Eli Manning, the HOF, and my long standing Jim Plunkett comparisom

[Wamu]

Can we forget about Eli for moment & talk about Andy Dalton? Why aren't there more Red Headed Assassin threads @mrschaney?

 

[Rock Strongo]

Yeah but in '83 he completed 62.5% of his passes.

see my list of you know, rule changes that helped the offense, in 78.

and see all the 4k yard seasons and higher comp%'s

 

[Wamu]

see my list of you know, rule changes that helped the offense, in 78.

and see all the 4k yard seasons and higher comp%'s

Do you have the rule changes on audio? And while you're right I'm still not going back & reading all that stuff.

 

[Wazmankg]

it was the first year i looked at.

metrics are metrics. 32% of the league was "garbage" according to you in 1976.

you should see what the true average was for 76. you may feel shame.

As the bottom 32%, they were well below average because that's how averages work. I believe that's how I first characterized it. Anything < 50% was always considered bad, though.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Hey rock I'll be honest w/ you. I don't got time to read all that stuff because it doesn't involve Tommy Boy. And I need something to drink.

But in '83 Bradshaw went 1-0 & attempted 8 passes in a game.

put it this way...

before 1978 there was 1 4k yard season. namath.

after 1978, sans 82's strike, every single passing yardage leader was over 4k (george led with 3917 in 1997, the exception)

2 more games and offensive rule changes. everything changed from how guys could block on the line, to CB's having to give WR's space off the line (chuck rule).

its like trying to explain why scoring went up in the nba after the 3pt line was introduced.

it was because of the 3 pt line.

 

[Rock Strongo]

As the bottom 32%, they were well below average because that's how averages work. I believe that's how I first characterized it. Anything < 50% was always considered bad, though.

and bradshaw once won 11 games with 47%

the rules changed in 1978. a ton of them, all for the offense. thats where your catalyst was for comp% and yards.

 

[mrschaney]

Quote:

"there is more to playing the quarterback position than winning the random playoff game. String a few together and win the Super Bowl, then we can begin a discussion!"
Junith Abigail Chaney, Aug. 3, 2018

 

[Rock Strongo]

As the bottom 32%, they were well below average because that's how averages work. I believe that's how I first characterized it. Anything < 50% was always considered bad, though.

and do the bottom 32% have sub 50% completion rates now?

no, because the rules changed to help the offense even more than 78.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

all true (but the retarded part), but if you dont consider eras its kinda silly. 2/3 of his career was in the 70's, and he was blessed with a great offensive line in NE (thats sarcasm btw)

20+ INT seasons

Eli - 3 (lead the NFL 3 times)
plunkett - 2 (both with shit NE teams, never lead the NFL)

again, consider eras on both sides of the equation.

both guys have 2 rings as starters.

Sooo...Are you saying Eli should not get in, or Plunkett should be in...???

 

[mrschaney]

Can we forget about Eli for moment & talk about Andy Dalton? Why aren't there more Red Headed Assassin threads @mrschaney?

Guys, I know it is difficult not to mention Andy Dalton when discussing great quarterbacks, and the Hall of Fame and all, but please try to refrain from doing so as to not hijack the OP's thread. There are more than a few Andy threads currently active on this fine website where all things Andy are a go.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Sooo...Are you saying Eli should not get in, or Plunkett should be in...???

if its based on superbowls, which eli would be, he has 2. so does plunkett, in an era where QB's got their asses kicked and could be hit.

eli is the modern day plunkett. high pick, not great regular seasons, but won 2 rings as a starter.

only Eli led the nfl in a stat of these 2. INT's. 3 times.

 

[Wazmankg]

and bradshaw once won 11 games with 47%

the rules changed in 1978. a ton of them, all for the offense. thats where your catalyst was for comp% and yards.

I know all about the 78 rule changes. But Plunkett's numbers were bad compared to his peers throughout the 70s. That's why he was released. Bradshaw wouldn't be anywhere near the HOF without the rings, either.

 

[Wamu]

Guys, I know it is difficult not to mention Andy Dalton when discussing great quarterbacks, and the Hall of Fame and all, but please try to refrain from doing so as to not hijack the OP's thread. There are more than a few Andy threads currently active on this fine website where all things Andy are a go.

Is Dalton the only QB on your Mount Rushmore of all time QB's?

 

[Wazmankg]

The ginger ranking that puts Garcia ahead of Jurgensen is ridiculous too... fwiw.

 

[Wazmankg]

Sooo...Are you saying Eli should not get in, or Plunkett should be in...???

I don't think either should be in. QBs get way too much credit for wins & losses.

 

[Rock Strongo]

I know all about the 78 rule changes. But Plunkett's numbers were bad compared to his peers throughout the 70s. That's why he was released. Bradshaw wouldn't be anywhere near the HOF without the rings, either.

he was released because he got killed behind the NE line and had NO receivers. he had no time.

from his rookie year til 77, pats and niners, he was 49.3%

the league average was 53.6% over that span, or 4.3% off the mean.

he was 4.3% worse than average.

bradshaw was also considered the toughest QB of his era. he was also 107-51 as a starter. of course hes in there primarily for his rings, but not that alone.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

I still wonder why Joe Namath is in. 1 super bowl win, 173 td's to 220 ints.

NY Media...

 

[Wamu]

if its based on superbowls, which eli would be, he has 2. so does plunkett, in an era where QB's got their asses kicked and could be hit.

eli is the modern day plunkett. high pick, not great regular seasons, but won 2 rings as a starter.

only Eli led the nfl in a stat of these 2. INT's. 3 times.

Favre led the league in int's 3x & threw 20 or more int's 6x.
Foust threw 20 or more int's 5x
Steve Grogan threw 20 or more int's 5 straight seasons

 

[Rock Strongo]

Favre led the league in int's 3x & threw 20 or more int's 6x.
Foust threw 20 or more int's 5x
Steve Grogan threw 20 or more int's 5 straight seasons

favre has like 71k yards, a 62% comp, and 508 TD's. eli doesnt.
fouts never led the league in INT's. he retired as the greatest passer in nfl history, in terms of yards.
grogan was a LBer playing QB, on atrocious teams, with no WR help. he DID hold the record for most rushing TD's in a season by a QB, for like 35 years, until newton broke it. he also never led the league in INT's, but he DID in TD's once. he wa also never ever in a HOF discussion outside of foxboro. favre, eli, and fouts all are/were.

 

[Wamu]

favre has like 71k yards, a 62% comp, and 508 TD's. eli doesnt.
fouts never led the league in INT's. he retired as the greatest passer in nfl history, in terms of yards.
grogan was a LBer playing QB, on atrocious teams, with no WR help. he DID hold the record for most rushing TD's in a season by a QB, for like 35 years, until newton broke it. he also never led the league in INT's, but he DID in TD's once.

I think you're taking this way too seriously. But let's be honest here. Eli will get in the HOF because he was 2-0 in the SB. Who did he beat again?