scherf VS williams

[deanpet21]

Never said bad draft pick. I just don't like taking guards in the top 5. The big argument was that people on here said he was a tackle and I disagreed with them. Taking a guard over a DE didn't make sense for me. I know I have to live with it but its just funny how are DL is in disarray right now. If Long worked out the way he was supposed to we wouldn't even be looking at a Olineman in the 1st round.

 

[Sharkinva]

Never said bad draft pick. I just don't like taking guards in the top 5. The big argument was that people on here said he was a tackle and I disagreed with them. Taking a guard over a DE didn't make sense for me. I know I have to live with it but its just funny how are DL is in disarray right now. If Long worked out the way he was supposed to we wouldn't even be looking at a Olineman in the 1st round.

If long worked out the way he was supposed to have, Scherff would have been the starting RT and Moses would have been worming pine to start the season. Or are you saying that if Long had worked out we would have drafted Williams over Scherff??

 

[deanpet21]

Yes if Long worked out I think we would have taken Williams. b/c you would have had Lavoou and Long as the guards and Moses the 3rd round pick to start at RT. Now if we drafted Gabe Jackson over Long the oline wouldn't have been in such shambles. I also think the signing of Paea had a lot to do with not drafting Williams. At the time we signed Paea, Williams was regarded as the #1 overall draft prospect. At that time I believe SM didn't think he had a chance at Williams at #5. Just my theory

 

[j_y19]

Yes if Long worked out I think we would have taken Williams. b/c you would have had Lavoou and Long as the guards and Moses the 3rd round pick to start at RT. Now if we drafted Gabe Jackson over Long the oline wouldn't have been in such shambles. I also think the signing of Paea had a lot to do with not drafting Williams. At the time we signed Paea, Williams was regarded as the #1 overall draft prospect. At that time I believe SM didn't think he had a chance at Williams at #5. Just my theory

He was thought of as the #1 overall draft pick by people that don't matter. The guys that do matter, GMs of NFL teams, he clearly wasn't the overall first pick. In fact, he was passed up by 4 teams. You gloss over the fact that there were concerns over his ethic and off the field issues. That is why SM passed on him. It's not all about the stats, the player has to fit the mold of what you are trying to build.

 

[deanpet21]

Valid Point jy but the top 2 teams needed a QB so its really 3 teams that passed on him. Jax went for the best pass rusher in the draft and Oakland went for the best offensive player in the draft. IF the tope 2 teams didn't need a QB it becomes a different story

 

[martinez]

He's been great but there's no need to knock Williams

 

[j_y19]

Valid Point jy but the top 2 teams needed a QB so its really 3 teams that passed on him. Jax went for the best pass rusher in the draft and Oakland went for the best offensive player in the draft. IF the tope 2 teams didn't need a QB it becomes a different story

That's the point. You listen to these guys that say he is going no.1 yet everyone knew tenn. and TB needed QBs. They should lose credibility immediately.

Bottom line is that draft is over. We got a great player at a position of need. In fact, the whole draft appears to have been a success. What good does it do to try and compare the two at this stage other than to get people to agree that you were somehow right, as if that matters. Williams may turn out great. I'm very confident Schreff will, barring injury. Just be happy we didn't blow the pick on some useless heap of trash and hope that SM does as well this year. For if he does, we will be a force to be reckoned with.

 

[deanpet21]

Obviously QB trumps everything. The experts knew Williams wasn't going 1 or 2. The draft was solid. no argument.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

That's the point. You listen to these guys that say he is going no.1 yet everyone knew tenn. and TB needed QBs. They should lose credibility immediately.

Bottom line is that draft is over. We got a great player at a position of need. In fact, the whole draft appears to have been a success. What good does it do to try and compare the two at this stage other than to get people to agree that you were somehow right, as if that matters. Williams may turn out great. I'm very confident Schreff will, barring injury. Just be happy we didn't blow the pick on some useless heap of trash and hope that SM does as well this year. For if he does, we will be a force to be reckoned with.

Agree. For those with short memories let's look at the #1 picks for the Redskins for the previous 10 years:

2012-2014 - RG3
2011 - Kerrigan
2010 - Williams
2009 - Orakpo
2008 - Part of trade that amounted to three sucky receivers
2007 - Landry
2006 - Traded as part of Jason Campbell trade
2005 - Rogers, Campbell

Hmm - Kerrigan & Williams are certainly very good & Orakpo contributed but not as much as we would have liked due to injuries. Beyond that (for anything more than a season or two) these picks would have to be considered failures. Do people forget that quickly?

Who cares if Schreff is not the best O lineman on the planet or whether Williams will go on to the HOF. The positive is that Schreff contributed immediately & barring injury should be able to do so for a very long time. I expect the same for the current picks & those that are picked in the foreseeable future. Again - the draft is all about retaining & developing players who contribute to the success of a given team.

 

[Sharkinva]

Yes if Long worked out I think we would have taken Williams. b/c you would have had Lavoou and Long as the guards and Moses the 3rd round pick to start at RT. Now if we drafted Gabe Jackson over Long the oline wouldn't have been in such shambles. I also think the signing of Paea had a lot to do with not drafting Williams. At the time we signed Paea, Williams was regarded as the #1 overall draft prospect. At that time I believe SM didn't think he had a chance at Williams at #5. Just my theory

Bullshit.

Because even IF Long had worked out, we still needed a RT. There fore they would have drafted the best player available and NOT reached for the sexy D-lineman that apparently was NOT the best player in the draft.

You have even admitted people were surprised Moses could start. So why would they have been depending on him if no one expected him to be able to start?? There for, the idea that they would have taken Williams EVEN IF Long had worked out is a complete fantasy. Because after all, they drafted Scherff with the intention of playing him at RT and only moved him inside because Long ended up being less ready than they thought.

 

[deanpet21]

don't start this again shark. you know the real reason why Sherff was moved. Why did we still need a RT when we had Moses where Gruden was very high on in the offseason? People were surprised Moses started but I and the coaching staff weren't b/c we knew that he had upside. There were multiple reports that people doubted that if Scherff could be a NFL tackle b/c of his lack of foot spped. So how do you know the Skins didn't feel the same way. SM knew if he didn't work out at tackle he could always move him to guard b/c our guards were just average at best. SM had a backup plan in place when he drafted Scherff. So Sm wins in any situation. Smart man. If we had good guards and we put Scherff at RT and he failed like he did in training camp then SM would of got destroyed for taking him at #5 overall. So SM covered his ass.

 

[Sharkinva]

If Gruden was that high on him, why Draft Scherff and call him a RT at all??

Either we drafted the Best player available, or we drafted for need at RT.

Both leave the Williams idea a pick short.

 

[deanpet21]

b/c it gave us a great insurance policy if Moses failed. The oline needed to be addressed b/c Long stunk so it was a win win.

 

[Sharkinva]

b/c it gave us a great insurance policy if Moses failed. The oline needed to be addressed b/c Long stunk so it was a win win.

So wait... now we passed up on the best player in the draft on an insurance policy that we actually didnt need?? By your logic we would have been fine considering that LONG did end up starting for us. IF Long stunk going into the draft process, we should have basically never drafted Scherff as a RT or tried him there.

Look dude, lets be honest here. I can admit I hate RG3 and hope he rots in the depths of NFL backup hell.

Now your turn... just admit you are spinning the Scherff thing because you are still miffed we passed on Williams.

Because as you have stated, if Long had worked out, we either didnt need Scherff, or the real truth being if Long had worked out MOses would have been a backup to Scherff.

 

[skinsdad62]

the reason the evil moderator made this post is to tweak dean a bit . no other reason. do any of you who have seen my post really believe that i think williams has reached his peak ?

now to address a few things .. first scherf was the best player on the board and being a OG shouldnt have mattered

2nd perhaps management felt that a great d/line class was coming out this year , why not take the best o/lineman in the class ? scherf's stats are at or near pro bowl level

now some of you have forgotten my philosophy on draft picks i have a break down on how top ten picks should perform year one how mid round firsts should , how late round first should , how 2nd's should how 3rds should , how 4ths 5ths 6ths and 7ths should

it is a graduated scale with 3 years to get to wear they can but lets get real most picks after round 4 are gone from the nfl in short order

and for the record my opinion on the draft and who gets picked is as good as any pundit , beat reporter or computer hack

i look and study quite a bit . doesnt make me a genius , but look at who you are dealing with as a GM and look at the positions we need , and i bet a player gets plugged into a spot .

 

[gkekoa]

Murphy did not produce this year that is why his playing time got cut for Smith. I was always a fan of KC and why would I cut the backup QB at the time. Moses has produced more for this team than Murphy and was coming off an Lisfranc injury.

How am I a hypocrite if the guys I wanted in previous drafts are producing better than Long and Murphy. What if we bring in another pass rusher besides Galette this year. Do you really think Murphy is going to see the field?

As usual you miss the point.

Murphy is going into year three and you want him gone.

KC was historically bad for his first 3.5 years. You are a hypocrite. You are glad we gave KC time to improve but refuse to allow Murphy the same time.

Moses was solid but nothing special. Go back and watch that GB game and see how bad Moses was.

 

[deanpet21]

you guys are missing the point. gk you are comparing a QB to an OLb. what? KC was not historically bad. He showed that he could run Grudens system just needed more playing time. You seem to think Murphy has a high ceiling. I disagree. Don't even knock Moses when you praise Long and Murphy. Moses is more important to this team than Long and Murphy. We will see how much playing time Long and Murphy get this year.

Shark im not spinning the Sherff thing. I bring up valid points for my reasoning. Sherff is our Rg and I have no problem with it.

 

[gkekoa]

you guys are missing the point. gk you are comparing a QB to an OLb. what? KC was not historically bad. He showed that he could run Grudens system just needed more playing time. You seem to think Murphy has a high ceiling. I disagree. Don't even knock Moses when you praise Long and Murphy. Moses is more important to this team than Long and Murphy. We will see how much playing time Long and Murphy get this year.

Shark im not spinning the Sherff thing. I bring up valid points for my reasoning. Sherff is our Rg and I have no problem with it.

I figured you would go there. I am comparing players that take time to learn the game. I have listed several players that had fewer sacks in their first two years than Murphy but you discount them.

I never said Murphy has a high ceiling and have stated numerous times that I expect PS to be better. My problem with your stance is in absolutes. I have shown you numerous times that the typical second round pick is not nearly as productive as Murphy and you want to trade him for a fourth rounder.

I have never praised Long or Murphy. I have repeatedly stated they are not as bad as your distorted view makes them out to be. Why can't I knock Moses? He was solid, not great. Moses was destroyed by GB. Stating a fact is simply stating a fact.

 

[skinsdad62]

i am just wondering , since when has murphy been "historically bad " ? answer he has not . he has started 23 of 32 games as a 2nd round pick nuff said for historically bad

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Ryan Clark started 16 games, Chris Chester started for several years. That does not mean they were any good.

The biggest factor in evaluating our top pick in my opinion was the surprising emergence of Morgan Moses. Had this not happened and Scherff stayed at right tackle out of necessity there's a very good chance this thread does not exist.