49ers could pursue Kirk Cousins regardless of Redskins' decision, report says

[Stymietee]

I was just about to address this because I knew that the . You take any of the top QB's in this league and combine them ONLY with the talent that Kirk CURRENTLY has and you're looking at minimum 40 touchdowns.

Correction it should read.......You take any of the top QB's in this league and combine them ONLY with the talent that Kirk CURRENTLY has around him and you're looking at minimum 40 touchdowns.

 

[Sharkinva]

I was just about to address this because I knew that the extremist of the world would go there. The NFL is a talent based league. This means that you go only as far as your talents take you. You don't acquire new talents, just become more proficient at what you're able to do. Therein lies the real question, can a QB with Kirk Cousins talent level become more proficient than he already is. As noted by many others here when touting his numbers, he's pretty efficient now between the twenty yard lines. What you and some others are actually saying is, Kirk can become a superstar by being even more proficient than he currently is less proficient. Kirk is a five year NFL player who now has two full seasons under his belt. We know that he can move the ball between the twenties, so any improvement will come as a result of being much more efficient 20 yards in. You take any of the top QB's in this league and combine them ONLY with the talent that Kirk CURRENTLY has and you're looking at minimum 40 touchdowns. Right now he averages 36 over two seasons, but inside those numbers tell the real story. In 2015 his TD total was 29, this year 25. Where's the improvement? Hell if you're going to insist on using the tired "IF" as in, if he had a better running game, if he had a better defense, etc. etc. Don't!! it's a specious argument, anyone C.O.U.L.D. get better, but in this instance, where's the evidence?

Here's his two starting years stats: (I've made red the areas where he could improve, notice anything?)

Year G Att Comp Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD TD% Int Int% Lng 20+ 40+
2016 16 606 406 67.0 37.9 4,917 8.1 307.3 25 4.1 12 2.0 80 69 13
2015 16 543 379 69.8 33.9 4,166 7.7 260.4 29 5.3 11 2.0 78 50 8

Nice swing, he threw one less TDs than Eli Manning. I wont go into the who if if if, as it apparently only counts when saying the QB is not good enough.

But WHEN your entire offense revolves around having a Super Star at QB and nothing else, well you generally end up a 7-9 to 10-6 team as long as said named super stud does not have a bad day. Kirk can and likely will improve in the redzone when the team as a whole improves in the redzone.

 

[DJ Fieri]

This has to be one of the most moronic articles I have ever read. On so many fronts.

This.

 

[Stymietee]

Nice swing, he threw one less TDs than Eli Manning. I wont go into the who if if if, as it apparently only counts when saying the QB is not good enough.

But WHEN your entire offense revolves around having a Super Star at QB and nothing else, well you generally end up a 7-9 to 10-6 team as long as said named super stud does not have a bad day. Kirk can and likely will improve in the redzone when the team as a whole improves in the redzone.

We're not talking about Eli Manning or for that matter anyone else except Kirk Cousins. The question on the table at the moment is....can Kirk Cousins improve? A question that is key to what we're all talking about ad infinitum here. So if you don't mind let's stay on topic.

I gave the facts and thus far the evidence says that he is highly efficient between the twenty yard lines, so any needed improvement must come where he is currently weak. The evidence say that although we all hope that he can improve, he hasn't in fact he has regressed a bit.

BTW: No one is asking for some Superstar, if that is what you read in my previous post, check it again. Is it really too difficult to ask for more efficiency from the guy that we have? Is it really a stretch to point out that in the area where he needs to improve, he has not? Again I'll ask the question and will stay on the point until there is an answer.....If he can improve, where's the proof based on what he's done?

 

[Sharkinva]

We're not talking about Eli Manning or for that matter anyone else except Kirk Cousins. The question on the table at the moment is....can Kirk Cousins improve? A question that is key to what we're all talking about ad infinitum here. So if you don't mind let's stay on topic.

See you blew that out the window when you made the statement..... Any other QB would have thrown for 40 TDs wit the talent around him that Kirk had. I paraphrase a bit, but this was your meaning.

I gave the facts and thus far the evidence says that he is highly efficient between the twenty yard lines, so any needed improvement must come where he is currently weak. The evidence say that although we all hope that he can improve, he hasn't in fact he has regressed a bit.

BTW: No one is asking for some Superstar, if that is what you read in my previous post, check it again. Is it really too difficult to ask for more efficiency from the guy that we have? Is it really a stretch to point out that in the area where he needs to improve, he has not? Again I'll ask the question and will stay on the point until there is an answer.....If he can improve, where's the proof based on what he's done?

So let me get this straight.. you need proof that Kirk can improve. But its a pretty good idea to ditch Kirk because we MIGHT find a better QB? And the entire team regressed a bit, but lets only hold this must improve standard to the QB.

 

[Stymietee]

See you blew that out the window when you made the statement..... Any other QB would have thrown for 40 TDs wit the talent around him that Kirk had. I paraphrase a bit, but this was your meaning.




So let me get this straight.. you need proof that Kirk can improve. But its a pretty good idea to ditch Kirk because we MIGHT find a better QB? And the entire team regressed a bit, but lets only hold this must improve standard to the QB.

Dude, what the hell are you talking about? I told you about that flawed thinking, I don't need proof that Kirk can improve, I just want those who are saying this to back up what THEY are saying with anything. I have proof of what Kirk has done and presented it here, but it seems nobody wants to deal with that. I personally don't give a flat damn what this team does just as long as it translates into wins on game days, consistent playoff appearances and SB trophies.

 

[j_y19]

Im just curious. What is your position on KC. Are you all in on him and pay him whatever he wants? what if the 49ers offer him a significant amount over the Luck deal. Do we match it? Take the draft picks?

My position on KC? My position is that he is a good QB but still is flawed. But I also have seen him over come previous flaws through dedication and hard work and there is a very good possibility that he can over come many of his current flaws with additional experience and hard work. I truly believe that he has the POTENTIAL to become a QB on the level of a Drew Brees. That doesn't mean he will, just he has that potential. I don't buy in to the premise that his success is tied soley to the talent around him. While they absolutely contributed to the success he has had, I dont care how good his receivers are, he still had to make the reads and put the ball in the right place consistently and accurately. This is a feat that 2/3s of the QBs in the league can not do and 95% of the QBs coming out of college will not be able to do.

Because of this, and because we have nothing on the horizon who is proven to be better, I am all in. Do we pay him what he wants? I have no idea, because I don't know what he wants, although what I believe he really wants is respect. Treat him fair and treat him like he is wanted and this deal will get done to the satisfaction of both parties. The 49ers can't offer him anything because we still have the rights over him at this time so that is a moot point.

The money is immaterial. Its all funny money. Rarely do contracts go to term and they are all written in ways with outs and performance clauses. So to argue if he should be paid $20 or 22 or 24 M is a worthless debate because it makes no difference in the big picture. Either you believe in him or you don't. If you believe, sign him asap and move on to addressing the other glaring weaknesses this team has. If you don't believe in him, then cut him loose in the best way for the team. That's what i believe.

 

[j_y19]

See you blew that out the window when you made the statement..... Any other QB would have thrown for 40 TDs wit the talent around him that Kirk had. I paraphrase a bit, but this was your meaning.




So let me get this straight.. you need proof that Kirk can improve. But its a pretty good idea to ditch Kirk because we MIGHT find a better QB? And the entire team regressed a bit, but lets only hold this must improve standard to the QB.

This is the crux of the debate. to let a player go that has a proven track record of performance for a chance at one that might be better but unproven just makes no sense to me, especially given the actual success rate of college QBs coming into the NFL. This is why some argue that there have to be ulterior motives for the replace KC argument.

As for proof that he can improve? The best proof is history. Look at the issues he has already overcome through his own hard work. Why is it preposterous to believe that he can't also overcome his still existing flaws?

 

[Sharkinva]

This is the crux of the debate. to let a player go that has a proven track record of performance for a chance at one that might be better but unproven just makes no sense to me, especially given the actual success rate of college QBs coming into the NFL. This is why some argue that there have to be ulterior motives for the replace KC argument.

I would also have to add, given this teams particular failure rate with college QBs and knowing that the one QB we have had any sustained measure of success with is the guy we are debating ditching.

Yea.... I seriously wish some would explain their willingness to consider stepping back into the abyss. I get that its alot of money, I get that Kirk isnt elite. But I wonder, if we had had a QB of Kirks limited Skill level back when we had say.. .Gregg Williams and a consistent top ten Defense.... How good would THAT team have been?>

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

keep kirk my god we draft trbrisket or what ever if that qb sucks this fanchise would be a laughing stock dumbest move ever pay kirk what he wants and move forward

 

[deanpet21]

My position on KC? My position is that he is a good QB but still is flawed. But I also have seen him over come previous flaws through dedication and hard work and there is a very good possibility that he can over come many of his current flaws with additional experience and hard work. I truly believe that he has the POTENTIAL to become a QB on the level of a Drew Brees. That doesn't mean he will, just he has that potential. I don't buy in to the premise that his success is tied soley to the talent around him. While they absolutely contributed to the success he has had, I dont care how good his receivers are, he still had to make the reads and put the ball in the right place consistently and accurately. This is a feat that 2/3s of the QBs in the league can not do and 95% of the QBs coming out of college will not be able to do.

Because of this, and because we have nothing on the horizon who is proven to be better, I am all in. Do we pay him what he wants? I have no idea, because I don't know what he wants, although what I believe he really wants is respect. Treat him fair and treat him like he is wanted and this deal will get done to the satisfaction of both parties. The 49ers can't offer him anything because we still have the rights over him at this time so that is a moot point.

The money is immaterial. Its all funny money. Rarely do contracts go to term and they are all written in ways with outs and performance clauses. So to argue if he should be paid $20 or 22 or 24 M is a worthless debate because it makes no difference in the big picture. Either you believe in him or you don't. If you believe, sign him asap and move on to addressing the other glaring weaknesses this team has. If you don't believe in him, then cut him loose in the best way for the team. That's what i believe.

So if you are all in on him then you would get into a bidding war with the 49ers if we don't use the franchise tag on him. If we do use the tag the 49ers can still make a play for him by offering him a long term contract and give us draft picks. So why will he sign with us right away when he knows that the 49ers offer will be higher than SM's initial offer? KC will be using his leverage to his advantage and will wait as long as he has to try to get the most guaranteed money as possible. Any NFL player would do the same ting.

You say the money doesn't matter but I believe it does. I don't think SM will overpay for an unproven QB when he can get draft picks in return plus save a bunch of money which could be used on other players in FA to make this team better. As you know if FA contracts get crazy so why would KC sign the initial SM long term offer if there is even a long term offer from SM? It just doesn't make sense for KC. This is going to get dragged out b/c the 49ers will be major players for KC.

IF the 49ers offer more guarantee money than Luck plus give us the #2 overall pick and a pick in the 2018 draft how can you expect SM to turn that down? I like KC as a QB but I don't think he can become an elite QB. I want him back b/c it gives us a better shot of winning in 2017 but the offer that I just mentioned from the 49ers puts us in a good position for the future.

This will be the hardest decision that SM is going to have to make in his time here. It could go either way.

 

[Sharkinva]

So if you are all in on him then you would get into a bidding war with the 49ers if we don't use the franchise tag on him. If we do use the tag the 49ers can still make a play for him by offering him a long term contract and give us draft picks. So why will he sign with us right away when he knows that the 49ers offer will be higher than SM's initial offer? KC will be using his leverage to his advantage and will wait as long as he has to try to get the most guaranteed money as possible. Any NFL player would do the same ting.

You say the money doesn't matter but I believe it does. I don't think SM will overpay for an unproven QB when he can get draft picks in return plus save a bunch of money which could be used on other players in FA to make this team better. As you know if FA contracts get crazy so why would KC sign the initial SM long term offer if there is even a long term offer from SM? It just doesn't make sense for KC. This is going to get dragged out b/c the 49ers will be major players for KC.

IF the 49ers offer more guarantee money than Luck plus give us the #2 overall pick and a pick in the 2018 draft how can you expect SM to turn that down? I like KC as a QB but I don't think he can become an elite QB. I want him back b/c it gives us a better shot of winning in 2017 but the offer that I just mentioned from the 49ers puts us in a good position for the future.

This will be the hardest decision that SM is going to have to make in his time here. It could go either way.

OK couple of things.

1. There will be no bidding war. The Niners can make him an offer only if we make him the non exclusive tag offer. At which point we an either match their offer or take the draft picks. But they cant up the offer if we decide to match.

2. You cant OVERPAY if you are paying what it takes to get the player you want. The concept of over paying is to say, you paid $30M a year for a guy you could have gotten for $24M a year.

3. I would expect Scot to turn it down once he realizes that we could take the picks and end up no better than the Rams after we gave up a fuck ton of picks for Griffin. Never pass up on a player you know works in your system for the chance to draft a guy when you have no idea who will be there and where you will be drafting in any case. DArnold was a freshman for all intents this year. Supposed he decides to NOT go into the draft in 2018 and that was our end game.... Welcome to what the fuck do we do nowville, population Redskins.


Its only a hard decision if Scot thinks like the owner or the portion of the fanbase that places more importance on sexy over substance.

 

[j_y19]

So if you are all in on him then you would get into a bidding war with the 49ers if we don't use the franchise tag on him. If we do use the tag the 49ers can still make a play for him by offering him a long term contract and give us draft picks. So why will he sign with us right away when he knows that the 49ers offer will be higher than SM's initial offer? KC will be using his leverage to his advantage and will wait as long as he has to try to get the most guaranteed money as possible. Any NFL player would do the same ting.

You say the money doesn't matter but I believe it does. I don't think SM will overpay for an unproven QB when he can get draft picks in return plus save a bunch of money which could be used on other players in FA to make this team better. As you know if FA contracts get crazy so why would KC sign the initial SM long term offer if there is even a long term offer from SM? It just doesn't make sense for KC. This is going to get dragged out b/c the 49ers will be major players for KC.

IF the 49ers offer more guarantee money than Luck plus give us the #2 overall pick and a pick in the 2018 draft how can you expect SM to turn that down? I like KC as a QB but I don't think he can become an elite QB. I want him back b/c it gives us a better shot of winning in 2017 but the offer that I just mentioned from the 49ers puts us in a good position for the future.

This will be the hardest decision that SM is going to have to make in his time here. It could go either way.

I think you have too much time on your hands. I don't believe this is hard at all for SM. I fully expect they are hammering out a deal as we debate and he will be signed for an amount that you will term as crazy within the next few weeks. Everyone assumes that since we don't hear any leaks, that nothing is happening. I doubt that is the case.

 

[Sharkinva]

I think you have too much time on your hands. I don't believe this is hard at all for SM. I fully expect they are hammering out a deal as we debate and he will be signed for an amount that you will term as crazy within the next few weeks. Everyone assumes that since we don't hear any leaks, that nothing is happening. I doubt that is the case.

Those hoping for us to deal Kirk to the Niners are for the most part the same who thought the 2012 trade was a good idea. Sexy over substance.

 

[skinsdad62]

can anyone come up with KC's numbers in the red zone as a starter in 2015 ? my recollection was the stats were pretty darn good

many a good qb in this league too awhile to win "big games " i wonder back 15 just how big those 4 straight wins were with the playoffs on the line every week > i would say pretty big

 

[Stymietee]

can anyone come up with KC's numbers in the red zone as a starter in 2015 ? my recollection was the stats were pretty darn good

many a good qb in this league too awhile to win "big games " i wonder back 15 just how big those 4 straight wins were with the playoffs on the line every week > i would say pretty big

Here ya go Dad....Here's the link

2015 Red Zone Passing Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2015/redzone-passing.htm

.......And here are his stats: (2015)

Inside the 20
Red Zone Passing Stats

Player..............tm....cmp...att....cmp%...yds...TD...Int
Kirk Cousins.......WAS...50......79......63.29.....345....22......0

Inside the 10
Red Zone Passing Stats

Player..............tm......cmp...att....cmp%..yds...TD....Int
Kirk Cousins......WAS......25....39....64.10.....99.....16.......0


...And his stats (2016)

Inside the 20
Red Zone Passing Stats


Player.....................tm.......cmp...att.....cmp%...yds...TD...Int
Kirk Cousins.......WAS.....38....83.....45.78.....264.....14....2


Inside the 10
Red Zone Passing Stats

Player ....................tm.......cmp...att....cmp%...yds..TD....Int
Kirk Cousins.......WAS.....12....38....31.58......56.....8........2



SN: In 2015 Cousins finished 7th in the Red Zone. In 2016 he finished 17th

 

[countryroads316]

Here ya go Dad....Here's the link

2015 Red Zone Passing Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com
www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2015/redzone-passing.htm

.......And here are his stats: (2015)

Inside the 20
Red Zone Passing Stats

Player..............tm....cmp...att....cmp%...yds...TD...Int
Kirk Cousins.......WAS...50......79......63.29.....345....22......0

Inside the 10
Red Zone Passing Stats

Player..............tm......cmp...att....cmp%..yds...TD....Int
Kirk Cousins......WAS......25....39....64.10.....99.....16.......0


...And his stats (2016)

Inside the 20
Red Zone Passing Stats


Player.....................tm.......cmp...att.....cmp%...yds...TD...Int
Kirk Cousins.......WAS.....38....83.....45.78.....264.....14....2


Inside the 10
Red Zone Passing Stats

Player ....................tm.......cmp...att....cmp%...yds..TD....Int
Kirk Cousins.......WAS.....12....38....31.58......56.....8........2



SN: In 2015 Cousins finished 7th in the Red Zone. In 2016 he finished 17th

The division was down in 2015 look what happened in just one year he dropped 10 spots and I don't feel too good about his stats for next season here

 

[Stymietee]

The division was down in 2015 look what happened in just one year he dropped 10 spots and I don't feel too good about his stats for next season here

He did run the offense pretty efficiently though between the 20 yard lines. Everyone, including myself looked forward to Kirk's next step forward. As I researched this final statistics for this year I thought it interesting to compare the two seasons and was actually pretty dismayed at what I found. When Dad asked for them, I was only going to give the link but thought it better to also post the stats.

This is going to be a difficult decision for the front office to make, but for me, despite this, I still am going to stick with being 98% sure that he gets a long term deal, even though these stats worry me a bit in that regard.

 

[deanpet21]

I think you have too much time on your hands. I don't believe this is hard at all for SM. I fully expect they are hammering out a deal as we debate and he will be signed for an amount that you will term as crazy within the next few weeks. Everyone assumes that since we don't hear any leaks, that nothing is happening. I doubt that is the case.

Of course it is hard with Kyle going to the 49ers. This makes it interesting. Why would KC sign a deal right away? That doesn't make sense he has all the leverage. He can wait until the end of the tagging process. Especially if he knows that a long term deal is coming from the 49ers. This situation is not plain and simple at all.