How dumb is it to say that Manning choked?

[TheRangerDude]

The entire premise of this thread is a fucking joke. FACT: Manning is a below .500 playoff QB. FACT: In his 3 SB's he has ranged from slightly below average to fucking terrible. The guy doesnt win when it matters. He just doesnt. He is 38 years old and it has been the same shit since his first playoff appearance to his last. He just led the GREATEST OFFENSE EVER to 8 fucking points in the Super Bowl. 8. 8 points. Its a joke. Saying Peyton Manning is the best QB of all time is like saying the 90s/2000s Braves were the most dominating baseball dynasty ever. Sure they are both great in the regular season but more times than not they piss it down their leg when it matters. Sure titles are won by teams BUT the true greats elevate their teams to those titles with their play. Thats what being great means. Its nice he threw 55 TD's this year and its great Denvers O was historically the best ever. When it counted Manning threw as many TD's to Seattle as he did his own team and his team scored 8 points. 8. 1 less point than the Seattle D scored and half as many as the Seattle D and ST's scored. The Seahawk offense literally didnt have to score a fucking point and Denver still would have gotten doubled up. Embarrassing.

FACT: QB's don't have records… teams do.

 

[NinerSickness]

FACT: QB's don't have records… teams do.

FACT: Manning is a choke artist.

 

[rmilia1]

FACT: QB's don't have records… teams do.

False. Google Peyton Manning career playoff record and you'll see plenty of links. Now Google Jeff Saturday career playoff record and tell me what you find. Its one thing if it happens 1 time or even 2 times. Manning led teams have lost AS THE FAVORITE in 8 of the 16 games in his career. Its not a one time incident. Its a historic trend. Teams arent favored 70% of the time and win less than 50% when they are led by the best QB of all time.

 

[TheRangerDude]

FACT: Manning is a choke artist.

Nah, I think that title belongs to my teams current QB. Congrats to your Seahawk's on an amazing game.

On a side note, don't you think that when you say the other team/individual choked that it takes credit from your own teams performance?

 

[TheRangerDude]

False. Google Peyton Manning career playoff record and you'll see plenty of links. Now Google Jeff Saturday career playoff record and tell me what you find. Its one thing if it happens 1 time or even 2 times. Manning led teams have lost AS THE FAVORITE in 8 of the 16 games in his career. Its not a one time incident. Its a historic trend. Teams arent favored 70% of the time and win less than 50% when they are led by the best QB of all time.

Now google search reptilian aliens from the planet Niburu… they must be real too.

 

[ram29jackson]

The entire premise of this thread is a fucking joke. FACT: Manning is a below .500 playoff QB. FACT: In his 3 SB's he has ranged from slightly below average to fucking terrible. The guy doesnt win when it matters. He just doesnt. He is 38 years old and it has been the same shit since his first playoff appearance to his last. He just led the GREATEST OFFENSE EVER to 8 fucking points in the Super Bowl. 8. 8 points. Its a joke. Saying Peyton Manning is the best QB of all time is like saying the 90s/2000s Braves were the most dominating baseball dynasty ever. Sure they are both great in the regular season but more times than not they piss it down their leg when it matters. Sure titles are won by teams BUT the true greats elevate their teams to those titles with their play. Thats what being great means. Its nice he threw 55 TD's this year and its great Denvers O was historically the best ever. When it counted Manning threw as many TD's to Seattle as he did his own team and his team scored 8 points. 8. 1 less point than the Seattle D scored and half as many as the Seattle D and ST's scored. The Seahawk offense literally didnt have to score a fucking point and Denver still would have gotten doubled up. Embarrassing.

he won a SB with a team...99.9 % of players have never done that...99.9% don't get to 3 super bowls either..with different teams...so saying he doesn't win when it matters is already false..being in the top 5 all time in stats and wins is called sucking?...leading the league in passing and getting to a SB is called sucking ?

coming back from a career ending injury is sucking ?

 

[WizardHawk]

Nah, I think that title belongs to my teams current QB. Congrats to your Seahawk's on an amazing game.

On a side note, don't you think that when you say the other team/individual choked that it takes credit from your own teams performance?

Nice Ninersickness, you have worn that awesome Seahawk avi for so long people are starting to think you are one of us.

 

[BigKen]

Since everyone's either defending the hell out of Manning or ripping his balls off..................

Two weeks ago, Tom Brady had a bad game against the Broncos. For days following the Patriots loss, Broncos fans shit all over Brady and called him choker and about half of them still have his photo of hold his head in his hand. Today they will not admit that Peyton Manning upchucked his Wheaties and yogurt all over himself in the Super Bowl.

Something that Bronco fans refused to recognize......Manning threw for 2 TDs against the Pats and Prater kicked 4 FGs. Didn't matter, Manning was still a god because he threw for 400 yards. Brady only threw for 277 yards and 1 TD, but ran for another.................................Yesterday Manning threw for 1 TD and 280 yards.......... Manning is still a god and Brady is dogshit.....

Manning didn't have Prater to bail his ass out yesterday because Manning couldn't get his team close enough to kick 8 field goals...................

 

[darken65]

Nice Ninersickness, you have worn that awesome Seahawk avi for so long people are starting to think you are one of us.

 

[rmilia1]

Since everyone's either defending the hell out of Manning or ripping his balls off..................

Two weeks ago, Tom Brady had a bad game against the Broncos. For days following the Patriots loss, Broncos fans shit all over Brady and called him choker and about half of them still have his photo of hold his head in his hand. Today they will not admit that Peyton Manning upchucked his Wheaties and yogurt all over himself in the Super Bowl.

Something that Bronco fans refused to recognize......Manning threw for 2 TDs against the Pats and Prater kicked 4 FGs. Didn't matter, Manning was still a god because he threw for 400 yards. Brady only threw for 277 yards and 1 TD, but ran for another.................................Yesterday Manning threw for 1 TD and 280 yards.......... Manning is still a god and Brady is dogshit.....

Manning didn't have Prater to bail his ass out yesterday because Manning couldn't get his team close enough to kick 8 field goals...................

Denver still would have lost by 11.... LOL

 

[TheRangerDude]

False. Google Peyton Manning career playoff record and you'll see plenty of links. Now Google Jeff Saturday career playoff record and tell me what you find. Its one thing if it happens 1 time or even 2 times. Manning led teams have lost AS THE FAVORITE in 8 of the 16 games in his career. Its not a one time incident. Its a historic trend. Teams arent favored 70% of the time and win less than 50% when they are led by the best QB of all time.

Seriously though, I will put aside the preposterous google has links for it for QBs records and not for lineman comment and look at your stats. All of the stats you listed are TEAM stats. How are you going to argue that QBs win or lose games with stats that are kept as an attempt to be a predictor on what a TEAM will do. Also, there is a logic flaw in your last statement. You are presuming that the gambling favorite in closely matched games wins most of the time when in reality these predictions are pretty much just reduced to chance with more evenly matched team. Not to mention, gambling odds are not very dependable stats.

Anyway, my point is W's and L's are not an official stat for QBs for a reason.

 

[JDM]

A QB has more impact on winning and losing than any other position, and it isn't close.

A QBs record is a very common and accepted statistic.

 

[NinerSickness]

Nice Ninersickness, you have worn that awesome Seahawk avi for so long people are starting to think you are one of us.

I'll have to second darken's

March 1st can't come soon enough.

 

[rmilia1]

Seriously though, I will put aside the preposterous google has links for it for QBs records and not for lineman comment and look at your stats. All of the stats you listed are TEAM stats. How are you going to argue that QBs win or lose games with stats that are kept as an attempt to be a predictor on what a TEAM will do. Also, there is a logic flaw in your last statement. You are presuming that the gambling favorite in closely matched games wins most of the time when in reality these predictions are pretty much just reduced to chance with more evenly matched team. Not to mention, gambling odds are not very dependable stats.

Anyway, my point is W's and L's are not an official stat for QBs for a reason.

OK how about the stat where Peyton Manning led teams have lost as many home and neutral site playoff games in his career as Tom Brady led teams have lost TOTAL playoff games in his??? Hows that for non biased?? Manning led teams have lost as many times in game NOT ON THE ROAD as Brady led teams have altogether... Hmmmm.

 

[sonnyblack65]

Since everyone's either defending the hell out of Manning or ripping his balls off..................

Two weeks ago, Tom Brady had a bad game against the Broncos. For days following the Patriots loss, Broncos fans shit all over Brady and called him choker and about half of them still have his photo of hold his head in his hand. Today they will not admit that Peyton Manning upchucked his Wheaties and yogurt all over himself in the Super Bowl.

What about reg season with homefield adv in playoffs online, Pats spot Peyton and Denver 24 points in half. Brady comes out and helps his team score 31 straight points while Manning didnt have 100 yards till mid 4th quarter. Real fucking clutch. Playoffs and Tom get in his head and he folds. Thanks Prater and Defense

 

[TheRangerDude]

A QB has more impact on winning and losing than any other position, and it isn't close.

A QBs record is a very common and accepted statistic.

I think your first statement has some truth to it but he still has to have people to throw to in order to make plays. Also, it is common now days to hear people talk about QB wins and Losses but there is still no official stat that keeps track of it, it is kept up with unofficially though. You are not going to look at the back of a football card or on a nfl stats website and see QBs with a stat column for W's and L's. You will hear a lot of talking heads mention it but thats just because thats what people want to hear. The bottom line is everyone on the field matters. If the O-line doesn't protect the QB very well, odds are he isn't going to put up good stats and its going to be harder for the offense to score. If a WR runs the wrong route and the QB gets picked, is that on the WR or the QB?

To say that the QB wins or losses games discredits the rest of the people on the field and is a very narrow minded way to view the game IMO. There are tons of variables.

 

[JDM]

I think your first statement has some truth to it but he still has to have people to throw to in order to make plays. Also, it is common now days to hear people talk about QB wins and Losses but there is still no official stat that keeps track of it, it is kept up with unofficially though. You are not going to look at the back of a football card or on a nfl stats website and see QBs with a stat column for W's and L's. You will hear a lot of talking heads mention it but thats just because thats what people want to hear. The bottom line is everyone on the field matters. If the O-line doesn't protect the QB very well, odds are he isn't going to put up good stats and its going to be harder for the offense to score. If a WR runs the wrong route and the QB gets picked, is that on the WR or the QB?

To say that the QB wins or losses games discredits the rest of the people on the field and is a very narrow minded way to view the game IMO. There are tons of variables.

Football cards? Do they still make those?

The best stats site in existence is pro-football-reference.com. It absolutely does list QB win/loss records.

 

[TheRangerDude]

OK how about the stat where Peyton Manning led teams have lost as many home and neutral site playoff games in his career as Tom Brady led teams have lost TOTAL playoff games in his??? Hows that for non biased?? Manning led teams have lost as many times in game NOT ON THE ROAD as Brady led teams have altogether... Hmmmm.

Isn't the keyword here still teams? One simple reason you could list is perhaps Brady's teams were just better and better coached. Also, this stat does noting to disprove my original post that teams win games… not QBs.

 

[rmilia1]

I think your first statement has some truth to it but he still has to have people to throw to in order to make plays. Also, it is common now days to hear people talk about QB wins and Losses but there is still no official stat that keeps track of it, it is kept up with unofficially though. You are not going to look at the back of a football card or on a nfl stats website and see QBs with a stat column for W's and L's. You will hear a lot of talking heads mention it but thats just because thats what people want to hear. The bottom line is everyone on the field matters. If the O-line doesn't protect the QB very well, odds are he isn't going to put up good stats and its going to be harder for the offense to score. If a WR runs the wrong route and the QB gets picked, is that on the WR or the QB?

To say that the QB wins or losses games discredits the rest of the people on the field and is a very narrow minded way to view the game IMO. There are tons of variables.

Working under this theory there would be no need for a HOF or any individual awards/records. Since everything on the field is team oriented then how can we possibly laud the accomplishments of one player in his career when he had so much help. I mean Jerry Rice didnt catch all those passes himself, Dan Marino didnt throw for all those years on his own, Walter Paytons rushing yards are a sham as they came within the team concept, Peyton didnt actually win 5 MVP's, his teams did. I understand your point, I get it but thats not how players in ANY era have been judged. They are judged on THEIR numbers and whether they win or not. Your concept is nice and all but its not how any sport actually works. Hell you can apply the same logic to basketball, baseball, hockey whatever. Just get rid of individuals in the HOF and vote in teams if thats how we want it.

 

[TheRangerDude]

Football cards? Do they still make those?

The best stats site in existence is pro-football-reference.com. It absolutely does list QB win/loss records.

The only sat that resembles that on that site is QBrec. And the definition of that stat is TEAM record in games started by this QB. Note again the word team but also its worth noting that this is an unofficial stat.