Series Thread: 2) Phoenix Suns vs 7) LA Lakers

[Mebert]

Even in a time of clever ways around the salary cap the Lakers are in a tight spot. If Harrell opts out they just squeak under the cap, giving them access to yje full MLE. If he doesn't they are over the cap already and have only partial mle.

They can go over for Schroeder, but he has already turned down an overpay.

Unless some team takes KCP or Kuzma without sending back money, or inexplicably takes both and a future first for a real 3rd star they stuck building a team around ring seeking minimum contracts. I am not sure they are even in line for the best ring seekers at this point.

 

[flyerhawk]

the Raptors.

Well the hypothetical is that Lowry wants to leave. Obviously if he wants to stay then he would be a bad hypothetical. Replace him with Derozan or some other FA in that case.

OK. I actually thought that the Lakers had Shröder for another year but I guess he is a FA which changes things. In that case the Lakers would probably need to throw in a pick or 2 to make it worth the Raptors time to make the trade.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Harrell is a small ball center, something Kuzma can't do. He's more of a 3/4, with Harrell a 4/5. In the playoffs, McGee/Dwight got fewer and fewer minutes as the Lakers played small, so they added a small ball center who was 6th man of the year.

I guess same "skillset" isnt exactly what i was going for- more same level of talent. Why pay 2 power forwards a combined 23 million when Davis hates playing center and only wants to play PF? Id rather invest the money in a wing that can shoot a 3 and play a little D.

not only that but then the playoffs come and they dont even play Harrell hardly at all.

 

[shopson67]

Oh you can have Dame when he's 35

Who will have him in 21/22?

 

[msgkings322]

I never had him at #1 even in Cleveland.

Its still Jordan for me. 6-0.

Prime Wade and Prime Davis are easily better than anyone Jordan played with. Bosh is a hall of famer. Love might be a hall of famer (while you might react negatively to that- his numbers shooting/rebounding- are pretty historical). Kyrie will probably be a hall of famer and was awesome in the championship series they won.

I do have LeBron #2 though solidly.

Sure, and you're not alone. I have them as co-GOAT though, no time to get into it right now. Titles on 3 different teams, longevity, many more Finals appearances with far worse teams, etc.

 

[shopson67]

I don't think he panicked. I think the Lakers signed Gasol and Dwight reasonably thought that meant they were moving on from him especially as he thought he had a deal in place.

Dwight signed with the Sixers several days before the Lakers signed Gasol.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Even in a time of clever ways around the salary cap the Lakers are in a tight spot. If Harrell opts out they just squeak under the cap, giving them access to yje full MLE. If he doesn't they are over the cap already and have only partial mle.

They can go over for Schroeder, but he has already turned down an overpay.

Unless some team takes KCP or Kuzma without sending back money, or inexplicably takes both and a future first for a real 3rd star they stuck building a team around ring seeking minimum contracts. I am not sure they are even in line for the best ring seekers at this point.

i cant imagine any team would take on KCP and Kuzma's money into open cap space.

having access to the full MLE is nice though. Thatll be their big move I am guessing. I dont see the flexibility elsewhere unless they get creative with a Schroeder sign and trade---- but then that opens up a big PG hole.

 

[DJ]

37 years old in December, with like 3 whole extra seasons worth of playoff games, Olympic games, etc......LeBron has so much mileage on his odometer its really incredible he is still as good as he is.

Like Lance said, he may not be the dominant player he once was but he can still be an AS type that averages 22ppg, 7rpg, and 7apg. That's certainly nothing to be embarrassed about at 37.

 

[trojanfan12]

He may not be a hard worker typically in the offseason, but he didn't really have one last year anyway. He had to try to play last night, it was a must win game.

If he spent it just resting though, he would still be out of shape when the season started. It doesn't take nearly as long to get out of shape as it does to get into shape.

However, a better coaching decision would've been not to switch him defensively and maybe start him at the 5? Having him switch out onto guards with an injured groin was pure lunacy.

The problem is that's not how they had played all season. It's hard to completely change like that and they had the #1 defense all season long playing the way they did. Sooner or later, he was going to have to stretch it out a bit and the same thing was going to happen. At best, it would have bought him a few more minutes. Especially with the Suns attacking him like they did.

That said, there will be turnover. There is little reason for the Lakers to bring back Matthews, McKinnie, Dudley, McLemore, Antetokoumpo, and Cacok, while Morris, Harrell, and Drummond could very likely move on for more money. Two of those are 2 way players, but they need better options with those spots too.

I agree with what Dan Patrick just said. There's no need for the Lakers to panic. They need to make some changes, but they don't need to look to completely changeover a large chunk of the roster like they did last off-season. They improved on paper in the off-season, but because of the injuries, they never developed the chemistry that last years team had.

 

[msgkings322]

Who will have him in 21/22?

Probably Portland, but if not maybe the Knicks? Phoenix if CP3 leaves?

 

[shopson67]

I guess same "skillset" isnt exactly what i was going for- more same level of talent. Why pay 2 power forwards a combined 23 million when Davis hates playing center and only wants to play PF? Id rather invest the money in a wing that can shoot a 3 and play a little D.

not only that but then the playoffs come and they dont even play Harrell hardly at all.

That last bit was on the coaching staff that stuck with Drummond despite the poor matchups (then didn't play him at all last night).

 

[Montalban]

I know your shtick, but ill give it to you. I laughed.

Didn't he though? Sitting on the bench,. open-mouthed, staring at the replay screen to check on a flagrant. The face was the same.

 

[flyerhawk]

I never had him at #1 even in Cleveland.

Its still Jordan for me. 6-0.

Prime Wade and Prime Davis are easily better than anyone Jordan played with.

IT's completely reasonable to say that MJ is the GOAT. But let's not pretend he was surrounded by a bunch of scrubs.

 

[msgkings322]

Like Lance said, he may not be the dominant player he once was but he can still be an AS type that averages 22ppg, 7rpg, and 7apg. That's certainly nothing to be embarrassed about at 37.

This is what I meant above about the cracks starting to show. He's been the most dominant force since Jordan and he's clearly no longer in his prime. The decline has begun but from such a high level that he's still a great player.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Who will have him in 21/22?

I think the Blazers trade for KLove- and as a 3rd option he re-blossoms into a 3 pt shooting/rebounding/distributing maven.

wait---- i think there is a gas leak in my office. Sorry about that.

 

[Montalban]

To be fair, the stacked team in Cleveland would've worked out a lot better if an all time great team didn't happen to exist at the same time.

This year showed what a shitty GM james would make. he hand-picked this team and it was a disaster.

 

[tlance]

Dwight would likely have been back, but he panicked on day 1 of free agency, thinking he was a day 1 priority lol. Rondo turned down his player option and left for a sizable raise to Atlanta. Green was inconsistent last year, and with Rondo's exit the Lakers needed another playmaker. Drummond wasn't part of the plan, signed midseason due to AD's injury mostly (and the limitations of Gasol and Harrell). These weren't all part of a pre-conceived plan.

Laker fans constantly derided Danny Green’s shooting last year.

But, you all consistently undervalued his contributions.

He does 2 things that are extremely valuable to any contender:

1. He is a high level perimeter defender versatile enough to guard 1-3.

2. Even when he is missing, he is a shooter on the scouting report. Opposing teams must account for him, and that creates more space for LeBron and AD

The Lakers had nobody on their roster that could play that that role even close to as well as Green. The space he creates is valuable even when the shots don’t fall.

 

[WiggyRuss]

IT's completely reasonable to say that MJ is the GOAT. But let's not pretend he was surrounded by a bunch of scrubs.

i never said that- i just said Prime Davis and Wade are better then Pippen.

Notice I didnt say that about prime Bosh or Love.... Kyrie too.

its inarguable that LeBron has had much better teammates throughout his career.

 

[Montalban]

Down goes James, Down goes James!

 

[WiggyRuss]

Laker fans constantly derided Danny Green’s shooting last year.

But, you all consistently undervalued his contributions.

He does 2 things that are extremely valuable to any contender:

1. He is a high level perimeter defender versatile enough to guard 1-3.

2. Even when he is missing, he is a shooter on the scouting report. Opposing teams must account for him, and that creates more space for LeBron and AD

The Lakers had nobody on their roster that could play that that role even close to as well as Green. The space he creates is valuable even when the shots don’t fall.

calling Danny Green a "high level perimeter defender" at this point in his career is some serious fucking hyperbole. FFS.