Series Thread: 1st Round: 2) Nuggets vs 7) Lakers

[trojanfan12]

Continue to gloss over the fact Ham stands there like he is Phil fucking Jackson when teams rally and he doesn't call a damn timeout.

That is inexcusable for a HC.

lol

That's not even worth addressing.

 

[wildturkey]

lol


It's not about that.

When the Lakers aren't performing up to expectations, too many Lakers fans just default to "fire the coach" which is lazy.

I'm not even saying that Ham shouldn't be fired, but unless there is someone better, you stay with him. Even if folks are mostly happy with the direction of the team, if you can get someone better, you do it. For example, there was nothing wrong with the job Del Harris was doing, but
Phil was available.

People want to complain about Hams rotations, but don't want to acknowledge the injuries to important rotational players that led to most of them. Lakers fans bitched about his "rotations when he benched D-Lo and Reaves who were playing like hammered owl shit, then didn't give him credit when it worked and both played better after the benching.

Mecca says she believes that Ty Lue is done and will be available...that is a coach you fire Ham for.

Some Lakers fans claimed that Handy is better...how would they know? He's never been an HC either.

There was a story around January/Feb that quoted 6 different team sources (ie players) that basically said Ham has no clue what he's doing and had lost the team. It's not just fans being lazy saying the coach should be fired

 

[tlance]

You also said you weren't sure he needed to be fired.

When did I say that?

Not sure what the context was of the specific comment you are referencing but I know that my overall message has always been that Ham needs to go.

And I have made that pretty clear I think.

 

[tlance]

Just an outsider opinion but I think people are way too quick to dismiss other influences in this particular case. If Lebron doesn’t want you then you aren’t there. Not even saying that is bad, he gets that at this point in his career. In the end it’s up to the players for pretty much all of it in my opinion. If you need a coach to be motivated at this level the front office made a huge mistake with you.

But see?

That is the problem.

This is a roster built around LeBron James.

Darvin Ham was a rookie coach. Yes, he had an extensive resume as an assistant, but the Lakers needed to hire somebody with more of a name brand who LeBron would have to respect.

This was always the wrong situation for Ham to get his first head coaching job.

And now it might be his last.

 

[shopson67]

lol


It's not about that.

When the Lakers aren't performing up to expectations, too many Lakers fans just default to "fire the coach" which is lazy.

I'm not even saying that Ham shouldn't be fired, but unless there is someone better, you stay with him. Even if folks are mostly happy with the direction of the team, if you can get someone better, you do it. For example, there was nothing wrong with the job Del Harris was doing, but
Phil was available.

People want to complain about Hams rotations, but don't want to acknowledge the injuries to important rotational players that led to most of them. Lakers fans bitched about his "rotations when he benched D-Lo and Reaves who were playing like hammered owl shit, then didn't give him credit when it worked and both played better after the benching.

Mecca says she believes that Ty Lue is done and will be available...that is a coach you fire Ham for.

Some Lakers fans claimed that Handy is better...how would they know? He's never been an HC either.

Ham was taking shots at his players after the loss (what do you do when your starter shits the bed for 10 games straight). He's definitely gone and he knows it.

Lue is an easy call. If Lebron is staying as we all expect, I would like to see Rondo at least get an assistant job. I suppose Lebron would also open up the possibility of Redick being interviewed. I liked Casell for the role when Ham got it.

Jeanie needs to stop leaning towards people with past Lakers ties. That shouldn't be a requirement. If they do have them, OK, that's nice.

 

[shopson67]

But see?

That is the problem.

This is a roster built around LeBron James.

Darvin Ham was a rookie coach. Yes, he had an extensive resume as an assistant, but the Lakers needed to hire somebody with more of a name brand who LeBron would have to respect.

This was always the wrong situation for Ham to get his first head coaching job.

And now it might be his last.

He did OK his rookie year, at least until the Denver series. However, he seemed to get worse as he got comfortable (and yes, injuries did deplete the roster of key rotational/role players).

 

[shopson67]

He has also said that he doesn't know if he needs to be fired.

Darvin Ham was also one of the most respected coaches in the league.

One of the complaints from Lakers fans, almost from the day he was hired, was that he lacked HC experience and the Lakers needed a coach that wasn't "learning on the job". Well, if you hire another HC with no HC experience...guess what you're getting? A guy learning on the job.

Just because he's been with the Lakers doesn't mean Handy will be a good HC. It just means he's someone the players are used to.

If they want to fire Ham...fine. But they need to replace him with an established, respected HC and it doesn't look like there are going to be many available.

It's just 1 seat over from top assistant to HC...but there's a canyon between those seats.

There are rumors that Vogel might get canned by the Suns and if the Bucks don't advance very far, maybe they fire Doc.

You want either one of them? Would either of them want to come to the Lakers?

Since Phil retired, the Lakers have had 6 different HC's, That's a new HC almost every 2 years. Luke Walton lasted the longest.

You get no consistency changing coaches every 2 years and coaches with choices are unlikely to sign up for that.

Hell no to Doc, and the injuries in this first round probably give him a free pass for now (plus he's owed a LOT of money).

I didn't really have a problem with Vogel as much as others did. However, they would need an empowered assistant for offense, as that is a weakness of his (and part of his issues with Durant and the Suns).

Hell, just someone who better used timeouts to stem opposing rallies would be an improvement right now. Also not a fan of how Christie was glued to the bench in favor of Dinwiddie, even when he was as cold as can be. Not a fireable offense, but could very well cost the Lakers opportunity to keep Christie this summer. Another restricted early Bird free agent (thanks Pelinka).

 

[fightinfunbags]

Hell no to Doc, and the injuries in this first round probably give him a free pass for now (plus he's owed a LOT of money).

I didn't really have a problem with Vogel as much as others did. However, they would need an empowered assistant for offense, as that is a weakness of his (and part of his issues with Durant and the Suns).

Hell, just someone who better used timeouts to stem opposing rallies would be an improvement right now. Also not a fan of how Christie was glued to the bench in favor of Dinwiddie, even when he was as cold as can be. Not a fireable offense, but could very well cost the Lakers opportunity to keep Christie this summer. Another restricted early Bird free agent (thanks Pelinka).

I’ve seen a lot of criticism on not taking a time out during a run. I think that’s just a philosophy thing more so than a no brainer. Some coaches prefer their team to play their way out of a run. If I’m that guy and I have LeBron James, I’m more likely to let that time out chance go for a little bit and I only use it when I must.

 

[trojanfan12]

I’ve seen a lot of criticism on not taking a time out during a run. I think that’s just a philosophy thing more so than a no brainer. Some coaches prefer their team to play their way out of a run. If I’m that guy and I have LeBron James, I’m more likely to let that time out chance go for a little bit and I only use it when I must.

That's been my point as well. If you have a young team, you use your timeouts a lot sooner. When you have a veteran team, especially one with Lebron's basketball i.q. you let them figure it out.

 

[shopson67]

That's been my point as well. If you have a young team, you use your timeouts a lot sooner. When you have a veteran team, especially one with Lebron's basketball i.q. you let them figure it out.

That philosophy hasn't worked this year, particularly against the Nuggets.

 

[trojanfan12]

That philosophy hasn't worked this year, particularly against the Nuggets.

In the playoffs at least, he used his timeouts more, especially in Denver.

And lol @didn't work...timeouts aren't why they lost to the Nuggets.

You're likely going to get what you want, no need to grasp at straws.

As I've said, if they fire Ham, they need to hire a seasoned HC and stick with him.

This changing coaches every 2 years, as they have with the last 6 coaches, isn't working.

But considering the coaching carousel and Lakers fans crying to fire the coach every time the team struggles...I'm not sure a coach with choices would want the job.

 

[shopson67]

In the playoffs at least, he used his timeouts more, especially in Denver.

And lol @didn't work...timeouts aren't why they lost to the Nuggets.

You're likely going to get what you want, no need to grasp at straws.

As I've said, if they fire Ham, they need to hire a seasoned HC and stick with him.

This changing coaches every 2 years, as they have with the last 6 coaches, isn't working.

But considering the coaching carousel and Lakers fans crying to fire the coach every time the team struggles...I'm not sure a coach with choices would want the job.

There are multiple reasons whey they lost to the Nuggets (rebounding/2nd chance points being a big one). There are plenty of complaints to make about Ham, no need to regurgitate them all here. I get that continuity is desired (I argued for that re: roster turnover in recent years), but continuity with Ham isn't going to help anything. Cut the cord and start fresh.

Seasoned vs rookie doesn't matter as much to me. Seasoned in most cases means retread, someone who was recently fired. Lue and Vogel would be better options, but I doubt Vogel would want a return with that bridge burned. Lue? Sure, if he's available, but the last year of his contract (24/25) is guaranteed. Are the Clips really going to dump him?

 

[trojanfan12]

There are multiple reasons whey they lost to the Nuggets (rebounding/2nd chance points being a big one). There are plenty of complaints to make about Ham, no need to regurgitate them all here. I get that continuity is desired (I argued for that re: roster turnover in recent years), but continuity with Ham isn't going to help anything. Cut the cord and start fresh.

Seasoned vs rookie doesn't matter as much to me. Seasoned in most cases means retread, someone who was recently fired. Lue and Vogel would be better options, but I doubt Vogel would want a return with that bridge burned. Lue? Sure, if he's available, but the last year of his contract (24/25) is guaranteed. Are the Clips really going to dump him?

And even if Lue is available, why would he want the job considering it was thought to be his job once before and then the Lakers changed course on him at the last minute...why would he want it?

So basically, you want them to do the same shit they've done the last 6 times because it's worked so well.

 

[shopson67]

And even if Lue is available, why would he want the job considering it was thought to be his job once before and then the Lakers changed course on him at the last minute...why would he want it?

So basically, you want them to do the same shit they've done the last 6 times because it's worked so well.

And you would have them do....? Stick with dead weight? Conjure the perfect candidate out of thin air?

If Lue is fired, his feelings about that interaction might change. Again, I don't really see the Clips firing him anyway.

 

[trojanfan12]

And you would have them do....? Stick with dead weight? Conjure the perfect candidate out of thin air?

If Lue is fired, his feelings about that interaction might change. Again, I don't really see the Clips firing him anyway.

Sooner or later they're going to have to commit to a coach despite fans crying. This changing coaches and therefore systems every year needs to stop.

Hoping that a coach who was disrespected by the organization will quit or get fired by his current team and change his mind re: the Lakers sure sounds like a helluva great plan...let's roll with that. lol

 

[shopson67]

Sooner or later they're going to have to commit to a coach despite fans crying. This changing coaches and therefore systems every year needs to stop.

Hoping that a coach who was disrespected by the organization will quit or get fired by his current team and change his mind re: the Lakers sure sounds like a helluva great plan...let's roll with that. lol

Again, not my plan as I don't see him being available. Your darts are missing the board.

 

[trojanfan12]

Again, not my plan as I don't see him being available. Your darts are missing the board.

So then, you want Ham fired but have no suggestions as to whom it should be that is likely to be available.

 

[thunderc]

Larry brown is 83. How awesome would that be?

 

[SpringStein]

This changing coaches every 2 years, as they have with the last 6 coaches, isn't working.

But considering the coaching carousel and Lakers fans crying to fire the coach every time the team struggles...I'm not sure a coach with choices would want the job.

My apologies for interrupting the Lakers forum, , but this seems to me to be right on. On the Nuggets board I frequent, I can’t describe the loathing of Malone and desire by a lot of Nuggets fans to can him over the years. The #1 issue was his in game decisions. But the one thing I always believed in was his ability to set a culture.

Now the Lakers with LBJ and AD are a different animal than the Nuggets had 5-6 years ago when they were a developing team, but, changing coaches like your underwear isn’t going to be THE answer - at least IMO.

 

[msgkings322]

Larry brown is 83. How awesome would that be?

Hubie Brown is 90, even better!