The Case Against MJ as the GOAT (topical discussion only please)

[dtgold88]

Franchise Stability is huge for team dynasty success. Think Lakers/Celtics, Spurs, Warriors, Bulls, even Patriots if you want to go NFL.

Now let’s compare MJ to Lebron as far as who benefitted from it more. Both Start with constant change, but Compare these careers:

Jordan: From Year 5 (1989) to his second retirement from the Bulls, he had one coach, one GM, and one owner.

Lebron had 4 coaches, 2 GM’s, and an ownership change in Cleveland in just his first 7 years. He goes to Miami with a rookie coach Spelstra under a self-installed rookie GM in Pat Riley. He comes back to Cleveland to a rookie European Coach in David Blatt under a different GM than when he left. Blatt is out by the next year for Ty Lue who is rookie coach. He goes to the Lakers under young coach Luke Walton only for tons of drama to explode as president of basketball operations Magic Johnson resigns saying he was backstabbed by GM Rob Pelinka. Walton is ousted from Head coach for Frank Vogul, and then rookie coach Darvin Ham is brought in.

MJ: 4 coaches, 2 GM’s (his rookie year was Rob Thorn, all others were Krause), and 1 Owner. If you want to add his Wizards swan song you can, but they were never a contender.

Lebron: 10 Coaches, 5 GM’s, 4 owners

IMO, it’s impressive a player with so much change was able to achieve so much success with so many different variables and versions.

Very good points.....though don't think I'd include the 5 GMs and 4 owners to prove instability for Lebron as considering it's 3 teams and 20+ seasons that's pretty stable.

 

[Jordan23]

Lebron got to a Finals without any of those guys and even won Finals games without any of them.

MJ never even won a playoff series without Pippen.

More facts to ignore for the true nuthuggers.

And once again, the same idiotic posting. Do you ever post anything that’s not half retarded?

 

[Jordan23]

Franchise Stability is huge for team dynasty success. Think Lakers/Celtics, Spurs, Warriors, Bulls, even Patriots if you want to go NFL.

Now let’s compare MJ to Lebron as far as who benefitted from it more. Both Start with constant change, but Compare these careers:

Jordan: From Year 5 (1989) to his second retirement from the Bulls, he had one coach, one GM, and one owner.

Lebron had 4 coaches, 2 GM’s, and an ownership change in Cleveland in just his first 7 years. He goes to Miami with a rookie coach Spelstra under a self-installed rookie GM in Pat Riley. He comes back to Cleveland to a rookie European Coach in David Blatt under a different GM than when he left. Blatt is out by the next year for Ty Lue who is rookie coach. He goes to the Lakers under young coach Luke Walton only for tons of drama to explode as president of basketball operations Magic Johnson resigns saying he was backstabbed by GM Rob Pelinka. Walton is ousted from Head coach for Frank Vogul, and then rookie coach Darvin Ham is brought in.

MJ: 4 coaches, 2 GM’s (his rookie year was Rob Thorn, all others were Krause), and 1 Owner. If you want to add his Wizards swan song you can, but they were never a contender.

Lebron: 10 Coaches, 5 GM’s, 4 owners

IMO, it’s impressive a player with so much change was able to achieve so much success with so many different variables and versions.

Lebron is the reason for half of those changes, lol.

 

[tlance]

Lebron is the reason for half of those changes, lol.

No, he wasn’t.

 

[trojanfan12]

Some days I am not sure which is funnier.

The desperation of LeBron fans to prove he's the GOAT.

Or the desperation of LeBron Haters to prove it's anyone else but.

Perhaps you can link the post where anyone tried to prove or even claimed that Lebron is the GOAT?

Because all that I have seen are folks stating that he has a case while either stating that MJ is the GOAT or not designating a GOAT and saying that MJ, Lebron and Kareem all have strong cases.

The MJ deep throaters are the ones stating that he is the GOAT and that "it's not close".

 

[MAGA2024]

Got some more painful FACTS and TRUTHS that LeBron supporters will not like:, especially the folks who defend LeBron vehementally but "claim" they're not fans.

According to Vegas odds LeBron should have made the Finals 12 times and won seven (7) Championships. Meanwhile Jordan was expected to reach the Finals 5 times and win 5 Championships:

LeBron: 12 and 7 expected vs. 12 and 4 (rings) in reality = massively FAILED expectations
Jordan: 5 and 5 expected vs. 6 and 6 (rings) in reality = EXCEEDED expectations

All told LeBron "failed" to either exceed OR even meet expectations a whopping ten (10) times in 22 seasons; Jordan only two (2) times in 15 seasons... both during his Wizards years.

Clearly this is (yet) another example of my contention that LeBron James not only isn't the GOAT, but he's not even close to Jordan, as facts/truths don't lie.

 

[Wamu]

Some days I am not sure which is funnier.

The desperation of LeBron fans to prove he's the GOAT.

Or the desperation of LeBron Haters to prove it's anyone else but.

Exactly who has said LeBron's the GOAT?

I haven't seen anyone outright say that.

 

[Wamu]

Perhaps you can link the post where anyone tried to prove or even claimed that Lebron is the GOAT?

Because all that I have seen are folks stating that he has a case while either stating that MJ is the GOAT or not designating a GOAT and saying that MJ, Lebron and Kareem all have strong cases.

The MJ deep throaters are the ones stating that he is the GOAT and that "it's not close".

Weird some of the LeBron hater's keep saying people are claiming LeBron's the GOAT.

Who are these people, could they be imaginary? Seems like it.

If one of those haters can answer that simple question it'll be something foolish like people on other sites.

 

[MAGA2024]

Lebron is the reason for half of those changes, lol.

LOL... I know, right??

LeBron's teams have made a staggering 118 trades while he's been on the team, and in 22 seasons he's played for ten (10) different head Coaches (that's one NEW Coach every 2.2 years for you mathematically challenged)..

This begs the question: Why would a player (who many "think" is close to Jordan on the GOAT list) need soooooooooooooooooooooooooo many different players/coaches around him just to win fewer Championships?

Seems it should be easy as pie to put a Championship level team around a guy who many claim IS the GOAT, no? Instead it's been a non-stop revolving door of Specialists (namely shooters), All Stars, All NBAers, and future HOFERS surrounding LeBron YET he's failed to exceed or even meet Vegas expectations almost half his career.

Once you open your eyes wide enough to see beyond his "empty stats" it becomes more and more obvious James isn't close to Jordan.

 

[Wamu]

Got some more painful FACTS and TRUTHS that LeBron supporters will not like:, especially the folks who defend LeBron vehementally but "claim" they're not fans.

According to Vegas odds LeBron should have made the Finals 12 times and won seven (7) Championships. Meanwhile Jordan was expected to reach the Finals 5 times and win 5 Championships:

LeBron: 12 and 7 expected vs. 12 and 4 (rings) in reality = massively FAILED expectations
Jordan: 5 and 5 expected vs. 6 and 6 (rings) in reality = EXCEEDED expectations

All told LeBron "failed" to either exceed OR even meet expectations a whopping ten (10) times in 22 seasons; Jordan only two (2) times in 15 seasons... both during his Wizards years.

Clearly this is (yet) another example of my contention that LeBron James not only isn't the GOAT, but he's not even close to Jordan, as facts/truths don't lie.

^^^^^^

Bizarre obsession confirmed.

Hey there's an article on this topic in the onion.-com sports section. I suggest you check it out.

 

[MAGA2024]

^^^^^^

Bizarre obsession confirmed.

Hey there's an article on this topic in the onion.-com sports section. I suggest you check it out.

So you're denying those were the Vegas odds each season (lol) "or" are you acknowledging LeBron truly is NOT close to Jordan?

 

[Wamu]

So you're denying those were the Vegas odds each season (lol) "or" are you acknowledging LeBron truly is NOT close to Jordan?

I'll say what I've said since beginning.

For LeBron to only be compared to MJ is one helluva compliment.

I have MJ as the GOAT. Pretty sure I've told you that before and you ignored it.

Seems you're just looking for any reason to carry on your foolish crusade.

Did I deny anything about those Vegas odd? No. You obviously have a reading comprehension issue. I mentioned that Super Bowl upset as an example of how Vegas is not always right. Kinda funny you couldn't figure that out on your own.

LeBron's in your head a lot.

 

[MAGA2024]

I'll say what I've said since beginning.

For LeBron to only be compared to MJ is one helluva compliment.

I have MJ as the GOAT. Pretty sure I've told you that before and you ignored it.

Seems you're just looking for any reason to carry on your foolish crusade.

LeBron doesn't deserve to be compared to Jordan because he's not close to Jordan, which has been my contention from the get-go... so it would appear that it's your "crusade" (you and a number of other posters) to try and argue that he is (close), yet here we are 32 pages later and no one has built even a somewhat legit argument to back it up.

In literally every conceivable category/measurement (except "career stats") LeBron falls woefully short of Jordan. He's not close.

If you agree, we're cool. If not, continue on with "your" crusade and let's get this thread to 50 pages.

lolol

 

[Mr. Friscus]

LeBron doesn't deserve to be compared to Jordan because he's not close to Jordan, which has been my contention from the get-go... so it would appear that it's your "crusade" (you and a number of other posters) to try and argue that he is (close), yet here we are 32 pages later and no one has built even a somewhat legit argument to back it up.

In literally every conceivable category/measurement (except "career stats") LeBron falls woefully short of Jordan. He's not close.

If you agree, we're cool. If not, continue on with "your" crusade and let's get this thread to 50 pages.

lolol

Lebrons in your head. You’ve got a weird MJ fetish. I can easily make the case for both, I’m happy to declare GOAT for each generation.. you’re triggered if anyone dares to question your religious MJ zeal

 

[trojanfan12]

LeBron doesn't deserve to be compared to Jordan because he's not close to Jordan, which has been my contention from the get-go... so it would appear that it's your "crusade" (you and a number of other posters) to try and argue that he is (close), yet here we are 32 pages later and no one has built even a somewhat legit argument to back it up.

In literally every conceivable category/measurement (except "career stats") LeBron falls woefully short of Jordan. He's not close.

If you agree, we're cool. If not, continue on with "your" crusade and let's get this thread to 50 pages.

lolol

Lol

This shit is just embarrassing... too bad you're not smart enough to post here...but thanks for proving everything that we've all been saying about you MJ deep throaters has been spot on.

Additionally, your inability to understand the points that have been made, doesn't mean they haven't been made...it just means you're stupid.

It's time for you to go back to whatever bullshit JV board you came from...you're not smart enough to post here.

 

[MAGA2024]

Lebrons in your head. You’ve got a weird MJ fetish. I can easily make the case for both, I’m happy to declare GOAT for each generation.. you’re triggered if anyone dares to question your religious MJ zeal

lol, no LeBron is not in my head... other than when I visit this board I'm not thinking of the POS.

That aside... you canNot make a case that LeBron is "close" to Jordan because he's not. Anything/everything you could possible bring up has already been thoroughly refuted by yours truly in this thread. "Volume stats" is the ONLY thing LeBron has on Jordan, and that alone does not get him close. Sorry if the truth disappoints you..

 

[MAGA2024]

Lol

This shit is just embarrassing... too bad you're not smart enough to post here...but thanks for proving everything that we've all been saying about you MJ deep throaters has been spot on.

Additionally, your inability to understand the points that have been made, doesn't mean they haven't been made...it just means you're stupid.

It's time for you to go back to whatever bullshit JV board you came from...you're not smart enough to post here.

You nor anyone else has refuted a single thing I wrote in this thread.... if you had then this thread wouldn't be 32 pages long AND counting, simpleton.

Why don't you start with just the very last post I wrote (regarding LeBron's FAILURE to meet or exceed expectations) for nearly half his career vs. MJ just twice in 15 years??

Start there... or is "winning" and "meeting expectations" conveniently not part of the GOAT criteria???

lol

GTHOH fool.... I'll run circles around you in a head-to-head LeBron vs. Jordan debate.

 

[trojanfan12]

You nor anyone else has refuted a single thing I wrote in this thread.... if you had then this thread wouldn't be 32 pages long AND counting, simpleton.

Why don't you start with just the very last post I wrote (regarding LeBron's FAILURE to meet or exceed expectations) for nearly half his career vs. MJ just twice in 15 years??

Start there... or is "winning" and "meeting expectations" conveniently not part of the GOAT criteria???

lol

GTHOH fool.... I'll run circles around you in a head-to-head LeBron vs. Jordan debate.

We already know that you're not smart enough to understand any of the points that have been made...no need to keep proving it.

 

[Jordan23]

No, he wasn’t.

Lol, so Bron wasn’t bouncing around stacking the cards in his favor?

 

[msgkings322]

Lol, so Bron wasn’t bouncing around stacking the cards in his favor?

Bron was doing exactly what MJ would be doing if he played in this era. Would MJ have come back to his hometown to bring them a ring?