1996 Bulls and the 2016 GSW

[LAD]

The really hilarious thing about your rebounding rant is that Bogut is actually one of the best rebounders in the NBA. He does not have the raw stats of Draymond because Dray plays a lot more minutes.

Bogut is actually tied for 13th in the NBA in rebounds per 36 minutes with 13.0. Half of the players ranked ahead of him are bench guys like Boban, Thomas Robinson and Javale McGee who get even fewer minutes than Bogut.

For reference, Drummond only averages 3.1 rebounds per 36. Draymond Green is 64th with 10 rebounds per 36. A good number, but not elite.

Just because he's leading in the NBA today doesn't mean he's GREAT. It means that he's better than some of the guys playing NOW (older guys). But, we're talking about a guy being great and if we use history to help us determine greatness (which BTW is a normal practice) he doesn't measure up. Seriously, what great centers are playing in the league today that has more than 2 seasons under his belt?

Oh, and about Dray playing more minutes than Bogut, you're wrong. Per game Bogut is playing 29 where Dray is playing 24.

You're welcome.

 

[LAD]

Well there's your problem if you're comparing him to Shaq...

Ummm because Shaq is considered a great center, yes? And I only looked at the stats that affect defense. If we shouldn't compare him to Shaq (a true center) then who else should we use? LOL

 

[LAD]

@CitySushi
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether or not Bogut has reached "great" status. But I can say I think Bogut does just enough of what the Warriors need him to do-and that helps them win.

 

[wood20ks]

Wake me up when Steph takes 2 years off to play baseball, then comes back and wins 3 more.

Hell wake me up when they win 3 dammit!!


View attachment 84553

So true.....I really think MJ retired cause of gambling, but it doesn't matter anyways, but the fact is, if he dint, it most would have been 8 straight......
And if my memory serves me correctly,I believe Scottie took them the Conference Finals losing to the Knocks.(in 7 maybe?)

 

[tlance]

So true.....I really think MJ retired cause of gambling, but it doesn't matter anyways, but the fact is, if he dint, it most would have been 8 straight......
And if my memory serves me correctly,I believe Scottie took them the Conference Finals losing to the Knocks.(in 7 maybe?)

Conference semis actually, but the Knocks did advance to the NBA Finals.

I was at Kincks Bulls game 7 at the Garden that year. Amazing atmosphere.

 

[tlance]

Watching the Warriors right now. I will say this. In all my years of watching basketball, I have only seen one other team who can turn an opposing fan base against their own squad. That was the Jordan era bulls.

 

[tlance]

Just because he's leading in the NBA today doesn't mean he's GREAT. It means that he's better than some of the guys playing NOW (older guys). But, we're talking about a guy being great and if we use history to help us determine greatness (which BTW is a normal practice) he doesn't measure up. Seriously, what great centers are playing in the league today that has more than 2 seasons under his belt?

Oh, and about Dray playing more minutes than Bogut, you're wrong. Per game Bogut is playing 29 where Dray is playing 24.

You're welcome.

Dude. You are unbelievable. Just admit you are wrong already. Now you are just making shit up.

Bogut averages 20.43 MPG, Green averages 34.12.

What the hell are you looking at?

 

[LAD]

Dude. You are unbelievable. Just admit you are wrong already. Now you are just making shit up.

Bogut averages 20.43 MPG, Green averages 34.12.

What the hell are you looking at?

My mistake, I was looking at minutes played via reg season. I'll give you that.

Also, there's no need for me to make anything up. What support have you provided to back up your claim? Oh that's right, Bogut ranks 13th in the league in rebounds. So now that equals greatness? Just stop it.

 

[tlance]

You said he couldn't rebound. Half of the guys ranked ahead of him play like 10 minutes or less. When you compare him to other starters he is 7th in the league and right there with the best In the game.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

Here is further proof that you can't analyze a player's defensive ability with simple stats.

These are 2 guards from the 2004/2005 season

Player A: 32 MPG 3.5 rebounds, .7 steals, and .5 blocks
Player B: 42.3 MPG, 4 rebounds, 2.4 steals, and .1 blocks

Both were in their primes at this point, which one was better?

Player A was 2 time DPOY runner up Bruce Bowen. Player B was Allen Iverson who was never known as a good defensive player. Blocks and Steals don't tell the story.

So then accolades mean something?

 

[tlance]

But I am done with you, because you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[tlance]

So then accolades mean something?

Wow.

I never said they were meaningless. You have to be a good defender to be in the DPOY conversation. People around here act like they are gospel though.

Draymond will likely win DPOY this year. He is no more or less deserving than he was last year, but the difference is that the Warriors won a title last season and Draybis breaking out on the offensive end. If you don't think that matters, you are kidding yourself.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

Rodman was deserving, but you can't say that Rodman is a better defender because he has more awards. Awards are subjective and Draymond is deserving too. - tlance

You seem to downplay the importance of awards in the above statement.

Also, I did some digging like I said I would. Unfortunately the only advanced metric for both DG and DR is the
D Box +/-. DR was 3.5 (7) DG is 3.7 (4) so far through this season.

 

[gohusk]

I couldn't care less. All I know is that the W's team I watched after the Webber debacle was a dumpster fire until Curry showed up. It was like rooting for a broken down car.

 

[gohusk]

Rodman was deserving, but you can't say that Rodman is a better defender because he has more awards. Awards are subjective and Draymond is deserving too. - tlance

You seem to downplay the importance of awards in the above statement.

Also, I did some digging like I said I would. Unfortunately the only advanced metric for both DG and DR is the
D Box +/-. DR was 3.5 (7) DG is 3.7 (4) so far through this season.

Rodman was sick. You think the W's would even try putting Green on a prime Shaq in the post? The dude was a defensive and rebounding freak and he was strong as a house.

 

[tlance]

Rodman was deserving, but you can't say that Rodman is a better defender because he has more awards. Awards are subjective and Draymond is deserving too. - tlance

You seem to downplay the importance of awards in the above statement.

Also, I did some digging like I said I would. Unfortunately the only advanced metric for both DG and DR is the
D Box +/-. DR was 3.5 (7) DG is 3.7 (4) so far through this season.

And I stand by that comment, although maybe it was misinterpreted.

What I meant was whether 1st or 3rd in DPOY voting, it still more or less means the same. The winner is subjective, if you are in the conversation, you are among the best.

 

[gohusk]

Let's not be silly here. Rodman's thing was defense. They'd put him on Bird, they'd put him on Magic, they'd put him on Drexler, they'd put him on Ewing, they'd put him on Pippen, they'd put him on Jordan, ... sometimes he'd stop them, sometimes he wouldn't. But he was the guy that they'd put on some top 50 player of all time to try to slow him down.

 

[tlance]

Nobody ever said Rodman was not great defensively.

 

[ChrisGar15]

@CitySushi
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether or not Bogut has reached "great" status. But I can say I think Bogut does just enough of what the Warriors need him to do-and that helps them win.

On a related point -- I find it interesting that (according to a player poll) the three dirtiest players in the NBA are from Australia & New Zealand. (Delly, Bogut, Adams) I don't think this shows any insightful trend -- just an interesting fact.

I think the main thing it shows is the definition of a "Dirty Player" today has changed dramatically in 20 years. 20 years ago -- none of these guys would have made the Top 20 Dirtiest in NBA.

Watch stuff like the following for seeing physical basketball.

My son loves watching NBA and got a huge kick out of watch the Lambeer/Chief play where Chief hits Bill with a clear, hard punch -- and they didn't even call a foul on him. (even the announcer said ... "I think the refs thought Lambeer deserved it.")

 

[ChrisGar15]

@CitySushi
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether or not Bogut has reached "great" status. But I can say I think Bogut does just enough of what the Warriors need him to do-and that helps them win.

I still say if Bogut was "great" -- he would have gotten off the bench for a few minutes in the NBA Finals last year in the last 3 games vs. the Cavs. But he didn't.