10,000 Posts for a Flyers Cup in 2019

[awaz]

How do you know they did try? Cmon why would we entertain a trade of Voracek for Rust that is just silly we both know that isn't what the Flyers tried and failed to do.

I don't, but I'm not saying they did try. You're saying they haven't tried as if its fact.

And tbh with you, I have no idea what you're willing to trade these guys for. Every day you come on here and say they suck and you want to trade them. You said you'd trade them for 50 pt guys a couple weeks back, Rust is on pace for nearly that this year. So who really knows what you're looking to do. I think you understand they're not going to trade Voracek for a Stamkos, McDavid, Ovechkin type player, but maybe that's what you expect, I don't know.

 

[chy1127]

You never know until there is an attempt to do so. I do know for sure we have trash and if we keep trash we stay the same old trashy team as the last 7 years.

I agree that changes, including trades, need to be made. I also think some of the players that can be moved will have a higher value at the trade deadline, when some teams are desperate and will overpay. Problem is that most teams want to move picks. Here are some trades I found:

To BRUINS: Rick Nash (NYR retains 50 percent)
To RANGERS: Ryan Spooner, Matt Beleskey (BOS retains 50 percent), Ryan Lindgren, 2018 first-round pick, 2019 seventh-round pick.
Other than a 1st, woof.

To SHARKS: Evander Kane
To SABRES: 2019 conditional first-round pick, 2020 conditional fourth-round pick, Daniel O’Regan

To RED WINGS: 2018 1st round pick, 2019 2nd round pick, 2021 3rd round pick
To GOLDEN KNIGHTS: Tomas Tatar

To LIGHTNING: Ryan McDonagh, JT Miller
To RANGERS: Vladimir Namestnikov, Brett Howden, Libor Hajek, 2018 1st round pick, conditional 2nd round pick

Blue Jackets acquire Artemi Panarin, Tyler Motte and a 2017 sixth-round draft pick from the Blackhawks in exchange for Brandon Saad, Anton Forsberg and 2018 fifth-round draft pick.

Not many big time players coming back for a better player. Unfortunately, there does not appear to be a quick fix until free agency next year.

That being said, I still expect Simmonds to go for picks, Raffl for a 4th. I don't think you get equal value for G or Couts, not sure about Jake and who would want JVR?

 

[awaz]

I agree that changes, including trades, need to be made. I also think some of the players that can be moved will have a higher value at the trade deadline, when some teams are desperate and will overpay. Problem is that most teams want to move picks. Here are some trades I found:

To BRUINS: Rick Nash (NYR retains 50 percent)
To RANGERS: Ryan Spooner, Matt Beleskey (BOS retains 50 percent), Ryan Lindgren, 2018 first-round pick, 2019 seventh-round pick.
Other than a 1st, woof.

To SHARKS: Evander Kane
To SABRES: 2019 conditional first-round pick, 2020 conditional fourth-round pick, Daniel O’Regan

To RED WINGS: 2018 1st round pick, 2019 2nd round pick, 2021 3rd round pick
To GOLDEN KNIGHTS: Tomas Tatar

To LIGHTNING: Ryan McDonagh, JT Miller
To RANGERS: Vladimir Namestnikov, Brett Howden, Libor Hajek, 2018 1st round pick, conditional 2nd round pick

Blue Jackets acquire Artemi Panarin, Tyler Motte and a 2017 sixth-round draft pick from the Blackhawks in exchange for Brandon Saad, Anton Forsberg and 2018 fifth-round draft pick.

Not many big time players coming back for a better player. Unfortunately, there does not appear to be a quick fix until free agency next year.

That being said, I still expect Simmonds to go for picks, Raffl for a 4th. I don't think you get equal value for G or Couts, not sure about Jake and who would want JVR?

Exactly the point I've been trying to make.

A change of scenery type trade eliminates most teams as trade partners because the cup contenders like what they have and want to add, and the basement dwellers want to get future parts, not add big contracts. So you're talking about the muddled middle, or the teams that had high expectations and fell on their face (like the Flyers). So you're talking about the Hawks and Blues maybe as your targets? Maybe the Kings? It's hard to make trades when you have the whole NHL to wheel and deal with, when you get down to 4-5 teams that fit your change of scenery criteria, it becomes nearly impossible.

Historically, not saying this is always a fact, but HISTORICALLY, the majority of the top half of the NHL is trying to 'buy' quality NHL players with draft picks and prospects. This way their team, in the now, gets markedly better, because they're only giving up future pieces instead of current value. While the bottom half of the NHL is trying to 'sell' quality roster players for future pieces. Sacrificing their current NHL team so their future gets markedly better. Historically, high talent player for player trades don't happen very often. Over the past 5 years or so, and the entire NHL, you can maybe point to that Panarin/Saad deal and the Hall/Larsson deal. (Key note: one of the partaking teams got fucked in each of those trades)

Based on that history, the concept of trading away your entire core (Simmonds, Voracek, Giroux, as mentioned) for high level NHL talent, is completely unrealistic. Maybe you can move one of them in a player for player, change of scenery, type move, but expecting or hoping for all 3 of them to go in deals like that is wasted keystrokes.

 

[lasgop8]

I don't, but I'm not saying they did try. You're saying they haven't tried as if its fact.

And tbh with you, I have no idea what you're willing to trade these guys for. Every day you come on here and say they suck and you want to trade them. You said you'd trade them for 50 pt guys a couple weeks back, Rust is on pace for nearly that this year. So who really knows what you're looking to do. I think you understand they're not going to trade Voracek for a Stamkos, McDavid, Ovechkin type player, but maybe that's what you expect, I don't know.

Here is what is a fact. We have missed the playoffs 4 of the last 7 years and are the worst team in the league right now .Also a fact is we are on a 7 game losing streak after having a 10 game losing streak last season and i am sick and tired of watching this core and the rest of the team suck in a Flyers jersey for the last 7 years.

So if you are happy with that great im happy for you. I am not in the least happy with any of that and i like most fans who are booing this team night in and night out are ready to blow this up. The minority of fans who would like to keep this team and just make little tweaks again more power to you.

 

[lasgop8]

I agree that changes, including trades, need to be made. I also think some of the players that can be moved will have a higher value at the trade deadline, when some teams are desperate and will overpay. Problem is that most teams want to move picks. Here are some trades I found:

To BRUINS: Rick Nash (NYR retains 50 percent)
To RANGERS: Ryan Spooner, Matt Beleskey (BOS retains 50 percent), Ryan Lindgren, 2018 first-round pick, 2019 seventh-round pick.
Other than a 1st, woof.

To SHARKS: Evander Kane
To SABRES: 2019 conditional first-round pick, 2020 conditional fourth-round pick, Daniel O’Regan

To RED WINGS: 2018 1st round pick, 2019 2nd round pick, 2021 3rd round pick
To GOLDEN KNIGHTS: Tomas Tatar

To LIGHTNING: Ryan McDonagh, JT Miller
To RANGERS: Vladimir Namestnikov, Brett Howden, Libor Hajek, 2018 1st round pick, conditional 2nd round pick

Blue Jackets acquire Artemi Panarin, Tyler Motte and a 2017 sixth-round draft pick from the Blackhawks in exchange for Brandon Saad, Anton Forsberg and 2018 fifth-round draft pick.

Not many big time players coming back for a better player. Unfortunately, there does not appear to be a quick fix until free agency next year.

That being said, I still expect Simmonds to go for picks, Raffl for a 4th. I don't think you get equal value for G or Couts, not sure about Jake and who would want JVR?

Only we would want JVR UGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

 

[lasgop8]

Exactly the point I've been trying to make.

A change of scenery type trade eliminates most teams as trade partners because the cup contenders like what they have and want to add, and the basement dwellers want to get future parts, not add big contracts. So you're talking about the muddled middle, or the teams that had high expectations and fell on their face (like the Flyers). So you're talking about the Hawks and Blues maybe as your targets? Maybe the Kings? It's hard to make trades when you have the whole NHL to wheel and deal with, when you get down to 4-5 teams that fit your change of scenery criteria, it becomes nearly impossible.

Historically, not saying this is always a fact, but HISTORICALLY, the majority of the top half of the NHL is trying to 'buy' quality NHL players with draft picks and prospects. This way their team, in the now, gets markedly better, because they're only giving up future pieces instead of current value. While the bottom half of the NHL is trying to 'sell' quality roster players for future pieces. Sacrificing their current NHL team so their future gets markedly better. Historically, high talent player for player trades don't happen very often. Over the past 5 years or so, and the entire NHL, you can maybe point to that Panarin/Saad deal and the Hall/Larsson deal. (Key note: one of the partaking teams got fucked in each of those trades)

Based on that history, the concept of trading away your entire core (Simmonds, Voracek, Giroux, as mentioned) for high level NHL talent, is completely unrealistic. Maybe you can move one of them in a player for player, change of scenery, type move, but expecting or hoping for all 3 of them to go in deals like that is wasted keystrokes.

So lets just trade Gee and Simmonds. Simmonds because of his contract situation and Gee because he is the only one we can trade without losing much value.The others can go over the summer.

 

[awaz]

So lets just trade Gee and Simmonds. Simmonds because of his contract situation and Gee because he is the only one we can trade without losing much value.The others can go over the summer.

I honestly don't see a situation where a team would give up enough for me to trade Giroux, assuming we want the Flyers to get better in the near term. Giroux is the only elite caliber player they have, and they don't have an elite potential player behind him. He's literally all they have in terms of super star potential. If you're of the belief that you need super star talent to win Stanley Cups, which I am, you can't trade Giroux.

 

[awaz]

Kucherov
MacKinnon
McDavid
Matthews
Marner

That's the list of guys I'd be willing to trade Giroux for, assuming I'm trying to get better in the near future. If you can convince one of those teams to give up one of those guys, I'd trade Giroux. Otherwise, I'll take my chances with Giroux.

 

[lasgop8]

Kucherov
MacKinnon
McDavid
Matthews
Marner

That's the list of guys I'd be willing to trade Giroux for, assuming I'm trying to get better in the near future. If you can convince one of those teams to give up one of those guys, I'd trade Giroux. Otherwise, I'll take my chances with Giroux.

Thats my point. We have been taking our chances with Giroux and it hasn't worked. Doesn't mean he is bad it just means we havent made the playoffs for the 4th time in 7 years with him and the other part of the core and gee just happens to be the most marketable at this time.
Not to mention all 4 of those players are way better than Gee with their age as a factor so you are over rating Gee just putting his name with those guys.

 

[awaz]

Thats my point. We have been taking our chances with Giroux and it hasn't worked. Doesn't mean he is bad it just means we havent made the playoffs for the 4th time in 7 years with him and the other part of the core and gee just happens to be the most marketable at this time.
Not to mention all 4 of those players are way better than Gee with their age as a factor so you are over rating Gee just putting his name with those guys.

Giroux is an elite NHL player to everyone except ignorant Flyers fans that blame the team rebuilding on the only super star they've had since 1994. So keep repeating they haven't made the playoffs in 4 out of 7 years all you'd like, the fact is they were rebuilding most of those years and holding Giroux accountable for them missing the playoffs is idiotic. Their roster was inferior to the majority of the NHL. If you'd rather blame Giroux than recognize the roster deficiencies, then go right ahead. Philly can chase another star out of town because they're too small minded to realize when the team around their star, sucks.

I know he's not as good as those players, but I'm not trading Giroux for anything short of a super star NHL player. And I don't want to trade him for older guys on worse contracts than him. IMO they're closer to a super star on defense with Provorov than they are with any of the forwards or forward prospects. So cutting out the super star NHL players that are older than Giroux, defensemen, or have worse contracts than Giroux, and that's the list you end up with.

So you end up right back where I started, I'm not trading Giroux.

 

[lasgop8]

Giroux is an elite NHL player to everyone except ignorant Flyers fans that blame the team rebuilding on the only super star they've had since 1994. So keep repeating they haven't made the playoffs in 4 out of 7 years all you'd like, the fact is they were rebuilding most of those years and holding Giroux accountable for them missing the playoffs is idiotic. Their roster was inferior to the majority of the NHL. If you'd rather blame Giroux than recognize the roster deficiencies, then go right ahead. Philly can chase another star out of town because they're too small minded to realize when the team around their star, sucks.

I know he's not as good as those players, but I'm not trading Giroux for anything short of a super star NHL player. And I don't want to trade him for older guys on worse contracts than him. IMO they're closer to a super star on defense with Provorov than they are with any of the forwards or forward prospects. So cutting out the super star NHL players that are older than Giroux, defensemen, or have worse contracts than Giroux, and that's the list you end up with.

So you end up right back where I started, I'm not trading Giroux.

We arent rebuilding this year and we have Giroux and are one of if not the worst in the entire league so what good is it to keep the only player who would bring us back a return of near equal value.

 

[chy1127]

So lets just trade Gee and Simmonds. Simmonds because of his contract situation and Gee because he is the only one we can trade without losing much value.The others can go over the summer.

Why would you want to lose any value in trading your best player? I am not sure what you think we can get for him, but it would be a combination of picks and a contract dump. He also has a NMC, and he seems to want to stay. I also noticed Simmonds has a modified not trade clause. He can pick 12 teams he wont go to.

We arent rebuilding this year and we have Giroux and are one of if not the worst in the entire league so what good is it to keep the only player who would bring us back a return of near equal value.

Gee has a NMC and who knows if he would waive it. Also, what would you want to get back for him? I think most teams that want him will want to send picks (which would be high picks in whatever round) and would possibly have to dump a contract. If you really want to move him, I really think it has to be in the off season to get something good back.

 

[awaz]

We arent rebuilding this year and we have Giroux and are one of if not the worst in the entire league so what good is it to keep the only player who would bring us back a return of near equal value.

Giroux is one player out of 23 on the roster. This isn't the NBA where 1 star can make you a championship contender.

I can ask the same asinine question in reverse. What good does it do to trade the only player who's worth anything? So you shake up the talent and keep the same garbage on the roster? You think that will make you better? You're even hedging yourself by saying near equal value, insinuating that you know they won't get equal value. So you're watering down your talent level, and keeping the trash, and expecting to be better?

 

[lasgop8]

Why would you want to lose any value in trading your best player? I am not sure what you think we can get for him, but it would be a combination of picks and a contract dump. He also has a NMC, and he seems to want to stay. I also noticed Simmonds has a modified not trade clause. He can pick 12 teams he wont go to.

Gee has a NMC and who knows if he would waive it. Also, what would you want to get back for him? I think most teams that want him will want to send picks (which would be high picks in whatever round) and would possibly have to dump a contract. If you really want to move him, I really think it has to be in the off season to get something good back.

It depends how much hes worth to a playoff team on what they are offering. With Gee we hold all the cards. He still playing well and if they want him they would have to pay his value or they dont get him.
If im Gee i say to myself i keep missing the playoffs in Philly why wouldn't i waive my NMC.

 

[lasgop8]

Giroux is one player out of 23 on the roster. This isn't the NBA where 1 star can make you a championship contender.

I can ask the same asinine question in reverse. What good does it do to trade the only player who's worth anything?

Gee goes as well as Simmonds of the core at this time as my earlier post states. Weal Weise and all the other scrubs can go now but the rest of the core goes in the summer when their value would be better.

 

[awaz]

Gee goes as well as Simmonds of the core at this time as my earlier post states. Weal Weise and all the other scrubs can go now but the rest of the core goes in the summer when their value would be better.

Now you're being hypocritical. A couple pages ago you said the only thing that was the same was the core, so we have to get rid of them to get better. We've been through X coaches, X bottom 6s, X defensemen, but you still want to change out the other parts?

So which is it, is the core rotten or does the rest of the team suck?

 

[awaz]

It depends how much hes worth to a playoff team on what they are offering. With Gee we hold all the cards. He still playing well and if they want him they would have to pay his value or they dont get him.
If im Gee i say to myself i keep missing the playoffs in Philly why wouldn't i waive my NMC.

According to you, he's the reason they're missing the playoffs. Surely he recognizes that too.

 

[awaz]

The Oilers traded Hall because they needed a shake up. Hall became an MVP caliber player and the Oilers still suck.

Trading a superstar player to shake things up is an unnecessary risk.

 

[lasgop8]

Now you're being hypocritical. A couple pages ago you said the only thing that was the same was the core, so we have to get rid of them to get better. We've been through X coaches, X bottom 6s, X defensemen, but you still want to change out the other parts?

So which is it, is the core rotten or does the rest of the team suck?

I dont know how many times i can say the core needs to go. Ill say it again the core needs to go. Gee and Simmonds first the rest over the summer how is that hypocritical? Wait Ill say it one more time the core needs to go as they are the only constant in our 7 years of disappointing hockey.
One other side note the core needs to go.

 

[lasgop8]

According to you, he's the reason they're missing the playoffs. Surely he recognizes that too.

According to me hes the reason we are missing the playoffs? HAVE YOU GONE INSANE??? Gee is a PART of the reason we keep missing the playoffs even a blind dumb and deaf man knows that Gee is not the sole reason we are missing the playoffs 4 of the last 7 years but a PART of the reason.