2014 Offseason Plans Thread

[Justinkm83]

How do you not? Choo is going to get on base a hell of a lot more= more chances to score. Look go many rbis Phillips got with choo hitting in front of him

Go back and read my comments. I didn't say Nelly is more valuable to the line-up than Choo would be.
Yes, Choo will get on base a lot and if 3&4 don't knock them in they will get stranded a lot. If a base is open Beltre will be walked. His RBI's were down last year because AJ was behind him
The whole thing started when someone said protection is a myth.

 

[Hambombs]

Go back and read my comments. I didn't say Nelly is more valuable to the line-up than Choo would be.
Yes, Choo will get on base a lot and if 3&4 don't knock them in they will get stranded a lot. If a base is open Beltre will be walked. His RBI's were down last year because AJ was behind him
The whole thing started when someone said protection is a myth.

Rios is a better hitter than AJ

 

[jta4437]

I keep reading that signing Cruz leaves us without a leadoff hitter (which is true), but signing Choo leaves us without anyone protecting Beltre. Don't give me Rios because that doesn't hold water. We are 2 bats away from a good line-up. The problem is JD sounds content.

My partaking in this conversation started with this comment and its implication that Rios in the 5 hole is a bigger problem than Martin leading off

 

[Justinkm83]

Rios is a better hitter than AJ

Neither will keep a pitcher from pitching around Beltre.
Let me make myself clear, I want Choo, but I also don't like 5-9 if we only add Choo. It looks a lot like last years unproductive bottom of the order.

 

[Justinkm83]

My partaking in this conversation started with this comment and its implication that Rios in the 5 hole is a bigger problem than Martin leading off

Like I said after..... My comment was mis-construed, and still is. where in that comment did I say that the 5 hole was a bigger problem?

 

[jta4437]

Neither will keep a pitcher from pitching around Beltre.
Let me make myself clear, I want Choo, but I also don't like 5-9 if we only add Choo. It looks a lot like last years unproductive bottom of the order.

Thats a given

If you only add one, then Choo is the guy you add though, I don't see how this is even a debate

 

[jta4437]

Like I said after..... My comment was mis-construed, and still is.

Perhaps be a little more clear in your point then, b/c I wasn't the only one that got this impression

 

[Hambombs]

I mean if you're replacing pierzynski with rios at the 5 hole it's a upgrade. Pierzynski had a 90 WRC and rios had a 103 WRC.

 

[Hambombs]

Neither will keep a pitcher from pitching around Beltre.
Let me make myself clear, I want Choo, but I also don't like 5-9 if we only add Choo. It looks a lot like last years unproductive bottom of the order.

Rios has been a above average before. He can actually be a very good 5 hole hitter if he puts up 2012 numbers

 

[jta4437]

My preference is still Choo & Morales, draft pick be damned for once, we end up being minus one draft pick wise, I'm ok with that based on the boost it gives the lineup

Most of the key pieces to the lineup are under team control for several years if you do this (exception is Rios and I'd be willing to bet they replace him with Choice when the time comes) and catcher with Alfaro creeping up slowly so a long term commitment at catcher is foolish anyway

 

[Hambombs]

My preference is still Choo & Morales, draft pick be damned for once, we end up being minus one draft pick wise, I'm ok with that based on the boost it gives the lineup

Most of the key pieces to the lineup are under team control for several years if you do this (exception is Rios and I'd be willing to bet they replace him with Choice when the time comes) and catcher with Alfaro creeping up slowly so a long term commitment at catcher is foolish anyway

Terps did say the plan was to get choo and Cruz if possible

 

[jta4437]

Rios has been a above average before. He can actually be a very good 5 hole hitter if he puts up 2012 numbers

His 2013 numbers after a slow start weren't bad either

 

[Justinkm83]

Perhaps be a little more clear in your point then, b/c I wasn't the only one that got this impression

I said it over and over that I want Choo. My argument was that the difference between a lead off hitter and a 5 hole hitter isn't "far more" important in every case. It depends on the hitters in each hole. I said early on that Choo is the type of lead-off hitter that's a big difference maker.

 

[jta4437]

Terps did say the plan was to get choo and Cruz if possible

Cruz just doesn't do it for me, he's showing obvious signs of decline in his game and wants to be paid like a solid defender

And Terps info doesn't do much for me either, he says a whole lot without saying much at all

 

[jta4437]

I said it over and over that I want Choo. My argument was that the difference between a lead off hitter and a 5 hole hitter isn't "far more" important in every case. It depends on the hitters in each hole. I said early on that Choo is the type of lead-off hitter that's a big difference maker.

I could care less about "other" situations, I'm talking about the Rangers only, why are you bringing up other teams, its irrelevant to the debate of Choo vs Cruz

 

[Hambombs]

Cruz just doesn't do it for me, he's showing obvious signs of decline in his game and wants to be paid like a solid defender

And Terps info doesn't do much for me either, he says a whole lot without saying much at all

I do agree on age being a factor. How much is morales asking for?

 

[Justinkm83]

My preference is still Choo & Morales, draft pick be damned for once, we end up being minus one draft pick wise, I'm ok with that based on the boost it gives the lineup

Most of the key pieces to the lineup are under team control for several years if you do this (exception is Rios and I'd be willing to bet they replace him with Choice when the time comes) and catcher with Alfaro creeping up slowly so a long term commitment at catcher is foolish anyway

That's one thing we've always agreed on. Morales. I just don't know how much cheaper he would be than Cruz.

 

[WilltheThrill]

The lead off hitter drives the offense. Period. When Kinsler had good games at the plate, more often than not the Rangers won. When he struggled, so did the team. Starting off many more games with Choo on base than with Martin getting out makes all the difference in the world. Fielder and Beltre will be hitting a lot of solo HR's and meaningless doubles with nobody on base in front of them.

Also, it is ridiculous to suggest Beltre had any kind of protection last season at all. You honestly think pitchers were afraid of Cruz and his low average or AJ Pierzynski? Rios is a better hitter than either one of those guys.

The bottom line is that the Rangers struggled to put up a lot of runs last year because they didn't have enough guys who could draw walks or string together hits. Beltre had no one to drive in and toward the end of the season started pressing in an attempt to do it all himself. A 3-4-5 combo of Fielder-Beltre-Rios is as legit as it gets. Worrying about what possible effects might occur on the bottom 3rd of the lineup is silly. You want guys who can get on base hitting in front of your best power hitters. Choo gets on base a hell of a lot better than Martin. Choo in front of Fielder, Beltre, Rios= run production. Martin in front of them= not so much.

Oh, and Miguel Cabrera was a monster hitter long before Prince Fielder came along. Great hitters don't need protection, they provide it for others. Beltre would hit .290 with 30 HR with Ron Washington hitting behind him.

 

[Justinkm83]

I could care less about "other" situations, I'm talking about the Rangers only, why are you bringing up other teams, its irrelevant to the debate of Choo vs Cruz

Because that was the argument. Leadoff hitters being more important than 5 hole hitters. Romeo implied always.

 

[jta4437]

That's one thing we've always agreed on. Morales. I just don't know how much cheaper he would be than Cruz.

I've seen reports of 3/39 to 3/45