Series Thread: Golden State Warriors vs. Cleveland Cavaliers NBA Finals Thread

[WiggyRuss]

If it's that important to you. Knock your socks off. It'll just prove my point that Cavs fans and Lebroniacs can't stand any criticism of Lebron.

I can stand warranted criticism about LeBron- but I mean - when you are pretty much universally hailed as the best player of your generation, have won 4 MVPs (is it 4 or 3? maybe i am wrong), been to the Finals 5 times straight- and you join a team it goes from the lotto to the Finals- and you leave a team and it goes from the Finals to the lotto- you are not exactly criticism-proof- but i dunno how far from it you are- and certainly he was not at the height of his efficiency (to say the least) in the Finals- but he did almost go for a 35 point triple double for the series.

There are some valid criticisms about LeBron without a doubt- but i mean- the guy has never wound up in court and is pretty good at basketball...i mean...what else is there?

 

[gordontrue]

For the most part the discussion on Jordan/GOAT in this thread involves 1 of 2 things.

Someone bringing it up out of the blue as a method to criticize LeBron, like this:

"Best player in the world" is now 2 of 6 in the NBA finals.

Can we end this GOAT bullshit once and for all now?

(The irony is that there was no GOAT talk at that point... so "can we end this GOAT..." is actually bringing it up more than ending it.)


Then there's people who - when pointing out a counter argument - get accused of saying LeBron is the GOAT and end up having to clarify:

For the record, don't take my last post as me saying LeBron>Jordan. I think Jordan is the GOAT.

But use the mountain of data that actually supports that argument, not lazy, superficial, cliches

Turnup of all people actually got accused of that in this thread and had to clarify that just because he thought Finals records was a poor evaluation.... he didn't think LeBron was GOAT.

And where did I EVER say he was better than Jordan?

My point is that using the 6-0 TEAM Finals record is a piss poor way to evaluate the talent of individuals.

Of 25 references to "GOAT" in this thread... only 1 came from someone with a Cavs logo in their name... and that was me in my previous post to you. Of the 115 references to Jordan... I couldn't find a single poster arguing on the side of LeBron who didn't later clarify that they believe Jordan is the GOAT.

 

[trojanfan12]

I can stand warranted criticism about LeBron- but I mean - when you are pretty much universally hailed as the best player of your generation, have won 4 MVPs (is it 4 or 3? maybe i am wrong), been to the Finals 5 times straight- and you join a team it goes from the lotto to the Finals- and you leave a team and it goes from the Finals to the lotto- you are not exactly criticism-proof- but i dunno how far from it you are- and certainly he was not at the height of his efficiency (to say the least) in the Finals- but he did almost go for a 35 point triple double for the series.

There are some valid criticisms about LeBron without a doubt- but i mean- the guy has never wound up in court and is pretty good at basketball...i mean...what else is there?

There are valid criticisms about every NBA player. However, it's seems to be only Cavs fans and Lebroniacs that feel the need to defend him against any criticism no matter how valid it is.

I don't see that with any other player past or present.

 

[trojanfan12]

For the most part the discussion on Jordan/GOAT in this thread involves 1 of 2 things.

Someone bringing it up out of the blue as a method to criticize LeBron, like this:



(The irony is that there was no GOAT talk at that point... so "can we end this GOAT..." is actually bringing it up more than ending it.)


Then there's people who - when pointing out a counter argument - get accused of saying LeBron is the GOAT and end up having to clarify:



Turnup of all people actually got accused of that in this thread and had to clarify that just because he thought Finals records was a poor evaluation.... he didn't think LeBron was GOAT.



Of 25 references to "GOAT" in this thread... only 1 came from someone with a Cavs logo in their name... and that was me in my previous post to you. Of the 115 references to Jordan... I couldn't find a single poster arguing on the side of LeBron who didn't later clarify that they believe Jordan is the GOAT.

Thank you for proving my point. I see your posts and raise you Shane, Wiggy and yourself. Does the Lebron cult have a secret handshake or decoder rings or something cool like that?

 

[gordontrue]

There are valid criticisms about every NBA player. However, it's seems to be only Cavs fans and Lebroniacs that feel the need to defend him against any criticism no matter how valid it is.

I don't see that with any other player past or present.

There's no other player right now who gets enough attention/praise/criticism to be a common conversation.

The same thing definitely happened with Kobe. MJ was before message boards and social media... but you would've had the same thing.

You just keep taking any contribution to the conversation that doesn't come in where you've drawn your own line in the sand... as "having to defend every criticism".

 

[gordontrue]

Thank you for proving my point. I see your posts and raise you Shane, Wiggy and yourself. Does the Lebron cult have a secret handshake or decoder rings or something cool like that?

So you make a post about how all the LeBroniacs think he is GOAT.

Then I make a post pointing out that none of the posters you claim to be "LeBroniacs" actually think that or have ever said that.


And the fact that I made that post... proves your point?


It feels like you are to the point where any one who disagrees with you - no matter the subject - is clearly a LeBroniac who defends him at all costs and thinks he is the GOAT.

 

[WiggyRuss]

So you make a post about how all the LeBroniacs think he is GOAT.

Then I make a post pointing out that none of the posters you claim to be "LeBroniacs" actually think that or have ever said that.


And the fact that I made that post... proves your point?


It feels like you are to the point where any one who disagrees with you - no matter the subject - is clearly a LeBroniac who defends him at all costs and thinks he is the GOAT.

I am confused- we both make posts declaring that LeBron will never ever be compared favorably to Jordan- and both admit that LeBron does deserve some criticism, but apparently the opposite of that.

LeBron definitely deserved huge criticism for how he handled the decision. He throws his coach under the buss on a fairly frequent basis, he has a tendency to dramatize a lot of what he does (all though he gets plenty of help with that from the media).

As far as being the best basketball player in the biz and being a role model i na world where there are precious few guys that can stand up to that scrutiny- LeBron has done a great job.

 

[trojanfan12]

So you make a post about how all the LeBroniacs think he is GOAT.

Then I make a post pointing out that none of the posters you claim to be "LeBroniacs" actually think that or have ever said that.


And the fact that I made that post... proves your point?


It feels like you are to the point where any one who disagrees with you - no matter the subject - is clearly a LeBroniac who defends him at all costs and thinks he is the GOAT.

And you think a couple of cherry picked posts disproves what I said? Meanwhile, you prove the whole point about being unable to accept any criticism of Lebron.

And the "anyone who doesn't agree with you remark" is complete and utter bullshit. I could just as easily say that you think anyone who doesn't agree with you is just a hater.

The difference is, it's very easy to find plenty of posts where I have given Lebron all kinds of praise and credit for being a great player. It's also easy to find posts where I've defended Lebron against criticism that I felt was unfair.

What is much harder to find are any posts where you have criticized him.

Keep digging that hole though.

 

[trojanfan12]

I am confused-

Finally!! Something we can ALL agree on.

 

[gordontrue]

And you think a couple of cherry picked posts disproves what I said? Meanwhile, you prove the whole point about being unable to accept any criticism of Lebron.

Wait... saying that LeBroniacs think he is GOAT... is a criticism of LeBron???

Wow.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

And you think a couple of cherry picked posts disproves what I said? Meanwhile, you prove the whole point about being unable to accept any criticism of Lebron.

And the "anyone who doesn't agree with you remark" is complete and utter bullshit. I could just as easily say that you think anyone who doesn't agree with you is just a hater.

The difference is, it's very easy to find plenty of posts where I have given Lebron all kinds of praise and credit for being a great player. It's also easy to find posts where I've defended Lebron against criticism that I felt was unfair.

What is much harder to find are any posts where you have criticized him.

Keep digging that hole though.

This x 100.
Of all people here, I think me and you have be the most honest and unbiased as far as calling it like it is regarding James. Plenty of good, plenty of bad,
Cavs fans who loved him, then hated him, who now love him again are blinded like they are under a spell in some sort of cult.

 

[trojanfan12]

There's no other player right now who gets enough attention/praise/criticism to be a common conversation.

The same thing definitely happened with Kobe. MJ was before message boards and social media... but you would've had the same thing.

You just keep taking any contribution to the conversation that doesn't come in where you've drawn your own line in the sand... as "having to defend every criticism".

Actually, you didn't have the same thing with Kobe. For the most part, once Kobe established himself, Lakers fans have all pretty much accepted that Kobe's an arrogant, egotistical asshole. We just don't care that he is because of all of the winning the Lakers have done over his career.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

For the most part the discussion on Jordan/GOAT in this thread involves 1 of 2 things.

Someone bringing it up out of the blue as a method to criticize LeBron, like this:



(The irony is that there was no GOAT talk at that point... so "can we end this GOAT..." is actually bringing it up more than ending it.)


Then there's people who - when pointing out a counter argument - get accused of saying LeBron is the GOAT and end up having to clarify:



Turnup of all people actually got accused of that in this thread and had to clarify that just because he thought Finals records was a poor evaluation.... he didn't think LeBron was GOAT.



Of 25 references to "GOAT" in this thread... only 1 came from someone with a Cavs logo in their name... and that was me in my previous post to you. Of the 115 references to Jordan... I couldn't find a single poster arguing on the side of LeBron who didn't later clarify that they believe Jordan is the GOAT.

"Of all people"??

 

[WiggyRuss]

This x 100.
Of all people here, I think me and you have be the most honest and unbiased as far as calling it like it is regarding James. Plenty of good, plenty of bad,
Cavs fans who loved him, then hated him, who now love him again are blinded like they are under a spell in some sort of cult.

honestly the fact that you think your are unbiased when it comes to LeBron just blows me away.

 

[gordontrue]

"Of all people"??

Just thought it was funny that you were accused of thinking LeBron is GOAT. I mean, I know you're pretty fair with LeBron in terms of on-court stuff... but you're not exactly president of his fan club.

 

[trojanfan12]

This x 100.
Of all people here, I think me and you have be the most honest and unbiased as far as calling it like it is regarding James. Plenty of good, plenty of bad,
Cavs fans who loved him, then hated him, who now love him again are blinded like they are under a spell in some sort of cult.

Yep. Heck, I've been criticized a little by a couple of fellow Lakers fans for saying that I'd welcome Lebron to the Lakers. Despite his "warts," Lebron is the best player in the game. Why wouldn't I want him on the Lakers?

Hurricane even once called me a "Lebron Lover" because I was defending Lebron on a thread. Damn near banned him for that one.

And if he were a Laker, I'd be just as critical of some of the crap he does and says. Then, when the game started, I'd root for him just like any other Laker.

 

[gordontrue]

This x 100.
Of all people here, I think me and you have be the most honest and unbiased as far as calling it like it is regarding James. Plenty of good, plenty of bad,
Cavs fans who loved him, then hated him, who now love him again are blinded like they are under a spell in some sort of cult.

This is the heart of the problem right here. You and trojan have declared yourself the golden standard of even, unbiased, evaluation of LeBron.

Anyone who doesn't criticize him for what you do or praise him for what you do... is clearly either a Lebroniac or an irrational hater.

Giving props for LeBron's achievements doesn't make you unbiased... let alone the golden standard. Just like my being willing to criticize LeBron for 2011 and his media gaffes doesn't make me unbiased.


I admit that I am on the LeBron side of the line... but you two --- while not extreme and completely biased --- are very much on the other side of the line.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

honestly the fact that you think your are unbiased when it comes to LeBron just blows me away.

Really?

When did I ever not say/or:

He was not the best player in the league?
Criticize him for utilizing his FA however he chose, which included banking millions doing a TV show?
Give vast importance to his Finals record?
Said he wasn't very charitable.

Pretty much anything he's ever accomplished on the court or basketball related, I've supported anything positive said about him.

My issues with him have pretty been about ANYTHING else.
I know first hand how he can be a dick, I don't believe his bullshit about anything else that basically comes out of his mouth.

 

[Shanemansj13]

The Lebron conversation is never-ending, just deal with it and move on. I am actually sick of talking about him.

 

[trojanfan12]

honestly the fact that you think your are unbiased when it comes to LeBron just blows me away.

Seriously?!? Turnup has always been the same re: Lebron. He enjoyed him being on the Heat and the 4 staright finals appearances and 2 titles. He also defended The Decision for the money that went to charity, but also said that is was poorly executed and came off badly.

He's always praised Lebron on the court (except for the 2011 disappearing act vs. the Mavs) and criticized some of the crap that he's pulled off the court, while also acknowledging that he's not had any legal issues, etc. unlike many other NBA players.

Not sure how much more unbiased he can be.