2014 Offseason Plans Thread Pt2

[DT LUNA]

Most of us wanted Garza and I do not blame JD one bit for trying to take the Rangers to the next level. So you were right there with the majority. Hindsight is 20/20.

I think so too.

 

[Windingmywatch]

Garza was the best SP made available at the deadline and CHC forced TEX to pay over market value for him. That is validated by his 50/4 he signed with MIL.

CJ Edwards, Ramirez, Grimm and Olt for a 2 month rental was nuts ... for a guy who a second tier NL team will pay $12.5/year six months later.

 

[RevSader]

Daniel Bard is recovering from Thoracic Outlet Syndrome.

That's Ranger material

lol If you needed a rib removed you probably belong in Texas.

 

[RevSader]

Really do hope Bard can come back and produce. JD has a nack for these reclamation BP products. Dude had some sick velo and movement. Even if he as able to hit mid 90s it would incredible.

 

[Bmurph]

Really do hope Bard can come back and produce. JD has a nack for these reclamation BP products. Dude had some sick velo and movement. Even if he as able to hit mid 90s it would incredible.

guy did throw hard but had TOS this month, not sure when he'd be back and be able to contribute

 

[Bmurph]

Garza was the best SP made available at the deadline and CHC forced TEX to pay over market value for him. That is validated by his 50/4 he signed with MIL.

CJ Edwards, Ramirez, Grimm and Olt for a 2 month rental was nuts ... for a guy who a second tier NL team will pay $12.5/year six months later.

JD basically did what he had to do at the deadline to try and push the team over the top to go into the playoffs and contend (which was what most here were asking for). The offense didn't help him out. That said, if you value a guy enough to give up what Texas did to get Garza, it seems they would have tried to secure him for more years vs. just let him go elsewhere for what he signed for

 

[jta4437]

Garza was the best SP made available at the deadline and CHC forced TEX to pay over market value for him. That is validated by his 50/4 he signed with MIL.

CJ Edwards, Ramirez, Grimm and Olt for a 2 month rental was nuts ... for a guy who a second tier NL team will pay $12.5/year six months later.

Neil Ramirez had one good season at AAA and the next year was at AA and hasn't done anything since, Olt can't see shit and is way too old to even be a prospect at this point, Grimm isn't a ML starting pitcher, an then CJ Edwards who has BP arm written all over him b/c of his frame

Still do that trade

 

[WastinSomeTime]

Neil Ramirez had one good season at AAA and the next year was at AA and hasn't done anything since, Olt can't see shit and is way too old to even be a prospect at this point, Grimm isn't a ML starting pitcher, an then CJ Edwards who has BP arm written all over him b/c of his frame

Still do that trade

With you all the way on that one. And if Garza does his job I am convinced he is not a 2 month rental but is resigned by the Rangers. He lowered his value with that 2 month stint. Where are all the people who griped about the 2 month rental for Cliff Lee and losing Smoak and Beavan. I would do that all over again as well. JD did what he felt he needed to do and if someone like Garza can't handle it then there is not much that can be said. Our pitching was hit hard last year and JD was trying to strengthen that area for a playoff run and it needed it at the time.

 

[donaldson79]

Wonder if we'll see him back this year. He hasn't let himself slip bad enough to get banned, but he will sooner or later.

Hate to sound like such a rookie, but you/us can actually band a guy from posting here? Do you have to have some kind of quorum or such?

 

[romeo212000]

Hate to sound like such a rookie, but you/us can actually band a guy from posting here? Do you have to have some kind of quorum or such?

Yes, that's one of the nice things about this forum. We don't have to put up with trolling bull shit.

 

[Windingmywatch]

Neil Ramirez had one good season at AAA and the next year was at AA and hasn't done anything since, Olt can't see shit and is way too old to even be a prospect at this point, Grimm isn't a ML starting pitcher, an then CJ Edwards who has BP arm written all over him b/c of his frame

Still do that trade

We'll see.

 

[Hambombs]

Just saw the Daniel bard move. Really high reward move if he's healthy! Controlled through 2016

 

[DT LUNA]

With you all the way on that one. And if Garza does his job I am convinced he is not a 2 month rental but is resigned by the Rangers. He lowered his value with that 2 month stint. Where are all the people who griped about the 2 month rental for Cliff Lee and losing Smoak and Beavan. I would do that all over again as well. JD did what he felt he needed to do and if someone like Garza can't handle it then there is not much that can be said. Our pitching was hit hard last year and JD was trying to strengthen that area for a playoff run and it needed it at the time.

Not much else to say. You and JTA summed it up nicely.

 

[lainey12]

Just read the article(s) about JD and MY. I kept saying I think he'd be a great coach. Apparently JD was somewhat emotional about talking about MY, and "wish he'd handled things differently"and that he's learned some things (something to that effect)...they had a good relationship before 2011.

I like hearing about that side of JD. (you live, you grow, ideally....he's no different than anyone else in that regard) And the way the two are talking, MY will be back with the Rangers in some capacity
Fantastic I say, and good for both of them to patch things up and move on.
I was smiling after I read about the comments they both made.

 

[TheRangerDude]

Neil Ramirez had one good season at AAA and the next year was at AA and hasn't done anything since, Olt can't see shit and is way too old to even be a prospect at this point, Grimm isn't a ML starting pitcher, an then CJ Edwards who has BP arm written all over him b/c of his frame

Still do that trade

Doing that trade in hindsight knowing what we know now would be a stubborn mistake. I think even if you ask JD, if in hindsight would he do the same thing he would say no… after all, he didn't even attempt to resign Garza and I don't blame him.

The thing is, the jury is still out on all of these players but we already know what we got from Garza and it wasn't enough… it surely wasn't what we traded for. I am sure we can all agree we didn't get the value we were hoping for. I for one was for trading for Garza but I felt like we gave up way too much to get him, I mean think about what we gave up for Dempster and he was having a very similar season.

Whether or not any of these players make any sort of success of themselves in the MLB is a still irrelevant at this point because they still have value on the trade market because of their potential as prospects. You may not believe that they will have any success in the MLB but there are plenty of scouts and GMs out there that might disagree and want to take risk on them. I mean CJ is a top 100 prospect according to Keith Law and both Olt and Ramirez have to be considered at least top 15, maybe even top 10 prospects for the Cubs. The Cubs still could turn around and trade them for other players. We, on the other hand we have already parted with our part of the trade.

 

[jta4437]

Doing that trade in hindsight knowing what we know now would be a stubborn mistake. I think even if you ask JD, if in hindsight would he do the same thing he would say no… after all, he didn't even attempt to resign Garza and I don't blame him.

The thing is, the jury is still out on all of these players but we already know what we got from Garza and it wasn't enough… it surely wasn't what we traded for. I am sure we can all agree we didn't get the value we were hoping for. I for one was for trading for Garza but I felt like we gave up way too much to get him, I mean think about what we gave up for Dempster and he was having a very similar season.

Whether or not any of these players make any sort of success of themselves in the MLB is a still irrelevant at this point because they still have value on the trade market because of their potential as prospects. You may not believe that they will have any success in the MLB but there are plenty of scouts and GMs out there that might disagree and want to take risk on them. I mean CJ is a top 100 prospect according to Keith Law and both Olt and Ramirez have to be considered at least top 15, maybe even top 10 prospects for the Cubs. The Cubs still could turn around and trade them for other players. We, on the other hand we have already parted with our part of the trade.

Its not hindsight, I'm just saying I would still do that trade based on how well I know Garza can pitch

Dempster was older than Garza and most people knew his good season was a lot of smoke and mirrors

We got something of value for Olt and we should be happy, in hindsight I wouldn't have included Edwards, but thats about it

 

[TheRangerDude]

With you all the way on that one. And if Garza does his job I am convinced he is not a 2 month rental but is resigned by the Rangers. He lowered his value with that 2 month stint. Where are all the people who griped about the 2 month rental for Cliff Lee and losing Smoak and Beavan. I would do that all over again as well. JD did what he felt he needed to do and if someone like Garza can't handle it then there is not much that can be said. Our pitching was hit hard last year and JD was trying to strengthen that area for a playoff run and it needed it at the time.

I think the Lee trade isn't really comparable to the Garza trade. Lee is a much better pitcher than Garza and we did get value out of him. He did struggle some in the regular season but ultimately his performance in the post season helped us reach the first WS in franchise history. Also, we got Lowe in that trade as well and he gave us a few seasons of decent relief.

Basically for Lee and Lowe we gave up our #2 (Smoak, #1 I suppose you could say since Feliz was our everyday closer), #16 (Beavan) prospects, and Josh Lueke and Matt Lawson (outside of top 20 2010 prospects). For Garza we gave up #2 (Olt), #5 (Grimm), #17 (CJ Edwards), and #18 (Neil Ramirez). Note that I used preseason prospect rankings for both, Olt had lost some value by the time of the trade. Either way though, that sure makes it look like we got a better deal on Lee than Garza.

 

[TheRangerDude]

Its not hindsight, I'm just saying I would still do that trade based on how well I know Garza can pitch

Dempster was older than Garza and most people knew his good season was a lot of smoke and mirrors

We got something of value for Olt and we should be happy, in hindsight I wouldn't have included Edwards, but thats about it

Oh, i see. It seemed like you were saying it in hindsight because you said negative things about all the players involved and then said you would still do the trade. I took that as you would still do the trade knowing what we know now.

I agree, I think Edwards might be what took it over the top for me. I'm not too sure about Olt but I actuality think Grimm will have some success in the big leagues. It may only be as a 4-5 guy but I can defiantly see him having even more success in the NL. I think has pretty decent stuff but has the same sort of problem that Holland had starting of… he has to learn how to stop the bleeding in a bad inning. Honestly, I think Grimm pitched better than Tepesch last season but he would just get in some innings and let the game get away from him.

To me it would have been nice to have all these guys this offseason though and make a run at Price. Either way, like they say hindsight is 20/20.

 

[jta4437]

Oh, i see. It seemed like you were saying it in hindsight because you said negative things about all the players involved and then said you would still do the trade. I took that as you would still do the trade knowing what we know now.

I agree, I think Edwards might be what took it over the top for me. I'm not too sure about Olt but I actuality think Grimm will have some success in the big leagues. It may only be as a 4-5 guy but I can defiantly see him having even more success in the NL. I think has pretty decent stuff but has the same sort of problem that Holland had starting of… he has to learn how to stop the bleeding in a bad inning. Honestly, I think Grimm pitched better than Tepesch last season but he would just get in some innings and let the game get away from him.

To me it would have been nice to have all these guys this offseason though and make a run at Price. Either way, like they say hindsight is 20/20.

If you think Grimm pitched better than Tepesch then you need to get your eyes checked

Grimm's fastball is just way too straight and he doesn't have the secondary offerings consistently enough to keep people off the fastball

If he refines that curveball and can throw it more consistently then he has a chance, that along with a solid changeup would make him a solid #4

 

[WastinSomeTime]

I think the Lee trade isn't really comparable to the Garza trade. Lee is a much better pitcher than Garza and we did get value out of him. He did struggle some in the regular season but ultimately his performance in the post season helped us reach the first WS in franchise history. Also, we got Lowe in that trade as well and he gave us a few seasons of decent relief.

Basically for Lee and Lowe we gave up our #2 (Smoak, #1 I suppose you could say since Feliz was our everyday closer), #16 (Beavan) prospects, and Josh Lueke and Matt Lawson (outside of top 20 2010 prospects). For Garza we gave up #2 (Olt), #5 (Grimm), #17 (CJ Edwards), and #18 (Neil Ramirez). Note that I used preseason prospect rankings for both, Olt had lost some value by the time of the trade. Either way though, that sure makes it look like we got a better deal on Lee than Garza.

It's comparable that people thought we gave up the farm for him. We didn't in either case. I am not for gutting the minors but I am for playing for today. The Rangers of the past were always playing for next year and just wait until our prospects make it to the majors. I say play for today and keep stocking the minors and we are doing that. And part of the reason you stock your minors is so you can make trades like those at the deadline.