Eagles may try and trade for David Johnson

[wood20ks]

There is a magic potion... it’s called drafting well. What do you recommend? Cutting a star franchise young QB?

Yes because we all know drafting well is so easy

Even when you do well in a draft you're lucky to get one impact player the first year and a couple others that may mature in the future. Olinemen which includes centers take 2-3 years to gel just as an example.

So your strategy is continue to gamble with your franchise?

No what I expect is for my so called GM (Cap genius) to not put my franchise in cap hell.

Many of us told you to enjoy your SB. The end was closer then you could think. We're all watching what we predicted. The almost MVP is struggling trying to find wins. The team has attitude problems. Your coach is a bozo. And the mortgage for that SB is coming due next season.

I do attend to agree with him...……….as some are writing off the Eagles and Wentz,theres still plenty of football left to be played and are in a division where theres no clear cut team to win it...……
Wentz has proven to be a very good qb and I tend to think Phi will lock him up with a big contract cause qbs are hard to come by...……...I know all too well...……..Ive been waiting for the next Sid Luckman to come along(never seen him play btw,Im not that old)...……………...Damn that's a lot of years ago.(other than McMahon,theres not a qb of Chicago Ive been a huge fan of)………

Trubisky………..

 

[jarntt]

I’m guessing Wentz gets $200,000,000

I'd say that is the neighborhood you are looking at

 

[jarntt]

As of right now the Eagles will be 20M over the cap next season.
My question is how do they get under the cap and still field a team?

Like all teams they will very easily get under the cap by cutting a few players and perhaps restructuring contracts (this one is more dangerous if they go this route - better to just rip the bandaid off). The argument on this board about the topic is futile because neither side even reads what the other side is saying. It's all semantics and how you define "Cap Hell". Yes, Philly is in "Cap Hell" because they will need to cut (or not sign their own FA) players that they would otherwise want to keep and won't be able to bring in any high priced FAs. That is exactly what cap Hell is to me. Showing the Math of how you will get under the cap doesn't change that fact. In the NFL where you can roll over your cap savings to help in future years I feel they should have started working towards that future cap problem now but they went out and got a bunch of vets to try for another SB run at the expense of future years. If they win a SB it will be worth it but I felt they had a shot w/o those vets and that those were poor decisions.

HOWEVER, they absolutely will get under the cap with just a few moves and they have a lot of talent and even after letting guys go they will still likely be a contender. The fact that they will have a cap problem when they give their QB $30M per year is actually a good thing because nothing is more important than a good QB. That's just the price you pay for a good QB today and that isn't a knock on their cap management skills, it's just Math. Peters will be gone by then and some other guys that hurt (Graham?) but they will still have some very good and thus expensive players like Cox and maybe a couple other OL, Ertz and some others. The balancing act is getting the right combo of expensive vets and draft picks/role players to keep yourself going. So while the cap will be a problem when Wentz gets his, it doesn't necessarily mean they aren't also doing a great job to keep the problem minimized. Once you start restructuring and pushing money into outer years like Dallas did you kind of screw yourself and it takes years to recover (just look at the dearth of higher end FA signings by Dallas the last bunch of years). So far they really haven't done much kicking the can down the road. I know they restructured Cox, but I don't know the details of that. Drafting well will absolutely be the key.

 

[fordman84]

I don't know if that was meant as sarcastic or not but while I may not say they are the best they are clearly one of the best at managing the cap. They always have been.

It's easy to manage the cap when you never have anyone worth resigning.

 

[fordman84]

Like all teams they will very easily get under the cap by cutting a few players and perhaps restructuring contracts (this one is more dangerous if they go this route - better to just rip the bandaid off). The argument on this board about the topic is futile because neither side even reads what the other side is saying. It's all semantics and how you define "Cap Hell". Yes, Philly is in "Cap Hell" because they will need to cut (or not sign their own FA) players that they would otherwise want to keep and won't be able to bring in any high priced FAs. That is exactly what cap Hell is to me. Showing the Math of how you will get under the cap doesn't change that fact. In the NFL where you can roll over your cap savings to help in future years I feel they should have started working towards that future cap problem now but they went out and got a bunch of vets to try for another SB run at the expense of future years. If they win a SB it will be worth it but I felt they had a shot w/o those vets and that those were poor decisions.

HOWEVER, they absolutely will get under the cap with just a few moves and they have a lot of talent and even after letting guys go they will still likely be a contender. The fact that they will have a cap problem when they give their QB $30M per year is actually a good thing because nothing is more important than a good QB. That's just the price you pay for a good QB today and that isn't a knock on their cap management skills, it's just Math. Peters will be gone by then and some other guys that hurt (Graham?) but they will still have some very good and thus expensive players like Cox and maybe a couple other OL, Ertz and some others. The balancing act is getting the right combo of expensive vets and draft picks/role players to keep yourself going. So while the cap will be a problem when Wentz gets his, it doesn't necessarily mean they aren't also doing a great job to keep the problem minimized. Once you start restructuring and pushing money into outer years like Dallas did you kind of screw yourself and it takes years to recover (just look at the dearth of higher end FA signings by Dallas the last bunch of years). So far they really haven't done much kicking the can down the road. I know they restructured Cox, but I don't know the details of that. Drafting well will absolutely be the key.

There is very little chance of true cap hell in the NFL. The Eagles have issues with their cap space though, they already hit it this past offseason. They entered this past offseason with the least amount of 2018 cap space. Their solution appears to be what Dallas used to do, which was kick the can down the road by converting everyone to signing bonuses. That works great as long as you are winning it all, but when you are robbing Peter to pay Paul for nothing you have issues. Dallas fans can tell you.

Sure they can do things like cut Foles (maybe resign him for less), Graham, Peters. But they are going to have to replace those guys with someone. Lane has already been reworked once, so you will be paying a long time for a guy that is just average if he isn't juicing. Get rid of peters and that's no good for the OL. Now the Eagle bloggers are talking about giving up picks for an expensive RB? Eagles need key pieces at OL, WR, RB. On the other side of the ball if you lose Graham or Cox you need DL help. LB is serviceable, but need secondary help BIG time.

So to recap they appear set at starting QB and TE. Good thing they "screwed Dallas by drafting Dallas" instead of taking an OL like the Cowboys actually did. Now you look to have a solid backup TE. SCORE!

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

There is very little chance of true cap hell in the NFL. The Eagles have issues with their cap space though, they already hit it this past offseason. They entered this past offseason with the least amount of 2018 cap space. Their solution appears to be what Dallas used to do, which was kick the can down the road by converting everyone to signing bonuses. That works great as long as you are winning it all, but when you are robbing Peter to pay Paul for nothing you have issues. Dallas fans can tell you.

Sure they can do things like cut Foles (maybe resign him for less), Graham, Peters. But they are going to have to replace those guys with someone. Lane has already been reworked once, so you will be paying a long time for a guy that is just average if he isn't juicing. Get rid of peters and that's no good for the OL. Now the Eagle bloggers are talking about giving up picks for an expensive RB? Eagles need key pieces at OL, WR, RB. On the other side of the ball if you lose Graham or Cox you need DL help. LB is serviceable, but need secondary help BIG time.

So to recap they appear set at starting QB and TE. Good thing they "screwed Dallas by drafting Dallas" instead of taking an OL like the Cowboys actually did. Now you look to have a solid backup TE. SCORE!

I was ok with this except the Lane Johnson part. First of all he never juiced and he was the best RT in football last year. All Pro and shut down everybody.
Goedert has the talent to be excellent too.
LBer is serviceable? I don’t think you know what you’re talking about.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I do attend to agree with him...……….as some are writing off the Eagles and Wentz,theres still plenty of football left to be played and are in a division where theres no clear cut team to win it...……
Wentz has proven to be a very good qb and I tend to think Phi will lock him up with a big contract cause qbs are hard to come by...……...I know all too well...……..Ive been waiting for the next Sid Luckman to come along(never seen him play btw,Im not that old)...……………...Damn that's a lot of years ago.(other than McMahon,theres not a qb of Chicago Ive been a huge fan of)………

Trubisky………..

I haven't written them off totally for this season either. That division is a dumpster fire. I said shortly after the SB this was another Seattle like scenario. One more good year after the SB year. Then it goes down hill. They should keep Wentz but they are going to lose a lot of talent because of it and it's not going to be replaced in one or two drafts. They are fuckered.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Like all teams they will very easily get under the cap by cutting a few players and perhaps restructuring contracts (this one is more dangerous if they go this route - better to just rip the bandaid off). The argument on this board about the topic is futile because neither side even reads what the other side is saying. It's all semantics and how you define "Cap Hell". Yes, Philly is in "Cap Hell" because they will need to cut (or not sign their own FA) players that they would otherwise want to keep and won't be able to bring in any high priced FAs. That is exactly what cap Hell is to me. Showing the Math of how you will get under the cap doesn't change that fact. In the NFL where you can roll over your cap savings to help in future years I feel they should have started working towards that future cap problem now but they went out and got a bunch of vets to try for another SB run at the expense of future years. If they win a SB it will be worth it but I felt they had a shot w/o those vets and that those were poor decisions.

HOWEVER, they absolutely will get under the cap with just a few moves and they have a lot of talent and even after letting guys go they will still likely be a contender. The fact that they will have a cap problem when they give their QB $30M per year is actually a good thing because nothing is more important than a good QB. That's just the price you pay for a good QB today and that isn't a knock on their cap management skills, it's just Math. Peters will be gone by then and some other guys that hurt (Graham?) but they will still have some very good and thus expensive players like Cox and maybe a couple other OL, Ertz and some others. The balancing act is getting the right combo of expensive vets and draft picks/role players to keep yourself going. So while the cap will be a problem when Wentz gets his, it doesn't necessarily mean they aren't also doing a great job to keep the problem minimized. Once you start restructuring and pushing money into outer years like Dallas did you kind of screw yourself and it takes years to recover (just look at the dearth of higher end FA signings by Dallas the last bunch of years). So far they really haven't done much kicking the can down the road. I know they restructured Cox, but I don't know the details of that. Drafting well will absolutely be the key.

Said much more eloquently than I could've. But the exact same shit

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Wentz is under contract through 2019, and the Eagles hold a fifth-year option that would pay him close to $30 million, which will be the average of the top 10 highest-paid QBs in the league.


With this, how many key players are cut. The Eagles are at the cap ceiling without THE BIG QB Contract. The Eagles aren't special in cap management, it's just that they aren't paying the highest paid position real money yet. That bill collector it walking up the steps now.

So all the articles written about our GM and his cap management skills were all lies right. Every Eagle fan said the same thing but it’s weird... I don’t see other fans talking about this one topic. The Eagles have been around longer then Wentz’s two years and 5 games. It’s bizarre you fight common knowledge

 

[eaglesnut]

This board is incredibly uneducated. The cap is meaningless.
Read.
Study.
Learn.

How is it possible for fans to exist in 2018 that don't actually understand this.

Furthermore, by not already understanding this elementary concept, you've outed yourselves as not capable of learning it and not worth teaching it to.

Carry on. I just stopped in because, from a glance at the title, it looked like this thread was about one of my favorite RBs to ever be in the NFL Draft, David Johnson.

 

[UK Cowboy]

This board is incredibly uneducated. The cap is meaningless.
Read.
Study.
Learn.

How is it possible for fans to exist in 2018 that don't actually understand this.

Furthermore, by not already understanding this elementary concept, you've outed yourselves as not capable of learning it and not worth teaching it to.

Carry on. I just stopped in because, from a glance at the title, it looked like this thread was about one of my favorite RBs to ever be in the NFL Draft, David Johnson.

I agree with you on the cap. If a team wants to spend money, they can rework deals, convert bonuses and extend players for a decade before really having to bite the bullet, and if teams don't want to spend, they simply say they have no cap space.

 

[fordman84]

I was ok with this except the Lane Johnson part. First of all he never juiced and he was the best RT in football last year. All Pro and shut down everybody.
Goedert has the talent to be excellent too.
LBer is serviceable? I don’t think you know what you’re talking about.

Never juiced, just twice was busted taking banned PEDs. Since being back he grades as average, while before each suspension he graded well above average.
As for Goedert, doesn't matter if he is serviceable. You reached for a TE when you already had a great one at the expense of OL.

 

[fordman84]

So all the articles written about our GM and his cap management skills were all lies right. Every Eagle fan said the same thing but it’s weird... I don’t see other fans talking about this one topic. The Eagles have been around longer then Wentz’s two years and 5 games. It’s bizarre you fight common knowledge

Honestly, who cares what local writers say? They want to keep getting access to the Eagles so they sugar coat things.

You are currently over the cap for next year. You are already converting players contracts. All you have left is to cut high priced guys next year but those are also your most productive guys. So you will need to replace them, will do so with lesser talent, and won't be using the money saved to replace them but instead shifting it to paying other guys already on your roster.


All that to say that the point of this thread is about making a trade for an expensive vet, which is something that would be stupid to do. If your GM does it and any of you continue to say he is a "cap wizard" you should just stop pretending to be anything but a know nothing homer. Bringing in a high price player on more than a "rest of year rental" while also giving up draft picks (which could be the cheap replacement for the guys you already will have to ditch next year) is stupid.

 

[PhillyGreen]

It's easy to manage the cap when you never have anyone worth resigning.

Superbowl Champs......enough said.


The Eagles are one of the best at managing the cap. They are one of the best at identifying key players they want to keep and paying them market value. To put in perspective how good the Eagles front office is you only have to look as far back as the Chip Kelly era. I though that fool set the team back at least a decade by the decisions he made The Eagles made some very poor decisions in player signings and were in some serious cap hell but Roseman managed to get them out of that and the Eagles won the Superbowl a few years later.

The Eagles will not have any problem getting under and staying under the cap. There are some hard decisions the Eagles are going to have to make but that is part of the game. If they released Foles, Jernigan, Bennett, Peters and Long they save $47 mil in cap space and they are currently projected to be $5 mil over before any changes. That does not mean that it will not be easy but they manage it quite well.

Carson Wentz is going to get more guaranteed money than Kirk Cousins got. That is a no brainer. How are they going ot manage that. Well for one I am pretty sure it will be at least a 5 year deal. Kirk Cousins deal is 3 years and fully guaranteed with a cap hit of about $26, $28 and $30 mill respectively. The Eagles are already projected to be $35 mil under the cap when Wentz option year hits but that will never happen. He will get a new deal before his option year. Will Wentz get a $200 mil contract? I doubt that....not at 5 years. If he gets close to that I am sure an option year will be included or a final year salary at some obscene base salary of something like $50 mil which at the rate things are going probably will be the franchise tag for QB's 5-6 years down the road. The contract that Jimmy G got will probably be the starting point at negotiations but I think it is safe to assume that Wentz will get $100 mil guaranteed at least.

 

[fordman84]

This board is incredibly uneducated. The cap is meaningless.
Read.
Study.
Learn.

How is it possible for fans to exist in 2018 that don't actually understand this.

Furthermore, by not already understanding this elementary concept, you've outed yourselves as not capable of learning it and not worth teaching it to.

Carry on. I just stopped in because, from a glance at the title, it looked like this thread was about one of my favorite RBs to ever be in the NFL Draft, David Johnson.

Can't believe you talk about your fellow Eagle fans like that. But I agree. They all need to knock this "we have a smurt GM" because that GM has tied your hands for the next couple of years at least. You won't be able to go after FA's and you apparently are intent on trading your draft picks. DOH

 

[fordman84]

I wonder if the Seattle fans look at this crap the Eagles fans are spewing and reminisce back a few years.

 

[handicappers]

The Derp is strong with the homers

 

[Peter Gozintite]

lol @ the first page

 

[DutchBird]

I know they jsut redid fletchers contract, but weren't they already over next years number? By a lot.

Considerably, though IIRC a lot of it can be done away with with some restructuring or releasing a few players. Still, even then the cap would be tight.

 

[DutchBird]

With this, how many key players are cut. The Eagles are at the cap ceiling without THE BIG QB Contract. The Eagles aren't special in cap management, it's just that they aren't paying the highest paid position real money yet. That bill collector it walking up the steps now.

Under Banner and Roseman - so for the past 20 years or so - the Eagles have been among the very best at cap management in the NFL. One only has to look at how they got out from under the Chip Kelly wreckage (which was the result of only 1 year Chip Kelly management). They have not come close to the cap disaster that some franchises - like the Cowboys - have faced or are in now.

The big question is whether Roseman can keep this up, or how much talent he does have to let go. And yes, that will be a serious challenge. Based on his (and the organization's track record) he has as good a chance as any (and better than most) to pulling this of with reasonable success. And part of the equation is drafting well, and being smart in FA. Under the current regime, things seem to have been OK to good in that regard.