2015-16 NBA Eastern Conference OFFICIAL THREAD

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Nope- you said the other day you would take a Cavs Heat bet if I took your Cavs field bet....if u want to back out though i understand....

I did say that, and I would, but I never said the bets should or would be equal.
You think that's fair?
PLUS, they might never play, so how do you factor that in?

 

[WiggyRuss]

I did say that, and I would, but I never said the bets should or would be equal.
You think that's fair?
PLUS, they might never play, so how do you factor that in?

if they dont play and its because the Heat lost before hand I win- if they dont play and its because the Cavs lost before hand you win. Easy.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I've given my opinion on the significance of Finals winning percentage too many times already... so I'm going to bite my tongue and not mention how absurd I think it is that it has been referenced as many times as it has in this discussion

And I've also taken you're position, but as Trojan pointed out awhile back, that years from now, nobody will remember opponent or circumstance.
They'll just see numbers, and if those numbers are 2/3 losses in the Finals, it wont look good.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

if they dont play and its because the Heat lost before hand I win- if they dont play and its because the Cavs lost before hand you win. Easy.

That makes no sense, the bet would be Heat vs Cavs, not if the Heat is good enough to beat others to get to the Cavs.

 

[WiggyRuss]

And I've also taken you're position, but as Trojan pointed out awhile back, that years from now, nobody will remember opponent or circumstance.
They'll just see numbers, and if those numbers are 2/3 losses in the Finals, it wont look good.

what they will probably see is LeBron making about 10 straight Finals which is UNHEARD of in a 30 team league like today and absolutely be stunned to see it because its unlikely to happen again.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

what they will probably see is LeBron making about 10 straight Finals which is UNHEARD of in a 30 team league like today and absolutely be stunned to see it because its unlikely to happen again.

Keep dreaming.

 

[WiggyRuss]

That makes no sense, the bet would be Heat vs Cavs, not if the Heat is good enough to beat others to get to the Cavs.

hey if your asking me to take the Cavs over the Spurs and Warriors thats what it is.

I really have no sympathy for you if the Heat are too big of chokers to even make it to the Cavs in the East.

 

[trojanfan12]

Gordon- Steve Kerr has 5 rings...Robert Horry 7--- did you know they are better than LeBron? lol

oh cmon...Robert Horry HAS to be better than Charles Barkley right?

Aah, the old "Robert Horry is better" desperation argument. Get back to me when Robert Horry becomes known as an all-time great.

Bottom line, winning in Cleveland elevates Lebron over exactly no one. Lebron would be 3-4 in the finals = not good enough.

 

[trojanfan12]

Hakeem is 100% in Finals appearances.
Magic is 55%.

Everyone knows Magic couldn't always get it done when it really mattered, whereas Hakeem always stepped up when the games really counted.

Hakeem would have zero titles if MJ doesn't play baseball. Also, Magic stepped up 5 times in the finals.

Also, Magic 55% > Lebron's current 33%.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Aah, the old "Robert Horry is better" desperation argument. Get back to me when Robert Horry becomes known as an all-time great.

Bottom line, winning in Cleveland elevates Lebron over exactly no one. Lebron would be 3-4 in the finals = not good enough.

like i said- you are certainly welcome to your opinion.

I believe when you are judging INDIVIDUAL greatness- things like Finals MVP's, MVP's are by far the most important. Apparently you do not. Thats fine. In MY opinion, 4 League MVP's- which is RIDICULOUS, 3 Finals MVP's, 6 STRAIGHT Finals appearances and 7 overall AT THE AGE OF 31 (which is really the most amazing part) WOULD (obviously a YUUUUGE would) puts him above all but His Airness.

Plus- breaking The Drought and erasing the Fumble, The Shot, the Decision, The Drive etc. etc. etc. just adds to the mystique surrounding his undeniable legacy.

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

In MY opinion, 4 League MVP's- which is RIDICULOUS, 3 Finals MVP's, 6 STRAIGHT Finals appearances and 7 overall puts AT THE AGE OF 31 (which is really the most amazing part) puts him above all but His Airness.

Lebron doesn't even have that yet.

Magic had 3 MVPs, 3 Finals MVPS, 5 Championships, 9 Finals Appearances, and an NCAA title as well by age 31.

 

[trojanfan12]

And I've also taken you're position, but as Trojan pointed out awhile back, that years from now, nobody will remember opponent or circumstance.

And that's the whole point, it's about history/legacies. Kobe fell out of the GOAT discussion as soon as the Lakers lost in the finals for the first time with him on the team. Magic and Larry get discounted in that conversation because they lost in the finals. Kobe, Magic and Larry all have winning records in the finals. Lebron would be sub .500.

Would Lebron get an initial bump to his legacy if he won a championship in "The Land?" Absolutely he would. But, within a few years, people would start looking a little closer and seeing a 3-4 (assuming that's where he finishes) record in the finals and he would start coming up short.

When the Red Sox finally won a World Series after what? 84 years? A couple of their stars from that team were elevated beyond how good they actually were (like Schilling and his bloody sock). Now, they have fallen back to a more realistic level. Still great, but not at the level they were in the immediate aftermath of that win.

 

[trojanfan12]

like i said- you are certainly welcome to your opinion.

I believe when you are judging INDIVIDUAL greatness- things like Finals MVP's, MVP's are by far the most important. Apparently you do not. Thats fine. In MY opinion, 4 League MVP's- which is RIDICULOUS, 3 Finals MVP's, 6 STRAIGHT Finals appearances and 7 overall AT THE AGE OF 31 (which is really the most amazing part) WOULD (obviously a YUUUUGE would) puts him above all but His Airness.

Plus- breaking The Drought and erasing the Fumble, The Shot, the Decision, The Drive etc. etc. etc. just adds to the mystique surrounding his undeniable legacy.

Yeah, individual accolades are always most important in a team sport.

Nice try. Exactly no one is buying your nonsense.

 

[trojanfan12]

Lebron doesn't even have that yet.

Magic had 3 MVPs, 3 Finals MVPS, 5 Championships, 9 Finals Appearances, and an NCAA title as well by age 31.

^^^THIS^^^

/debate

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

not only that pressure- but the pressure to win a title here crushes people with the long drought.

If LeBron could someone win it - i mean- build the statute and have it done by the time next season rolls out. It would elevate him above all but Jordan by the end of his career no doubt in my mind.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Lebron doesn't even have that yet.

Magic had 3 MVPs, 3 Finals MVPS, 5 Championships, 9 Finals Appearances, and an NCAA title as well by age 31.

for sure- you are totally right-- thats why i said IF....

IF by age 31 LeBron has 3 Rings, 3 Finals MVP's, 6 STRAIGHt Finals appearances, 4 MVP's etc. etc.....no doubt he ends up just behind his Airness.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Yeah, individual accolades are always most important in a team sport.

Nice try. Exactly no one is buying your nonsense.

ok...than were back to Horry being better than Barkley....lol...RIIIGHT

 

[Wamu]

Lebron doesn't even have that yet.

Magic had 3 MVPs, 3 Finals MVPS, 5 Championships, 9 Finals Appearances, and an NCAA title as well by age 31.

By age 31 Bill Russell had 9 rings (8 in a row), 10 Finals trips, 5 MVP awards, an Olympic gold medal, back-to-back Natty's & was Tourney MOP.

 

[gordontrue]

Hakeem would have zero titles if MJ doesn't play baseball. Also, Magic stepped up 5 times in the finals..

Exactly! So you see my point.

 

[gordontrue]

If you think the accomplishment of bringing a title Cleveland - particularly in this season - is only going to be remarkable or meaningful or impactful to the people of Ohio... I think you're being blinded by the dynamics of this forum.