10 Reasons why an Appeal Overturns TB12 Suspension

[ATL96Steeler]

1. What you're saying is, on a technicality, incorrect. Temperature changes the pressure without changing the amount of air inside.

2. The Colts' footballs were also affected. However, they started from a higher pressure, and also they spent much more time warming up before being tested than the Patriots' balls did.

As an example of why the latter matters -- when the balls from both teams were tested after the game, the pressure was ABOVE initial values ("initial" = pregame or halftime-adjusted as the case may be). Clearly, bringing the balls indoors raises the pressure pretty quickly.

Admittedly I don't have much knowledge on the technical side of this...I still believe that PSI was effected by a person more so than weather.

I'll say this to state the obvious...regardless of what happens to Brady...this should not happen in arguably the most powerful sports entity in the world...the NFL needs to establish better control of game footballs. After this...I'm sure they will.

 

[Fencer]

Admittedly I don't have much knowledge on the technical side of this...I still believe that PSI was effected by a person more so than weather.

In saying that you're contradicting established physics.

 

[WizardHawk]

Possibility...possible.

FTR...I really don't "want" Brady to be guilty of this, (i.e. not a TB hater). I'm curious to find the validity of the Wells report...it appears to be merely a fact finding mission that assumes Brady at least knew air was being taken out.

Again...I expect this to be reduced to 2 games.

^^^ This. All of this really.

Wouldn't bother me at all if some unknown evidence came out and totally cleared his name. Would be best for the league as a whole if that happened, but I don't see that either.

NEPF is putting all of his eggs in one basket and basically already claiming victory for what amounts to lawyers doing what they do in making threats. Once Goodell sets the punishment down to a more tolerable level those threats will go away.

He's forgetting the part where Vincent states that Brady's testimony was not plausible AND in direct conflict with known evidence. Brady will have to answer to those as well and those details are likely to emerge in the public as part of this process. Something ultimately neither he, nor the NFLPA likely wants.

In short, it's a bluff to push the hand of the process to get a reduction. Just my opinion.

 

[Fencer]

^^^ This. All of this really.

Wouldn't bother me at all if some unknown evidence came out and totally cleared his name. Would be best for the league as a whole if that happened, but I don't see that either.

NEPF is putting all of his eggs in one basket and basically already claiming victory for what amounts to lawyers doing what they do in making threats. Once Goodell sets the punishment down to a more tolerable level those threats will go away.

He's forgetting the part where Vincent states that Brady's testimony was not plausible AND in direct conflict with known evidence. Brady will have to answer to those as well and those details are likely to emerge in the public as part of this process. Something ultimately neither he, nor the NFLPA likely wants.

In short, it's a bluff to push the hand of the process to get a reduction. Just my opinion.

Not a bluff. It's "Give us a true neutral arbitrator or we'll get the courts to give us one." And by the way, the NFLPA has a great track record in such court cases.

 

[WizardHawk]

Everyone here is entitled to their own opinion. In the end we will see who was right.

Simply asking for something doesn't mean they will get it.

 

[Fencer]

Simply asking for something doesn't mean they will get it.

It's a safer bet than giving Marshawn Lynch a carry on 2nd & goal from the 1.

Brady will get his neutral arbitrator. Maybe he'll have to go to court to get it; maybe Goodell will for once cave early. But either way, he'll get one.

 

[WizardHawk]

Again, it's not going to matter. He was suspended for lying and not cooperating. None of us has the transcripts to know what exactly he lied about and what proof they had that it was a lie. Both sides know all of that, and none of that has been brought up in these formal letters. Didn't see any challenge to the notion that he didn't lie. As long as that lie (or lies) is really there, not much chance it goes to 0 games suspended.

This stopped being about the balls themselves long ago. If he did lie he's going to sit. If he didn't lie, where is the outrage and challenge over that given it is the center of the suspension?

I really don't think Brady or the NFLPA is going to want the details of the lie(s) brought out in public. Just my opinion.

 

[gohusk]

he's lying, everybody knows he's lying. It's just a matter of whether or not he gets away with it. But Kraft is stupid. He had some good points, but his claim that "the Deflator" had something to do with weight loss is just another ridiculous lie that nobody in their right mind would buy Seriously. Dude should have stuck to the valid points he had instead of bringing that crap up. But he, just like all the other high profile owners, is used to bullying the league FO around and keep it on task, which is apparently to bully around the players union and cover up player safety issues for them.

 

[Fencer]

Again, it's not going to matter. He was suspended for lying and not cooperating. None of us has the transcripts to know what exactly he lied about and what proof they had that it was a lie. Both sides know all of that, and none of that has been brought up in these formal letters. Didn't see any challenge to the notion that he didn't lie. As long as that lie (or lies) is really there, not much chance it goes to 0 games suspended.

This stopped being about the balls themselves long ago. If he did lie he's going to sit. If he didn't lie, where is the outrage and challenge over that given it is the center of the suspension?

I really don't think Brady or the NFLPA is going to want the details of the lie(s) brought out in public. Just my opinion.

The report accuses Brady of lying in two ways:

1. La, la, la, we have no evidence but we don't think he was telling the truth.
2. He specifically lied when we asked him what he knew about Jim McNally and he said "not much".

#2 has been addressed on the Pats' rebuttal website. E.g.:

• You know him; you signed autographs for him!
• Uh, do you have any idea how many autographs I sign a year for people I don't know very well?

Or:

• You said you'd never heard of Jim McNally.
• I've never heard that name -- wait, are you asking about Burt?
• Actually, his nickname is Bird.
• Whatever. I don't have a lot of contact with this guy who comes to 10 games a year and hangs out with the officials when he's here.

 

[Fencer]

I really don't think Brady or the NFLPA is going to want the details of the lie(s) brought out in public. Just my opinion.

Well, they've signaled

• The intention of calling Goodell and Vincent as witnesses.
• The intention of going to Federal Court.
• The expectation that Jastremski and McNally will be called to testify (or so I've seen in a post elsewhere -- I'm foggy on the details of that part).

So your hypothesis that this is all a bluff is likely to be tested.

 

[WizardHawk]

I think that was the part they found 'not plausible'. How do you not know the guys that handle the equipment you pay so much minute detail over?

 

[WizardHawk]

Maybe bluff is too strong of a word, but this is normal legal tactics.

Didn't the MLBPA file for appeals on behalf of A-Roid?

This isn't unusual in the sports world in these kinds of cases. And most of them do not get carried out to the threatened levels.

 

[Fencer]

I think that was the part they found 'not plausible'. How do you not know the guys that handle the equipment you pay so much minute detail over?

Not guys -- guy singular. And in McNally's main job, there's no reason for Brady to know him; he's just a delivery boy for the footballs. Your argument only applies to the extent that Jastremski delegated part of his role to McNally (as he evidently did).

 

[Fencer]

Maybe bluff is too strong of a word, but this is normal legal tactics.

Didn't the MLBPA file for appeals on behalf of A-Roid?

This isn't unusual in the sports world in these kinds of cases. And most of them do not get carried out to the threatened levels.

But in the specific matter of NFL players getting neutral arbitrators, the bluff is never just a bluff, and the league always loses.

(I am only referring to the past few years, while Goodell has been commissioner and handing down increasingly erratic discipline.)

 

[ATL96Steeler]

In saying that you're contradicting established physics.

Here's the $64,000 question...who, or now that physics might be in play here, what do you think changed the PSI of the Patriot footballs?

I believe it was the equipment staff under the directive of TB. Did TB know the footballs were under league minimum?...I'm going to say he did not know, he was simply going with what felt most comfortable to him.

Why do I believe this? Earlier this week...local radio sportstalk had a NFL C on air that played for 10 yrs and now works for NFL network...He said on air this week that his personal experience and talking with many other C that played around the time he played...pharaphasing this..."every QB he has every played with wanted the football a certain way", that was a known fact, and he left it at that.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Admittedly I don't have much knowledge on the technical side of this...I still believe that PSI was effected by a person more so than weather.

I'll say this to state the obvious...regardless of what happens to Brady...this should not happen in arguably the most powerful sports entity in the world...the NFL needs to establish better control of game footballs. After this...I'm sure they will.

Amen, it's an embarrasement that is international now.

 

[packerzrule]

10 reasons why I don't give a fuck

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Again, it's not going to matter. He was suspended for lying and not cooperating. None of us has the transcripts to know what exactly he lied about and what proof they had that it was a lie. Both sides know all of that, and none of that has been brought up in these formal letters. Didn't see any challenge to the notion that he didn't lie. As long as that lie (or lies) is really there, not much chance it goes to 0 games suspended.

This stopped being about the balls themselves long ago. If he did lie he's going to sit. If he didn't lie, where is the outrage and challenge over that given it is the center of the suspension?

I really don't think Brady or the NFLPA is going to want the details of the lie(s) brought out in public. Just my opinion.

Ding, ding, ding!!!

All this drilling down into the PSI of the footballs means something I guess to the league to improve their handling of gameday footballs.

To me this is akin to Bill Clinton saying I didn't inhale!

 

[Fencer]

Here's the $64,000 question...who, or now that physics might be in play here, what do you think changed the PSI of the Patriot footballs?

Temperature.

If the balls DIDN'T change in pressure along with the temperature, THAT would be evidence of cheating.