2012 season thread

[romeo212000]

Last Year The Arizona Diamondback Won the NL West. But I am Thinking Outside the Box. You get Upton to Texas with a New Atmosphere and a lot of that can change. Lee only has one Win this Year. Matt Harrison has 12. If Holland is healthy He is capable of running off a string of victories. Harrison is one of the best Pitchers in Baseball. Looks like a Ace to me.

Lee also has a 1.16 whip and 106 k's. Both of which best Harrisons numbers. Wins are not an adequate measure of a pitcher. Lee would surely have more wins if he were pitching for texas. Harrison is pitching like a torp right now, but remember that he's a contact pitcher and he could come back to earth very quickly. To me, Harrison's ceiling is a solid #2.

 

[fanman8825]

So you'd give up Olt for a rental ace, but not one you have control of for the next few seasons? Explain that to me.

Sorry for not being more specific. I do not want to give up Olt for a rental period. Would only do it for Hamels if he signed an extension, but from what I am reading Philly may just re-sign him by the 31st.
Cliff Lee is puzzling to me. His last 3 starts have been quality, but his 3 starts proir to that were dissapointing.
The question for me is what else besides Olt would we be giving up for Lee?

 

[AGZBASEBALL]

Lee has had Leads with a Chance to Win a Few Games this Year and He couldn't hold the lead. Come Post Season having Lee can really be a big thing. But even Two Years ago Lee Didn't really do anything. Had a 4-6 Record in his few months with the Rangers. That was Two Years Ago. Rangers got back to the Series Last Year without Lee and were One Strike away twice. If Last Year doesn't mean anything for My or Upton. Then Two Years Ago doesn't Mean anything now for Cliff Lee. Blew a 4-0 Lead to the Cardinals in the Division Series Last Year.

 

[romeo212000]

Sorry for not being more specific. I do not want to give up Olt for a rental period. Would only do it for Hamels if he signed an extension, but from what I am reading Philly may just re-sign him by the 31st.
Cliff Lee is puzzling to me. His last 3 starts have been quality, but his 3 starts proir to that were dissapointing.
The question for me is what else besides Olt would we be giving up for Lee?

My guess is a couple ML ready players (Feliz/Olt) and a couple minor league position players Odor for example, and maybe Buckel or Grimm.

 

[romeo212000]

Lee has had Leads with a Chance to Win a Few Games this Year and He couldn't hold the lead. Come Post Season having Lee can really be a big thing. But even Two Years ago Lee Didn't really do anything. Had a 4-6 Record in his few months with the Rangers. That was Two Years Ago. Rangers got back to the Series Last Year without Lee and were One Strike away twice. If Last Year doesn't mean anything for My or Upton. Then Two Years Ago doesn't Mean anything now for Cliff Lee. Blew a 4-0 Lead to the Cardinals in the Division Series Last Year.

wins and losses don't determine the quality of a pitcher. You have to look at his other numbers. Lee is pitching well this year. Wanna know how I know you really don't know much about baseball? You keep talking about the pitchers' records.

 

[AGZBASEBALL]

When your Pitching and leading 4-0 and the other team comes back and beats you that is a Measure of how good a Pitcher you are. Lee was on the Mound and the Cardinals hit him to win that game. Lee lost leads in a few games this year. Still a Good Pitcher but not sure He is the Ace everybody thinks He is.

 

[romeo212000]

When your Pitching and leading 4-0 and the other team comes back and beats you that is a Measure of how good a Pitcher you are. Lee was on the Mound and the Cardinals hit him to win that game. Lee lost leads in a few games this year. Still a Good Pitcher but not sure He is the Ace everybody thinks He is.

Even aces have bad games. When you point to one single game to describe the quality of a pitcher that tells me exactly how strong your baseball acumen actually is.

 

[AGZBASEBALL]

Not just one game. Also mentioned Lee was Pitching with leads in a few games this year and the other team came back and beat him.

 

[fanman8825]

My guess is a couple ML ready players (Feliz/Olt) and a couple minor league position players.

I would throw in Feliz. Have no faith in him as a starter. Maybe he can set-up for Papelbon.

If Colby is having arm issues then yes I am in for Lee to give up Olt and Feliz. Lee's contract would take him to 37. so yes I am with you on controlling him for 4+ yrs. He probably would be re-invigorated to pitch again for a contender who he is familiar with.

One thing that I really like about Lee is that he pitches well at Yankee stadium against those tough hitting lefties(Cano,Granderson).

 

[romeo212000]

Not just one game. Also mentioned Lee was Pitching with leads in a few games this year and the other team came back and beat him.

Dude... It happens. Look at his numbers.

 

[romeo212000]

I would throw in Feliz. Have no faith in him as a starter. Maybe he can set-up for Papelbon.

If Colby is having arm issues then yes I am in for Lee to give up Olt and Feliz. Lee's contract would take him to 37. so yes I am with you on controlling him for 4+ yrs. He probably would be re-invigorated to pitch again for a contender who he is familiar with.

One thing that I really like about Lee is that he pitches well at Yankee stadium against those tough hitting lefties(Cano,Granderson).

Pretty much my thoughts. I wouldn't say I have no faith in him as a starter, but I'm still very very skeptical of Feliz as a starter. I just don't think he's got the mental toughness to do it.

 

[Hambombs]

wins and losses is the last thing you should be measuring lol.

 

[romeo212000]

wins and losses is the last thing you should be measuring lol.

Exactly.

 

[Hambombs]

Matt harrison has a 2.9 WAR and Cliff lee has a 2.7 WAR ( Wins Above Replacement) So hes been slightly better

 

[Hambombs]

And Somehow cole Hamels has a 2.7 WAR as well

 

[Hambombs]

cliff lee 3.72 ERA FIP 3.04 xFIP = 3.13 due to regress

 

[Xx srs bsns xX]

My guess is a couple ML ready players (Feliz/Olt) and a couple minor league position players Odor for example, and maybe Buckel or Grimm.

All depends.... if the Rangers have to pick up most of the contract..

Someone suggested Olt, Perez, Buckel & Borbon for Lee... and Newberg said its WAY too much. (unless PHI is paying the contract)

 

[Windingmywatch]

When your Pitching and leading 4-0 and the other team comes back and beats you that is a Measure of how good a Pitcher you are. Lee was on the Mound and the Cardinals hit him to win that game. Lee lost leads in a few games this year. Still a Good Pitcher but not sure He is the Ace everybody thinks He is.

Lee has faced STL once in 2012 and PHL won 5-3. Lee left after 7.0 with the game tied 3-3 ... PHL won it in 10.

You mean Cliff Lee don't you? Not Carlos Lee? Robert E. Lee? Pinky Lee?

 

[AGZBASEBALL]

If Lee comes to the Rangers I will Route Hard for Him. Want the Rangers to Win the World Series. But I am just not sold on Lee as a Ace as much as you Guys are. Feel the Rangers have the team to get back to the Series and Win it this Time. Justin Upton is only 24 and a Huge Upside. Just bringing up other avenues the Rangers could go. Will Cliff Lee be available? Have to wait and see. Just because the Rangers had Scouts there doesn't mean the Phillies will Shop Lee.

 

[Hambombs]

If Lee comes to the Rangers I will Route Hard for Him. Want the Rangers to Win the World Series. But I am just not sold on Lee as a Ace as much as you Guys are. Feel the Rangers have the team to get back to the Series and Win it this Time. Justin Upton is only 24 and a Huge Upside. Just bringing up other avenues the Rangers could go. Will Cliff Lee be available? Have to wait and see. Just because the Rangers had Scouts there doesn't mean the Phillies will Shop Lee.

Lee had a 6.7 WAR last year ACE QUALITY. This year hes just been as good as Cole Hamels Both with 2.7 WAR