157.1

[deep9er]

I remember people bashing Smith because he wasn't accurate enough to lead a guy so our WR never had YAC. Last night he was on the money so guys could get YAC, and that means because his guys got YAC that he had "watered" down stats. Smith is not going to be an "elite" passing QB with numbers. But as long as we are chalking up the wins, why hate? Why to take something he did that has never been done before and diminish it?

yep.

one day he will throw for 350 yards, with completions longer than 30 yards, but he'll still be cited for his negative play. negative fans...no make that negative people...will always think of the negatives first.

 

[-AC-]

you're asking....suggesting....he shouldn't be as lauded in the media, thus asking for negatives. cause how else will anyone agree it is overblown without citing negatives?

the media can laud any player for a good game, but 49er fans don't know how to act when its Alex Smith. he didn't turn it over, passed for three TD's, and completed more passes than typical, but unless he adds over 350 yards passing to his stat line........unless he completed passes over 30 yards in the air.........

I don't have my expectations set to high. Nor am I looking for the negatives. What I watched last night was a good game from Alex Smith... No more no less... My beef is with the media over hyping his performance. The majority of his passes were check-downs and passes less than 10 yards minus the YAC. He threw short 'high percentage' passes and his recievers did the rest. If the media needs a story, how about hyping Crabtree who beat up one of the better up and coming CB's in the league? Or how the defense only allowed 7 yards rushing? Smith still looked like he was playing with low confidence and appeared affraid to throw the ball down the field. But he made the best of the situation and got the win (and looked pretty good at times). But does he deserve the high praise he recieved after the game? I don't think so...

 

[NinerSickness]

Here's my take.

1) Alex had a great game.
2) He had a lucky game. There were a BUNCH of missed tackles, and a Cardinals' defender took out another potential tackler on Moss's big gain. His tipped pass landed directly in Walker's hands, and Peterson fell down on one of Crabby's scores.
3) I'm cautiously optimistic Alex's velocity has been effected by his sprained finger the last 2 weeks and it might be getting a little better.
4) I'm interested in how the NIners play against GOOD teams. I don't get too excited about when the Niners beat up on crappy teams like the Cardials:

I for got one. 5) Alex should not have been on the field with a sprained finger the last couple of weeks.

 

[tallglassofwater007]

I wonder why that was? Was it the fact that he was a 4-time SB Champion, 3-time SB MVP, and a 2-time NFL MVP? Naw, that can't be it.

So he never completed a short pass that turned into a long TD before he won a MVP award? I am saying that it is stupid to fault or use against a QB for hitting a receiver who turns a short pass into a long gain. No matter who it is.

 

[deep9er]

I don't have my expectations set to high. Nor am I looking for the negatives. What I watched last night was a good game from Alex Smith... No more no less... My beef is with the media over hyping his performance. The majority of his passes were check-downs and passes less than 10 yards minus the YAC. He threw short 'high percentage' passes and his recievers did the rest. If the media needs a story, how about hyping Crabtree who beat up one of the better up and coming CB's in the league? Or how the defense only allowed 7 yards rushing? Smith still looked like he was playing with low confidence and appeared affraid to throw the ball down the field. But he made the best of the situation and got the win (and looked pretty good at times). But does he deserve the high praise he recieved after the game? I don't think so...

ok, your problem is with the media, or so you say.

you agree Alex Smith did good, but you're objecting to just how good its being portrayed. how did you conclude the media is overblowing it? what made you stop and think...hmm...the media is over doing it?

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

What I watched last night was a good game from Alex Smith... No more no less... My beef is with the media over hyping his performance.

I think this is a really interesting point that is a big part of the Alex Smith Problem. We all see his performances first hand, and we scrutinize Niners' play way, way more than players on other teams. We all saw him have a very good game last night, but not quite the amazing near-perfection its being treated as.

But then when it comes to other teams and QBs we don't watch as much or as closely, our main exposure is *primarily* this media gushing over them after good games, "Tom Brady/Rodgers/etc. are such amazing flawless players!". So we have a QB we know has these strengths and weaknesses, but our perception of the other guys is defined so much more by media hype and highlights showing them throwing TDs......but they don't show the other 90% of the time when these guys might occasionally get sacked, throw balls away, make bad decisions.

So when the stats and efficiency ratings show Smith up there with the rest of them, we can rationalize that and assert he's a product of his teammates, while assuming all the rest of them "deserve" to be there because our main perception is them throwing great passes on NFL Countdown. We know when Smith picks on a bad defense and "pads" his stats, but fail to acknowledge that every QBs stats include these games against bad Ds. Creates a grass is always greener problem.

Way too long.

 

[deep9er]

I think this is a really interesting point that is a big part of the Alex Smith Problem. We all see his performances first hand, and we scrutinize Niners' play way, way more than players on other teams. We all saw him have a very good game last night, but not quite the amazing near-perfection its being treated as.

But then when it comes to other teams and QBs we don't watch as much or as closely, our main exposure is *primarily* this media gushing over them after good games, "Tom Brady/Rodgers/etc. are such amazing flawless players!". So we have a QB we know has these strengths and weaknesses, but our perception of the other guys is defined so much more by media hype and highlights showing them throwing TDs......but they don't show the other 90% of the time when these guys might occasionally get sacked, throw balls away, make bad decisions.

So when the stats and efficiency ratings show Smith up there with the rest of them, we can rationalize that and assert he's a product of his teammates, while assuming all the rest of them "deserve" to be there because our main perception is them throwing great passes on NFL Countdown. We know when Smith picks on a bad defense and "pads" his stats, but fail to acknowledge that every QBs stats include these games against bad Ds. Creates a grass is always greener problem.

Way too long.

don't disagree with this at all, we scrutinize Alex Smith to the bone. if Aaron Rodgers had the same stats we'd be wishing he was our QB. the first thing to our minds wouldn't be....but some of those completions lucky? but some of those completions due to the WR? but half of those were checkdowns?


if there is ONE thing that would change the perception most, is to complete a few more long passes each game. he might go 10 out of 20, but if four of those completions were over 20 yards in the air............

he might have only 150 yards and 0 TD's, but if he had four completions of 25 yards in the air...........

 

[-AC-]

ok, your problem is with the media, or so you say.

you agree Alex Smith did good, but you're objecting to just how good its being portrayed. how did you conclude the media is overblowing it? what made you stop and think...hmm...the media is over doing it?

This was post #5 of this thread- ESPN's headline was "Smith shines as Niners crush Cards", the headline should've been "Crabtree abuses Peterson in a Niner rout"...

This was the sort of headline that was at most sites late last night and early this morning. Of course I am basing my opinion on how Smith looked last night, and not looking at his stat total. He looked like his normal usual self. I've seen him play better than he did last night, and of course I've seen him play worse than last night. I'm not really sure why you are questioning my motive in this conversation, tbh. I don't think you can find to many of my post's bashing Smith. As a matter of fact on the old espn board I took a lot heat for sticking up for Smith. In paticular I had a huge argument with Drekeeper back then about keeping Smith over an aging Donovan McNabb...

I just didn't see anything different from Smith than we normally do. The big difference was the recievers stepped up and the Cards couldn't cope with that. And the recievers should have had the headlines...

 

[deep9er]

This was post #5 of this thread- ESPN's headline was "Smith shines as Niners crush Cards", the headline should've been "Crabtree abuses Peterson in a Niner rout"...

This was the sort of headline that was at most sites late last night and early this morning. Of course I am basing my opinion on how Smith looked last night, and not looking at his stat total. He looked like his normal usual self. I've seen him play better than he did last night, and of course I've seen him play worse than last night. I'm not really sure why you are questioning my motive in this conversation, tbh. I don't think you can find to many of my post's bashing Smith. As a matter of fact on the old espn board I took a lot heat for sticking up for Smith. In paticular I had a huge argument with Drekeeper back then about keeping Smith over an aging Donovan McNabb...

I just didn't see anything different from Smith than we normally do. The big difference was the recievers stepped up and the Cards couldn't cope with that. And the recievers should have had the headlines...

yeah ok, i'm dropping it now. the point i was attempting to make isn't a big deal.

 

[abaskin18]

This thread is bordering on Mothership territory, imo. Flame on.

 

[MHSL82]

yes i know. but if you keep expecting wine out of an apple............

we should all know he is "max'ed out" and what he did last night was back to his best play. but since we can't get an elite QB right now, i'll take his best play and the win. if you continue to have high expectations, you'll continue to be VERY frustrated.

the previous games prove he can be a lot worse, so take his good play and be happy we won. agree it wasn't an All Pro performance and that play won't allow him to carry the team. that said, how much more downfield passes do you expect?

Not really in the mood for an extended argument, just noting my disagreement with the "consensus" that he's maxed out.

Obviously on a one game basis, rating wise and completion percentage you can't get much better. Rating wise, over the season, he's not going to get much better than a 102. Completion percentage, he leads the league, so he's not going to get better at that. (Accuracy is different than completion percentage.) There are certainly things where we cannot expect him to get better at. He's not going to be a gunslinger, not even a based-on-the-circumstances gunslinger.

But yards wise, contribution wise, consistency wise, etc., he can, without an unrealistic expectation of improvement. I don't care much for ESPN's rating, but as one metric, he's more consistent, as even his worst game (24.8 against the Giants, on a scale of 100 being the max) was much better than a few last year (a 7.7 against the Cardinals, a 10.6 against the Lions, and 13.5 against the Ravens). I think he's played better teams than he did last year, but we did catch them at good times. Throwing away the rating stats as some hate those, I think he can get more consistent than he's been, though there's a limitation there.

We've improved to 20th in Third Down Conversions (37.8) from 31st last year (20 something). We are 8th in Red Zone, from 30th last year. We could get there more often. Doing these things more consistently and making a better effort at getting to Moss, he could improve. He's not going to be 300 yarder, but that's not the only way to improve. He will never not miss opportunities, but as bad as he's been, I think he can get better.

Some may say this is an improvement just by his surroundings, but although I don't think he'll change his colors, I think he can get better, independently of others, too.

 

[MHSL82]

Apparently 2 of the plays from last night are under review. The 49ers are hoping the league will change the ruling on a 4th quarter run by Crabtree into a 4th quarter pass. They are also questioning the Pass Interference call on the Manningham catch in the 1st quarter. The 49ers I guess are saying they did not accept the penalty since the ball was caught, but it went into the books that they did accept it. If the league does alter the books on either play then Alex would have 20 attempts and the record for Completion percentage. It would also bump him up to a perfect QB Rating I believe.

I'll cite QB rating from time to time because as flawed as it is, it's the most known and longest known single number besides wins that QBs are based on. There's third down conversion and red zone efficiency that is more accurate, but as a note, I'll mention rating more because of it's familiarity and comparison-ability.

However, QB rating is whack. Here's an example:

Desputed plays:

2/2 15 yards, 0 TDs, 0 INTs = 97.9 rating

Stats for Last Night's Game as it Currently Stands:

18/19, 232 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs = 157.1 rating

Add those two together:

20/21, 247 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs = 155.3 rating.

Two completions makes his rating go DOWN (because of YPA)

Current stats: 145/209, 1659 yards, 12 TDs, 5 INTs = 102.1 rating

Add the 2/2, 15 yards, 97.9 rating and... his rating goes UP! (102.3 rating)

How do you add a LESSER rating (97.9) to a Higher Rating and get a HIGHER RATING? (The answer is completion percentage, because while 15 yards on 2 attempts is worse than his 7.94 YPA, percentage is more important than YPA in the rating formula.)

 

[deep9er]

Not really in the mood for an extended argument, just noting my disagreement with the "consensus" that he's maxed out.

Obviously on a one game basis, rating wise and completion percentage you can't get much better. Rating wise, over the season, he's not going to get much better than a 102. Completion percentage, he leads the league, so he's not going to get better at that. (Accuracy is different than completion percentage.) There are certainly things where we cannot expect him to get better at. He's not going to be a gunslinger, not even a based-on-the-circumstances gunslinger.

But yards wise, contribution wise, consistency wise, etc., he can, without an unrealistic expectation of improvement. I don't care much for ESPN's rating, but as one metric, he's more consistent, as even his worst game (24.8 against the Giants, on a scale of 100 being the max) was much better than a few last year (a 7.7 against the Cardinals, a 10.6 against the Lions, and 13.5 against the Ravens). I think he's played better teams than he did last year, but we did catch them at good times. Throwing away the rating stats as some hate those, I think he can get more consistent than he's been, though there's a limitation there.

We've improved to 20th in Third Down Conversions (37.8) from 31st last year (20 something). We are 8th in Red Zone, from 30th last year. We could get there more often. Doing these things more consistently and making a better effort at getting to Moss, he could improve. He's not going to be 300 yarder, but that's not the only way to improve. He will never not miss opportunities, but as bad as he's been, I think he can get better.

Some may say this is an improvement just by his surroundings, but although I don't think he'll change his colors, I think he can get better, independently of others, too.

yeah ok, not about to argue why i think he's maxed out. God knows we've had tons of threads even during the good part circa late 2010 to now. plus, admittedly this is a general statement whereas there many moving parts.

anyways, i'm glad he is back to last nights performance, whatever description you want. i'll be very happy if he doesn't fall too far back ala that Giants game.

i'm no longer hoping for elite passing performances, just hoping for HIS consistant best when we enter the play-offs.

 

[MHSL82]

yeah ok, not about to argue why i think he's maxed out. God knows we've had tons of threads even during the good part circa late 2010 to now. plus, admittedly this is a general statement whereas there many moving parts.

anyways, i'm glad he is back to last nights performance, whatever description you want. i'll be very happy if he doesn't fall too far back ala that Giants game.

i'm no longer hoping for elite passing performances, just hoping for HIS consistant best when we enter the play-offs.

I can roll with this. Agreeing to disagree has been a safer method of maintaining the board's sanity to some extent. If not for that, this board would be going crazy.

 

[MHSL82]

I have to admit, I roam other boards and this board (of course) so my comments are in general. It seems like people while he played well, shut up while they waited. He had a bad game, people still held back until a few came out and called him out, then it was like a coming out party. I think they gathered enough troops that they can withstand this near perfect rating almost record setting game, when they couldn't have done so if the Giants game was after the bye. People would have jumped on Alex's bandwagon further so it would have been harder to rock it.



This is in jest, as people have and have the right to criticize him for anything they want at any time. He certainly hasn't proven beyond refute. I don't really think it's a conspiracy theory or anything. I do think people got louder with their true beliefs after his Giant slipup (pun intended). I don't think people actually changed their mind based upon that game, nor did Alex change who he was, just that critics felt free to open up and be more demonstrative with their previous and current concerns, as is their right. (Doing it earlier would be resisted more annoyingly.)

 

[deep9er]

I can roll with this. Agreeing to disagree has been a safer method of maintaining the board's sanity to some extent. If not for that, this board would be going crazy.

yep, differing opinions by itself is ok, it is what makes the board work.

 

[Geraint]

Nah, that post is too laughable to even bother with. A while back he couldn't play in the league, now we're complaining about "an underwhelming 157"

One of the biggest draft busts in history, even Ryan Leaf didnt suck for seven seasons

 

[Flyingiguana]

Aside from taking a couple sacks he could have avoided by getting rid of the ball I thought he had a great game. It seems a little nitpicky to fault him on passes of 10 yards or less, when guys are turning those into big gains. And the tipped pass was from a pretty good play by the LB ( I believe) that also turned into a completion.

Just out of curiosity, if that was a game by Eli Manning or Drew Brees... would you agree with the credit the media was giving them?

in the past some of those short passes were off the mark, but smith was putting the ball in a spot where the wr could get yac. good protection>good route>good pass>cards secondary sucking>big gain

 

[-AC-]

Alex Smith- Is such a February Christmas tree and a lit match topic. It doesn't take much for things to go up in flames in a split second...

My intention was not to bash Smith, but to give credit IMHO to those who deserved it most. Gore gashed the Cards front 7 repeatedly, but you didn't hear much about him after the game. The defense played stellar as usual last night, almost pitching a shut-out and tieing the franchise record of allowing only 7 yards rushing, but didn't see them in the headlines. Moss got a little media love for showing a little Monday Night Magic. But the real star last night was Michael Crabtree. The guy that deserved the headline's the most in my mind...

Again, Smith had a very good game. I'm not trying to take away anything from his positive play last night...

 

[deep9er]

Alex Smith- Is such a February Christmas tree and a lit match topic. It doesn't take much for things to go up in flames in a split second...

My intention was not to bash Smith, but to give credit IMHO to those who deserved it most. Gore gashed the Cards front 7 repeatedly, but you didn't hear much about him after the game. The defense played stellar as usual last night, almost pitching a shut-out and tieing the franchise record of allowing only 7 yards rushing, but didn't see them in the headlines. Moss got a little media love for showing a little Monday Night Magic. But the real star last night was Michael Crabtree. The guy that deserved the headline's the most in my mind...

Again, Smith had a very good game. I'm not trying to take away anything from his positive play last night...

but if you take the thread's title and the 1st paragraph of your first post, it is easy to see why you got the reaction you got.

if you intended to credit others, you would've said so directly. but you start off with Smith's rating, and how he wasn't THAT good.