely covered in flour (he didnt realize he was coated in flour), and starts freaking out in front of the cops because he sees the destruction of all the windowstha t were busted the night before while he was passed out....the cops look at him - covered in flour and are at a complete loss.

the cops did not buy the explanation- and the culprits (2 of my crazier roomates) had to pay for the windows.......our landlord HATED us- my one buddy who also became a lawyer, would get naked and blast p o r n o from his room whenevers she (the landlord) came around to inspect.....

they actually took empty kegs that we hid in the near by cemetary, put them on our property- made a tag that said "property (Of our address)" and gave us a keg fine too...


ohh the good ole days...thank goodness thestat ute of limations has run on that stuff. lol.

 

[larryjohn]

I mean it's all well and good if you just want to totally disregard defense. The thing that kept the Cavs elite was their combination of good defense with elite offense. Now they have an Elite offense, but a terrible defense. The thing is you can win games where you have bad offensive games, but play good defense. You can't win a game if you're bad offensively though, and hope to rely on a bad defensive.
So if you're fine with that, then more power to you and good luck.

If the Finals were this week -- the Cavs would be in trouble.

 

[CitySushi]

If the Finals were this week -- the Cavs would be in trouble.

So would the Warriors, tbh.

 

[trojanfan12]

I see Wiggy is setting up his excuses in case the Cavs don't win the title this year.

And if you're depending on the return of Kevin Love to help your defense, you really are in bad shape defensively.

 

[Heatles84]

So absolutely serious question, do you think that with a bit more time to gel, this Cavs team as currently constructed gets better defensively?

No. They'll be better offensively given that they added Deron Williams and Kyle Korver. But the latter has never been a good defender, let alone average. The Cavs moves have them more geared towards getting into a shootout with Golden State. If healthy, that's not something I'd want to do with them. That's the one thing I'll give that annoying shit, Delly credit for. He was similar to Patrick Beverly where he would just harass someone all game and put up a good couple of buckets per game.

 

[WiggyRuss]

So would the Warriors, tbh.

both teams look crappy right now because of injuries--- but i dont know anyone who would have the cojones to pick against either one making the Finals.

 

[Heatles84]

So would the Warriors, tbh.

The Spurs right now would feast on Cleveland AND Golden State. They're looking really scary.

 

[WiggyRuss]

No. They'll be better offensively given that they added Deron Williams and Kyle Korver. But the latter has never been a good defender, let alone average. The Cavs moves have them more geared towards getting into a shootout with Golden State. If healthy, that's not something I'd want to do with them. That's the one thing I'll give that annoying shit, Delly credit for. He was similar to Patrick Beverly where he would just harass someone all game and put up a good couple of buckets per game.

yah...were fucked without delly

in the Cavs 4 wins against Golden State in the Finals Delly played a combined 13 minutes....

no- NOT 13 minutes A GAME...13 minutes TOTAL....

its a fucking devastating loss. lol.

 

[Heatles84]

yah...were fucked without delly

in the Cavs 4 wins against Golden State in the Finals Delly played a combined 13 minutes....

no- NOT 13 minutes A GAME...13 minutes TOTAL....

its a fucking devastating loss. lol.

Yeah that defense of yours is just fine. Nothing to see here.

 

[CitySushi]

i know....Delly was such a huge part of the Cavs winning the championship last year...those 13 minutes (most of which occurred in the 1st win which was a blowout) are going to be just impossible to replace....maybe not as hard as those 11 minutes from mozgov (7 of which were in the game 1 blow out)

between the two players they played a combined NINE MINUTES in the last 3 wins were just crucial.......not 9 minutes combined per game--- 9 minutest TOTAL combined for the last 3 games...i mean that works out to what?....each guy played 1.5 minutes per game during the historic comeback?......obviously they were both crucial to the Cavs defense and that comeback.

i just have no clue how they replace productivity like that.....

It's not those guys who are causing the defense to be terrible. It's the guys you have right now on the team. Look at these numbers:

2015-2016
Defensive Ratings

Kyrie Irving - 106
Lebron James - 103
Tristan Thompson - 104
Kevin Love - 102
Iman Shumpert - 103
Channing Frye - 104
Richard Jefferson - 107

2016-2017
Defensive Ratings
Kyrie Irving - 112
Lebron James - 108
Tristan Thompson - 108
Kevin Love - 106
Iman Shumpert - 111
Channing Frye - 109
Richard Jefferson - 113

Across the board, the Cavs main guys are significantly worse on defense this year. These are your core guys and across the board as a whole they've all been really bad.

 

[LAD]

Agreed. But this year could be their best shot, because after paying those guys they will lose more depth like Livingston and probably Iguodala

I don't think they will lose Iggy. I think he takes less than he could get elsewhere to stay. Livingston might leave though.

 

[WiggyRuss]

It's not those guys who are causing the defense to be terrible. It's the guys you have right now on the team. Look at these numbers:

2015-2016
Defensive Ratings

Kyrie Irving - 106
Lebron James - 103
Tristan Thompson - 104
Kevin Love - 102
Iman Shumpert - 103
Channing Frye - 104
Richard Jefferson - 107

2016-2017
Defensive Ratings
Kyrie Irving - 112
Lebron James - 108
Tristan Thompson - 108
Kevin Love - 106
Iman Shumpert - 111
Channing Frye - 109
Richard Jefferson - 113

Across the board, the Cavs main guys are significantly worse on defense this year. These are your core guys and across the board as a whole they've all been really bad.

and thats exactly what i am saying- its not a personnel issue and its not a systems issue- to me- its a combination of complacency and a lack of continuity.

if it was a personnel issue or systems issue it would worry me since you cant fix those overnight- esp. after the deadline.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I don't think they will lose Iggy. I think he takes less than he could get elsewhere to stay. Livingston might leave though.

thats just not based on reality. do you even know how much tehy can offer iggy? if you did you wouldnt think that.

 

[gordontrue]

This list of all-time career Box Plus-Minus is pretty interesting. I really think we might be enjoying a golden age right now in the NBA.