2015-16 NBA Eastern Conference OFFICIAL THREAD

[WiggyRuss]

I'll agree that there was no consensus #1 that year, but nobody was talking Bennett.
I, personally always liked Oladipo because I remember lots of experts were comparing his game to Wades.

Oladipo came out of no where though and was a junior which raised some red flags. He was looked at as a probable 2nd round guy until he broke out his junior year at Indiana. Sometimes a guy that raises that fast and is as far along as a junior gets discounted a little because the scouts figure they have already done a fair bit of maturing.

Oladipo I think was the surest thing to be a decent NBA guy, but his ceiling was not what some other guys were thought to be.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

that's about where I was thinking...and mostly because the Cavs are in the east...

I thought it was just ludicrous to say they'd be a TWO seed without him...

guessing Wiggy said that...?

No.
The new rookie here, and he didn't say the Cavs would have been a 2 seed.

I said Cavs prob don't get out or round 1 without James on the roster, and he questioned whether the Cavs roster - James beats the Celts.

He just overlooked the fact that they wouldn't have played the Celts

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Oladipo came out of no where though and was a junior which raised some red flags. He was looked at as a probable 2nd round guy until he broke out his junior year at Indiana. Sometimes a guy that raises that fast and is as far along as a junior gets discounted a little because the scouts figure they have already done a fair bit of maturing.

Oladipo I think was the surest thing to be a decent NBA guy, but his ceiling was not what some other guys were thought to be.

I agree with all of this.
Couldn't the same have been said about Wade before his junior year and Final 4 run?

That's why he was my pick.
There certainly were other choices that made sense.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

a LOT of hate going around here.

And it really cracks me up someone saying the Cavs did a poor job rebuilding. They did EXACTLY the thing you want to do in the NBA - bottom out, clear cap space, acquire extra draft picks, get some value for the vets.

it ESPECIALLY cracks me up hearing it from a Lakers fan seeing as how that rebuild has been a disaster. This will be the 4th straight year the Lakers fail to win a playoff game. They let Howard and Gasol walk for nothing. They STILL OWE 1st round draft picks out to Orlando AND Philly for Nash and Howard.

The Cavs go out there and execute on their cap space to bring in multiple extra 1st round picks. They spend HUGE to get an unprotected lotto pick that hits big- and fill the roster with so much talent that in 4 years LeBron says- "Im coming back". Truly- the Cavs did a 100% rebuild in the span on 4 years.

There are some teams out there that will be EXTREMELY lucky if they are title contenders in 6-7 years...let alone after 4.

All the Cavs had at the end of the 2009 2010 season was a bunch of pretty decent vets that were mostly overpaid that were good complimentary players to LeBron- and then a couple young guys like Hickson and Gibson. Basically nothing in terms of value for building a team.

So- anyone can say what they want to- the facts are right there in front of everyone. In 4 years the Cavs went from a total rebuild- to being favorites to get to the Finals. Ill be interested to see how long the other rebuilding processes' last around the league. LOL

Gilbert's letter didn't mention bottoming out, clearing cap spade and rebuilding.
He promised a ring before James won in Miami, correct?
That means make moves and spend the money to win now.
Of course, anyone with a brain knew he was a lunatic for thinking it, but he must have, right?
Or why embarrass yourself and write it?

You can write 100000 words on the subject but you can't change the facts.

 

[trojanfan12]

a LOT of hate going around here.

And it really cracks me up someone saying the Cavs did a poor job rebuilding. They did EXACTLY the thing you want to do in the NBA - bottom out, clear cap space, acquire extra draft picks, get some value for the vets.

it ESPECIALLY cracks me up hearing it from a Lakers fan seeing as how that rebuild has been a disaster. This will be the 4th straight year the Lakers fail to win a playoff game. They let Howard and Gasol walk for nothing. They STILL OWE 1st round draft picks out to Orlando AND Philly for Nash and Howard.

The Cavs go out there and execute on their cap space to bring in multiple extra 1st round picks. They spend HUGE to get an unprotected lotto pick that hits big- and fill the roster with so much talent that in 4 years LeBron says- "Im coming back". Truly- the Cavs did a 100% rebuild in the span on 4 years.

There are some teams out there that will be EXTREMELY lucky if they are title contenders in 6-7 years...let alone after 4.

All the Cavs had at the end of the 2009 2010 season was a bunch of pretty decent vets that were mostly overpaid that were good complimentary players to LeBron- and then a couple young guys like Hickson and Gibson. Basically nothing in terms of value for building a team.

So- anyone can say what they want to- the facts are right there in front of everyone. In 4 years the Cavs went from a total rebuild- to being favorites to get to the Finals. Ill be interested to see how long the other rebuilding processes' last around the league. LOL

Once again trying to deflect from the facts and the actual discussion.

Here are the facts about the Cavs rebuild:

Fact - Gilbert guaranteed a title for the Cavs before Lebron got one.
Fact - Gilbert did not even make an effort to build a competitive team.
Fact - Lebron won 2 titles with the Heat while the Cavs tanked.
Fact - Gilbert got lucky in the lottery. There is no skill in getting to the lottery because there's no skill to losing.
Fact - The Lakers aren't part of the discussion
Fact - The Cavs rebuild was done on losing and luck.

 

[trojanfan12]

You can write 100000 words on the subject but you can't change the facts.

But he will, try. Oh Lord, how he will try.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

a LOT of hate going around here.

And it really cracks me up someone saying the Cavs did a poor job rebuilding. They did EXACTLY the thing you want to do in the NBA - bottom out, clear cap space, acquire extra draft picks, get some value for the vets.

it ESPECIALLY cracks me up hearing it from a Lakers fan seeing as how that rebuild has been a disaster. This will be the 4th straight year the Lakers fail to win a playoff game. They let Howard and Gasol walk for nothing. They STILL OWE 1st round draft picks out to Orlando AND Philly for Nash and Howard.

The Cavs go out there and execute on their cap space to bring in multiple extra 1st round picks. They spend HUGE to get an unprotected lotto pick that hits big- and fill the roster with so much talent that in 4 years LeBron says- "Im coming back". Truly- the Cavs did a 100% rebuild in the span on 4 years.

There are some teams out there that will be EXTREMELY lucky if they are title contenders in 6-7 years...let alone after 4.

All the Cavs had at the end of the 2009 2010 season was a bunch of pretty decent vets that were mostly overpaid that were good complimentary players to LeBron- and then a couple young guys like Hickson and Gibson. Basically nothing in terms of value for building a team.

So- anyone can say what they want to- the facts are right there in front of everyone. In 4 years the Cavs went from a total rebuild- to being favorites to get to the Finals. Ill be interested to see how long the other rebuilding processes' last around the league. LOL

The Cavs have been a rebuilding process for decades in any season without James, and will be again forever once he's done there.
The real test is building a winner without the best player in the league, right?

 

[WiggyRuss]

Once again trying to deflect from the facts and the actual discussion.

Here are the facts about the Cavs rebuild:

Fact - Gilbert guaranteed a title for the Cavs before Lebron got one.
Fact - Gilbert did not even make an effort to build a competitive team.
Fact - Lebron won 2 titles with the Heat while the Cavs tanked.
Fact - Gilbert got lucky in the lottery. There is no skill in getting to the lottery because there's no skill to losing.
Fact - The Lakers aren't part of the discussion
Fact - The Cavs rebuild was done on losing and luck.

the difference between my posts and yours is that I use facts and you just use conclusory remarks with absolutely no back up.

And absolutely you compare around the league. The Cavs did it the way the Sonics had done it before- and the Sixers are doing it after. Renting out their cap space to acquire assets while bottoming out and getting high lotto picks to try and get a Westbrook or Irving. Really though- you can get that extra draft pick that turns into Ibaka or whatever like the Thunder did- but it comes down to getting that elite player another big player wants to play with. Durant and RW. Irving/Love/LEBron. Sixers just havent got that guy yet all though Okafor surprsingly impressed me tonight. The Lakers arent as screwed as the Nets- who owe picks and have to switch selections in every draft from here till forever- so i wouldnt put them in the NEts category- or Knicks category- though- like Cleveland when it started out- years of trying to "win now" causd the lakers to trade picks and the team was pretty much devoid of young talent- (like the Cavs were) at hte beginning of the rebuild.

Its just nice to be a fan of a team like the Cavs who- instead of just losing season after season and not making any moves- tried to expedite the process by acquiring a ton of extra first round pciks- one that ends up being the #1 overall pick and the first major stone laid in a rebuild that puts the Cavs as title favorites this year.

The lesson is- you can do things to speed up a rebuild- like the Cavs did, like the Thunder did, like the Sixers are doing- but at some point you gotta hit big. The Sixers havent hit big. The Cavs did with Kyrie. and then again with Wiggins- and voila- The title favorites.

 

[WiggyRuss]

the facts are beyond simple

in 4 years the Cavs totally rebuilt the team into a loaded title contender.

anything else is just noise and jealousy.

 

[WiggyRuss]

to be honest with you the best rebuilds are in the West right now - the Twolves and Jazz.

Twolves are loaded. Towns looks like hes going to be a top 25 guy before long. Wiggins looks like he is going to be an all star. Rubio is still very young and looks to be improved.

and the Jazz. Rudy Gobert is a top 5 defensive player in the league and is only going to get better. Gordon Heyward is a top 30 guy. Exum looked great last year- sucks he got hurt this year. Favors is a best.

I really think the Sixers could have done alot better job. its hard to kill them for embiid- but i didnt want embiid- 1 great year at Kansas and very raw post moves? Honestly- i could have seen Julius Randle go #3 without a problem that year and wouldnt have faulted the Sixers at all.

 

[Black Adam]

Gilbert's letter didn't mention bottoming out, clearing cap spade and rebuilding.
He promised a ring before James won in Miami, correct?
That means make moves and spend the money to win now.
Of course, anyone with a brain knew he was a lunatic for thinking it, but he must have, right?
Or why embarrass yourself and write it?

You can write 100000 words on the subject but you can't change the facts.

don't tempt that man, he'll DO it...

ain't there a SportsHoopla rule against filibusters...?

 

[trojanfan12]

the difference between my posts and yours is that I use facts and you just use conclusory remarks with absolutely no back up.

Everything I posted was a fact. Everything you have posted has been a deflection. You haven't posted a single fact re: the following:

Fact - Gilbert guaranteed a title for the Cavs before Lebron got one.
Fact - Gilbert did not even make an effort to build a competitive team.
Fact - Lebron won 2 titles with the Heat while the Cavs tanked.
Fact - Gilbert got lucky in the lottery. There is no skill in getting to the lottery because there's no skill to losing.
Fact - The Lakers aren't part of the discussion
Fact - The Cavs rebuild was done on losing and luck.

The above are all facts based on what Gilbert claimed he was going to do and what actually happened. You can deflect and re-write history all you want. Gilbert had no great plan outside of losing and hoping for lottery luck. He guaranteed a title before Lebron got one and the Cavs are still stuck on zero.

 

[trojanfan12]

the facts are beyond simple

in 4 years the Cavs completely tanked and counted on losing and luck.

anything else is just deflection.

fify

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

the facts are beyond simple

in 4 years the Cavs totally rebuilt the team into a loaded title contender.

anything else is just noise and jealousy.

Cavs became a contender cause James returned.

You could put him on numerous mediocre teams in the East with the current rosters they have and they'd elevate to the same position


Your way over analyzing why the Cavs are where they are.

The proof to support that is that the 2 biggest assets the Cavs have besides James weren't available for the only series that really mattered and James + mediocre roster held there own.

 

[WiggyRuss]

- LeBron James became the youngest player to reach 25,000 career points, leading the Cleveland Cavaliers past the winless Philadelphia 76ers 107-100 on Monday night.


Lebron continuing to make history.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Cavs became a contender cause James returned.

You could put him on numerous mediocre teams in the East with the current rosters they have and they'd elevate to the same position


Your way over analyzing why the Cavs are where they are.

The proof to support that is that the 2 biggest assets the Cavs have besides James weren't available for the only series that really mattered and James + mediocre roster held there own.

of course they become a title contender because James return- but like the Lakers learned this past year- if you dont have the guys to attract the player- he AINT COMIN....if the Cavs would have sat on their hands and shit themselves the last 4 years and had nothing juicy to offer James- he stays in Miami.

Instead? Cmon Bron- come play with Kyrie IRving, come play with Kevin Love....Come play with a 170 million dollar payroll-

IF the Cavs drafted Deron Williams (not deron williams- what was that asshoes name from Arizona that signed with the kncisk?) instead of Kyrie Irving - or Just didnt make the Baron Davis trade in the first place where Gilbert basically paid 40 million for the #1 overall pick- James is still in Miami. THANKS DONALD STERLING!!!!! (sorry Mecca)

 

[trojanfan12]

Cavs became a contender cause James returned.

You could put him on numerous mediocre teams in the East with the current rosters they have and they'd elevate to the same position


Your way over analyzing why the Cavs are where they are.

The proof to support that is that the 2 biggest assets the Cavs have besides James weren't available for the only series that really mattered and James + mediocre roster held there own.

Heck, put Lebron on the Lakers and they're probably looking at a top 5 spot in the West. It's amazing what having the best player in the league will do for a teams fortunes.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

of course they become a title contender because James return- but like the Lakers learned this past year- if you dont have the guys to attract the player- he AINT COMIN....if the Cavs would have sat on their hands and shit themselves the last 4 years and had nothing juicy to offer James- he stays in Miami.

Instead? Cmon Bron- come play with Kyrie IRving, come play with Kevin Love....Come play with a 170 million dollar payroll-

IF the Cavs drafted Deron Williams (not deron williams- what was that asshoes name from Arizona that signed with the kncisk?) instead of Kyrie Irving - or Just didnt make the Baron Davis trade in the first place where Gilbert basically paid 40 million for the #1 overall pick- James is still in Miami. THANKS DONALD STERLING!!!!! (sorry Mecca)

The Lakers had nothing left because they had to use what they had to get to where they were.
Championship teams don't collect young assets.

Let's see how many new assets the Cavs accumulate while James is there vs how many they deploy while attempting to get the veterans they need to form the type of roster James wants.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

of course they become a title contender because James return- but like the Lakers learned this past year- if you dont have the guys to attract the player- he AINT COMIN....if the Cavs would have sat on their hands and shit themselves the last 4 years and had nothing juicy to offer James- he stays in Miami.

Instead? Cmon Bron- come play with Kyrie IRving, come play with Kevin Love....Come play with a 170 million dollar payroll-

IF the Cavs drafted Deron Williams (not deron williams- what was that asshoes name from Arizona that signed with the kncisk?) instead of Kyrie Irving - or Just didnt make the Baron Davis trade in the first place where Gilbert basically paid 40 million for the #1 overall pick- James is still in Miami. THANKS DONALD STERLING!!!!! (sorry Mecca)

Sitting on your hands really isn't an option.
How's all the assets the 76ers accumulated working out?

Cavs got lucky between lotto balls and Nike forming a money making/ good publicity campaign sending James home.
The master plan that you seem to think happen, never did.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Wasn't Gilbert and the Cavs front office the bunch that thought signing Bynum a couple years ago was a prudent idea?