Eli Manning, the HOF, and my long standing Jim Plunkett comparisom

[Rex Racer]

Which one, Tyree or Manningham?

Yes.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

It cheapens the HoF if it's just a participation trophy. If that's the bar then Foles is a shoe in.

When the time comes it will certainly give the talking heads and fans something to talk about.

 

[Rex Racer]

I don't see how a guy who wasn't even close to the best QB in his own era could possibly make it in.

There is not one season in Eli's career that he was considered the best QB of that year. I doubt he was considered a top 3 QB in any one year of his moribund career.

 

[Judge Fudge]

I think he gets in but much much later (30 years)

 

[Wazmankg]

If it was up to me Eli wouldn't get in the HOF without a ticket, though he'll probably be inducted eventually. But his resume is better than Plunkett's who never made a pro bowl or threw for > 3000 yards.

 

[megalodon30]

Eli Manning is a terrible QB and has been his whole career, and no one can convince me otherwise.

And most certainly is not deserving of the HOF.

 

[Rock Strongo]

If it was up to me Eli wouldn't get in the HOF without a ticket, though he'll probably be inducted eventually. But his resume is better than Plunkett's who never made a pro bowl or threw for > 3000 yards.

who threw for over 3000 yards in the 70's?

they also played a 14 games schedule, FYI. in 83 plunkett missed 3k by like 65 yards. that same year dan marino threw for 2200 yards in 9 games, 20 TD's.

300 yards was like 5k now. his successful years he was behind a lot of other good QB's in the AFC.

 

[Wazmankg]

who threw for over 3000 yards in the 70's?

they also played a 14 games schedule, FYI. in 83 plunkett missed 3k by like 65 yards. that same year dan marino threw for 2200 yards in 9 games, 20 TD's.

300 yards was like 5k now. his successful years he was behind a lot of other good QB's in the AFC.

Half of his career was after they went to 16 games and changed the rules to help the passing game in 78. He had a sub-50% completion rate for his career at that point. 30 more picks than TDs lifetime. He never cracked the top 10 in passer rating for a season. Aside from 83, he was significantly below average by pretty much every statistical measure.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Half of his career was after they went to 16 games and changed the rules to help the passing game in 78. He had a sub-50% completion rate for his career at that point. 30 more picks than TDs lifetime. He never cracked the top 10 in passer rating for a season. Aside from 83, he was significantly below average by pretty much every statistical measure.

yes, because...get this...drum roll please...

it was the 70's!

example?

1974, ken anderson led the nfl in passing yards with 2,667 w/ a 51% completion. (plunkett had 2,457...or get this...2nd...and had a 49% comp rate)

1977 joe furgeson led the nfl in passing yards with 2,803.

npt one guy in the 1970's threw for 4k. namath was the first in 67. it took 12 years until fouts did it in 83, with 16 games.

from 70-78 only 3 guys topped 3k yards to lead the league.

plunkett played 7 years of a 14 games schedule, and he only started double digits games in the 80's twice. he was essentially done by 83, but had 2 rings as a starter. he never attempted more than 379 throws in a season (83). lynn dickey had 484 that year, FWIW.

you simply cannot compare 14 game schedulkes of the 70's to 16 game schedules from 78 on. adding those 2 games changed how teams operated offensively a lot too.

 

[Carnzo]

I vividly remember Plunket getting destroyed with the line he had in front of him here in NE.
Amazing he got out of here alive. Sacked 97 times. Poor bastard.

 

[Wazmankg]

yes, because...get this...drum roll please...

it was the 70's!

example?

1974, ken anderson led the nfl in passing yards with 2,667 w/ a 51% completion. (plunkett had 2,457...or get this...2nd...and had a 49% comp rate)

1977 joe furgeson led the nfl in passing yards with 2,803.

npt one guy in the 1970's threw for 4k. namath was the first in 67. it took 12 years until fouts did it in 83, with 16 games.

from 70-78 only 3 guys topped 3k yards to lead the league.

plunkett played 7 years of a 14 games schedule, and he only started double digits games in the 80's twice. he was essentially done by 83, but had 2 rings as a starter. he never attempted more than 379 throws in a season (83). lynn dickey had 484 that year, FWIW.

you simply cannot compare 14 game schedulkes of the 70's to 16 game schedules from 78 on. adding those 2 games changed how teams operated offensively a lot too.

He was still below average in "It was the 70s !" compared to his peers by virtually every statistical measure. I'm not sure where you got that 51% completion rate for Anderson in 74. He led the league with a 65% completion rate in 74. 50% completion rate was considered dogshit even in the 70s, which is what Plunkett averaged back then.

 

[Ricky Roma]

The E. Manning/J. Plunkett is as good a comparison as there is. Both highly touted, first overall guys who were average players that won 2 SB's. The only real difference is that one guy's stats are significantly less than the others given the respective eras, and that one guy was hurt more/missed more time - again...due in part because of the era.

Manning is a career sub 60% thrower in an era where that is bad.....Plunkett was in a similar place, again...given the relative era.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Eli Manning is a terrible QB and has been his whole career, and no one can convince me otherwise.

And most certainly is not deserving of the HOF.

This somehow fails to square with your Tebowner.

 

[Rock Strongo]

He was still below average in "It was the 70s !" compared to his peers by virtually every statistical measure. I'm not sure where you got that 51% completion rate for Anderson in 74. He led the league with a 65% completion rate in 74. 50% completion rate was considered dogshit even in the 70s, which is what Plunkett averaged back then.

but i JUST compared him to his peers by era.

and yeah, i was toggling too much. wrong comp% for anderson. yards remain tho.

ferguson led the NFL in 77 with 2803 yards with a 48% comp, and led with 457 attempts. 457! for 2800?

i also think your "50% in the 70's was dogshit". only the upper tier surpassed 59%.

you should look.

 

[Ricky Roma]

50% completion rate was considered dogshit even in the 70s, which is what Plunkett averaged back then.

Considered around average actually.

 

[megalodon30]

This somehow fails to square with your Tebowner.

Tebow started one, non-full season in the NFL and made the playoffs. Eli has played 14 NFL seasons and has made the playoffs merely 6 times.

Tebow > Eli

 

[SU Nittany Tide]

Undefeated against Brady when it matters.

If Eli doesn't get in then Tom wasn't the greatest.

Pretty simple.

Dumb argument. The first super bowl they won the patriots gave up less points than their average for the season. However, the scored far less than their average during the season. In other words, their defense was better than they were against their average opponent, but their offense was far worse. What does that mean? The defense won that super bowl.

Add that to the fact that his career passer rating is garbage compared to others in this generation and you'll see that he was a pretty average QB that was a part of a couple great runs. The HOF is an individual achievement and Eli is not individually a great player.

 

[mrschaney]

I still wonder why Joe Namath is in. 1 super bowl win, 173 td's to 220 ints.

 

[Wazmankg]

Considered around average actually.

No, it wasn't.. not for a starting QB that planned on keeping his job.

 

[SU Nittany Tide]

We're gonna get like 5. QBs are better now. Eli has thrown a ton of touchdowns.

That may be true, but Eli wasn't one of the five best QB's of his generation.