scherf VS williams

[Darrell Green Fan]

I was as tough on Dean as anyone when he was cheering Griffin's injury. But maybe it's because I agree with him to a point on this or whatever but I really don't see why everyone is jumping on him so violently today.

Moses played surprisingly well this year, we should be happy instead of harping on a few sacks against a playoff team.

 

[Sharkinva]

I was as tough on Dean as anyone when he was cheering Griffin's injury. But maybe it's because I agree with him to a point on this or whatever but I really don't see why everyone is jumping on him so violently today.

Moses played surprisingly well this year, we should be happy instead of harping on a few sacks against a playoff team.

MAybe every one is on him for his misguided belief that we made a mistake in Drafting Scherff because we should have known we already had the greatest RT to ever play the position on roster. Moses played OK. But this is more about Deans frustration that we passed on Williams than it is on Moses playing at an all pro level.

 

[deanpet21]

lol cmon Shark you know what I am saying.

 

[j_y19]

MAybe every one is on him for his misguided belief that we made a mistake in Drafting Scherff because we should have known we already had the greatest RT to ever play the position on roster. Moses played OK. But this is more about Deans frustration that we passed on Williams than it is on Moses playing at an all pro level.

Exactly. Dean is looking to justify his position that Moses should have been drafted higher in 2014. All of these pissing contests he gets into is all about Dean wanting to be told he was right about who and when to draft. That's also why he takes the position on Murphy in another thread. Because he thinks the Murphy pick was a bad one. Murphy probably was a reach, but he has played ok and you don't trade him or cut him. Every team needs the Trent Murphys to provide depth and STs play at a reasonable price. This whole thread is all about Dean looking to have his ego stroked and, DGF, you just did it.

 

[deanpet21]

lol. thanks jy for admitting Murphy was a reach.

 

[j_y19]

lol. thanks jy for admitting Murphy was a reach.

If you would actually read what most of us post, many agree that he was a reach, but you don't throw a productive player away just because he wasn't drafted in the right spot.

 

[deanpet21]

who said throw away? I never said cut him. Some guys on here would turn down a 3rd round pick for him. That is why I responded the way I did. Its irrelevant b/c no team is going to offer anything for him.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

A look at Moses and his development from last year. Didn't want to bother with a new thread.

A closer look at the performance of Morgan Moses this season

 

[skinsdad62]

A closer look at the performance of Morgan Moses this season

here is the break down of moses . his rookie year it is plainly simple why he was a 3rd round pick

last season much improved

the kicker is we got a decent RT in that draft a round later then you wanted dean and yet you cant let it go

 

[Sharkinva]

lol cmon Shark you know what I am saying.

Yea.. what you are saying is, we made a mistake in passing on Williams for Scherff because we had the all mighty Moses. Future Hall of Famer destined to change the position of RT as we know it. We get it.

 

[gkekoa]

I was as tough on Dean as anyone when he was cheering Griffin's injury. But maybe it's because I agree with him to a point on this or whatever but I really don't see why everyone is jumping on him so violently today.

Moses played surprisingly well this year, we should be happy instead of harping on a few sacks against a playoff team.

We are rough on Dean because he speaks of absurdity. He reads articles from Walter and looks at mocks by entertainers and thinks that makes him a wealth of knowledge. He then translates that into stretches and OMG deals in the draft when the truth is...players get drafted, typically, where they belong. When all 32 teams have a chance to draft Moses and all 32 teams pass on Moses, then no we did not get a steal. We got a player where he belonged and hopefully it works out.

When we take Murphy in the 2nd, that is likely where he was on many team boards. Just because Mayock says it is a stretch, doesn't make it so.

Nobody here is hoping Moses does poorly. Nobody. Even Shark would love to see him have a HOF career. I am not even that surprised by the year Moses had. It was OK but Dean seems to think he had this stellar pro bowl season and made Scherff a All Rookie at guard...rather than Scherff may have made Moses a better player.

Then there is the insanity of trading Murphy for a fourth rounder when I have showed him countless times that Murphy is an above average second pick. I am not saying he is an above average OLB...I am saying in terms of second rounders, he has worked out better than most. Also, he was willing to trade him for a fourth rounder...I can show the success rate there too if I need to but it won't do any good...Dean is delusional.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

This whole thread is all about Dean looking to have his ego stroked and, DGF, you just did it.

WTF are you talking about? This entire thread exists because Dad decided to start up with Dean, he has admitted it in the thread. You act as if it was started by Dean. He has simply been responding to the shots he is taking for having a different opinion and you appear to be leading the attack.

As for me I'm not stroking anyone's ego, I have no idea why you would say that. I'm simply agreeing with his position, a position I have held since long before the draft and that's hardly a secret.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

We are rough on Dean because he speaks of absurdity. He reads articles from Walter and looks at mocks by entertainers and thinks that makes him a wealth of knowledge. He then translates that into stretches and OMG deals in the draft when the truth is...players get drafted, typically, where they belong. When all 32 teams have a chance to draft Moses and all 32 teams pass on Moses, then no we did not get a steal. We got a player where he belonged and hopefully it works out.

When we take Murphy in the 2nd, that is likely where he was on many team boards. Just because Mayock says it is a stretch, doesn't make it so.

Nobody here is hoping Moses does poorly. Nobody. Even Shark would love to see him have a HOF career. I am not even that surprised by the year Moses had. It was OK but Dean seems to think he had this stellar pro bowl season and made Scherff a All Rookie at guard...rather than Scherff may have made Moses a better player.

Then there is the insanity of trading Murphy for a fourth rounder when I have showed him countless times that Murphy is an above average second pick. I am not saying he is an above average OLB...I am saying in terms of second rounders, he has worked out better than most. Also, he was willing to trade him for a fourth rounder...I can show the success rate there too if I need to but it won't do any good...Dean is delusional.

I'm on record as being against trading Murphy for a 3rd-4th. But you guys act like his opinion on the Moses and Murphy picks are totally off the wall and impossible to justify. Moses played better than Murphy this year in my opinion and as posted this allowed the team to move Scherff to a position he could play well immediately. Moses was critical to the OL's improvement for this reason while Murphy had little impact and eventually lost playing time to a rookie who was clearly the better player. Moses was a third round pick and Murphy was drafted a full round earlier. So yeah, there is pretty good evidence to support Dean's position that Moses was an excellent pick and Murphy not so much. Even if there wasn't such evidence he should be allowed to share his opinion, that's kind of what these message board things are all about.

Many posters have positions we don't agree with. I still laugh at Shark's "how many pass rushers do you need?" comment. But he didn't get attacked the way Dean has for holding a position that frankly has a lot more merit than Shark's.

 

[deanpet21]

thanks dgfan. I have proved all my points that I argued. How are they delusional if what I am talking about is true?
Facts:
1)Murphy will be a backup/St player this year and is the worst pass rushing OLB on the team.
2) Gabe Jackson is a better OG than Long
3) By Moses winning the RT job Scherff succeeded at RG.
4) If Trent went down we can not put our #5 overall pick to play LT. Nske got the start against the Jets.

I never said Scherff was a bad pick but to take someone at #5 overall and you have questions that he could be a NFL tackle is puzzling to me. Luckily he doesn't have to play OT for our team and he can grow into a Pro Bowl guard. The reason why Scherff didn't have to get throw into the Wolves at tackle is b/c the play of Moses. Some guys on here don't believe that. That is fine but if Moses didn't step up and Scherff had to start at RT our line would have been worst this year on the right side. That is not a fact but its a very valid observation.

 

[j_y19]

thanks dgfan. I have proved all my points that I argued. How are they delusional if what I am talking about is true?
Facts:
1)Murphy will be a backup/St player this year and is the worst pass rushing OLB on the team.
2) Gabe Jackson is a better OG than Long
3) By Moses winning the RT job Scherff succeeded at RG.
4) If Trent went down we can not put our #5 overall pick to play LT. Nske got the start against the Jets.

I never said Scherff was a bad pick but to take someone at #5 overall and you have questions that he could be a NFL tackle is puzzling to me. Luckily he doesn't have to play OT for our team and he can grow into a Pro Bowl guard. The reason why Scherff didn't have to get throw into the Wolves at tackle is b/c the play of Moses. Some guys on here don't believe that. That is fine but if Moses didn't step up and Scherff had to start at RT our line would have been worst this year on the right side. That is not a fact but its a very valid observation.

I rest my case, DGF. None of these points are proven facts, but opinions only. Dean doesn't understand the difference.

 

[deanpet21]

Of course they are facts. Long is better than Jackson right now? Everything happened on my other three points.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I rest my case, DGF. None of these points are proven facts, but opinions only. Dean doesn't understand the difference.

Your "case" was the entire thread was all about Dean looking to have his ego stroked and I was feeding that ego when the FACT is the thread was started by Dad for the sole purpose of ragging on Dean, he simply responded and I did nothing other than agree with his opinion. Because he used the word "fact" instead of "opinion" doesn't change any of that.

 

[gkekoa]

I'm on record as being against trading Murphy for a 3rd-4th. But you guys act like his opinion on the Moses and Murphy picks are totally off the wall and impossible to justify. Moses played better than Murphy this year in my opinion and as posted this allowed the team to move Scherff to a position he could play well immediately. Moses was critical to the OL's improvement for this reason while Murphy had little impact and eventually lost playing time to a rookie who was clearly the better player. Moses was a third round pick and Murphy was drafted a full round earlier. So yeah, there is pretty good evidence to support Dean's position that Moses was an excellent pick and Murphy not so much. Even if there wasn't such evidence he should be allowed to share his opinion, that's kind of what these message board things are all about.

Many posters have positions we don't agree with. I still laugh at Shark's "how many pass rushers do you need?" comment. But he didn't get attacked the way Dean has for holding a position that frankly has a lot more merit than Shark's.

Nobody has said Murphy outplayed Moses. I believe most would actually say Moses outplayed Murphy but Dean has never made that statement. He simply uses that as justification for Moses being drafted in the second and Murphy being picked too high. It doesn't work like that and he fails to understand that. It is fine to disagree with taking a pick and even bringing it up when you are correct but that doesn't mean we made a mistake taking Murphy in round 2 instead of Moses. We got Moses in round 3 because he was a third round prospect as determined by 32 NFL organizations.

We don't know the actual reason Murphy lost playing time. One factor could be we were a better team at the end of the season and were not playing from behind so we needed a better pass rusher in he game.

Again, the big reason Dean gets crap is his lack of understanding of draft expectations.

 

[gkekoa]

thanks dgfan. I have proved all my points that I argued. How are they delusional if what I am talking about is true?
Facts:
1)Murphy will be a backup/St player this year and is the worst pass rushing OLB on the team.
2) Gabe Jackson is a better OG than Long
3) By Moses winning the RT job Scherff succeeded at RG.
4) If Trent went down we can not put our #5 overall pick to play LT. Nske got the start against the Jets.

I never said Scherff was a bad pick but to take someone at #5 overall and you have questions that he could be a NFL tackle is puzzling to me. Luckily he doesn't have to play OT for our team and he can grow into a Pro Bowl guard. The reason why Scherff didn't have to get throw into the Wolves at tackle is b/c the play of Moses. Some guys on here don't believe that. That is fine but if Moses didn't step up and Scherff had to start at RT our line would have been worst this year on the right side. That is not a fact but its a very valid observation.

1) It isn't a fact. It is an assertion. You believe it will happen and so do I but it isn't fact.

2) again, this is your belief. I am sure there are metrics that may support this statement but you haven't provided them. You believe Long played poorly and an Oakland fan said Jackson played well...sorry but that isn't proof. Bring something substantial such as sacks allowed per pass attempt for each player...make it even better by narrowing that to when the teams are within a TD of the opponent. Maybe YPC running behind that player. But no matter what you say...it still isn't fact...it is belief.

3) I agree in a roundabout way. Scherff was going to be successful wherever he played. Moses beating out Long to have the best OL we could have caused Scherff to be successful at guard rather than OT.

4) no shit. Scherff isn't a LT anymore than Moses.


Nobody here is claiming that the OL wasn't better with Moses than it would have been without him. We are saying it was better because Moses was better than the other option at guard.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

but that doesn't mean we made a mistake taking Murphy in round 2 instead of Moses. We got Moses in round 3 because he was a third round prospect as determined by 32 NFL organizations.

We don't know the actual reason Murphy lost playing time. One factor could be we were a better team at the end of the season and were not playing from behind so we needed a better pass rusher in he game.

Again, the big reason Dean gets crap is his lack of understanding of draft expectations.

See I don't agree with this logic. Was Richard Sherman a 5th round talent because 32 teams determined that's what he was? Of course not. Moses has exceeded most 3rd round picks' projections, I think that is obvious, while Murphy is just a guy and has certainly not lived up to the expectations when they drafted him in my opinion. High 2nd round picks should be really solid starters, Murphy is a backup at this point and for the foreseeable future.

I think Dean understands draft expectations just fine. He expected Moses to play better than Murphy the day they were both drafted and it is becoming pretty clear to me that his expectations were on target.