Now that all are in place, who are your top 10 coaches?

[Across The Field]

And yet Harbaugh was never able to win the Pac12 despite even better circumstances.

I can't tell if this is for real or not. He took over Stanford when they were a 1-11 team. Did you know that? The 12-1 record he compiled in 2010 (his final year) is better than any record Shaw has had.

 

[kburjr]

I can't tell if this is for real or not. He took over Stanford when they were a 1-11 team. Did you know that? The 12-1 record he compiled in 2010 (his final year) is better than any record Shaw has had.

Although I am neutral in this argument, I find it quite disconcerting to see you pimping Harbaugh so much. An tOSU fan defending anything about Michigan is a sure sign of the Apocalypse.

 

[socaljim242]

I've never once said Shaw is a bad coach. I'm saying he's not a great coach. He's not done as good a job as Dantonio has done at MSU.

Clearly the whole "Stanford academics" doesn't keep them from getting high-end kids anymore. In the last 5 years, he's brought in 6 kids rated 5* and tons of other 4* prospects. Why? Because Harbaugh built the program up for him, and so not only was he handed a program ready to excel, but he has the best academics in the P5 by a large margin. The college is right on the Pacific Ocean, right down the road from San Francisco, which is a HUGE draw for young kids who care about academics.

Meanwhile Dantonio built up Michigan State BY HIMSELF. They were a middle of the road team, at best. They had no real history of winning (again - two 10+ win seasons ever before him). They had 26 wins in the 5 years before he got there. He had 9 wins by year 2, and 11 wins by year 4. They are routinely a top 15 team, and field one of the top defenses in the nation almost every year. Nothing was built for him, and he really has nothing to offer recruits other than himself.

Overall - What Shaw has done simply isn't as impressive.

Per Rivals Stanford
2007- 0 5* recruits
2008- 0 5* recruits
2009- 0 5* recruits
2010- 0 5* recruits

But Harbaugh taught Shaw how to recruit 5* players to Stanford. Yet he never did it himself. He taught Shaw how to coach and yet never got a team anywhere in college to where Shaw has with his own recruits (3#) Stanford has never been a HUGE draw for football players. To even think that shows you don't have a clue. People don't think Bay area football they never have and the couple years of success Harbaugh had was when players today were like ten years old. People think Duke basketball , Alabama football, Boise State football, USC football, UCLA basketball, Ohio State football. Stanford ,most people think academics .

 

[Across The Field]

Although I am neutral in this argument, I find it quite disconcerting to see you pimping Harbaugh so much. An tOSU fan defending anything about Michigan is a sure sign of the Apocalypse.

I am not happy about it, but I think it's fair to at least acknowledge the guy's prior accomplishments. It's a lot easier to do when you've beaten him each year he's been at michigan though

 

[Across The Field]

Per Rivals Stanford
2007- 0 5* recruits
2008- 0 5* recruits
2009- 0 5* recruits
2010- 0 5* recruits

But Harbaugh taught Shaw how to recruit 5* players to Stanford. Yet he never did it himself. He taught Shaw how to coach and yet never got a team anywhere in college to where Shaw has with his own recruits (3#) Stanford has never been a HUGE draw for football players. To even think that shows you don't have a clue. People don't think Bay area football they never have and the couple years of success Harbaugh had was when players today were like ten years old.

You've got to be kidding. First off, I never said "Harbaugh taught him how to bring in 5* kids only". I said he taught him how to recruit. 2007-2009, did you really think he was going to bring in any kids worth a shit? In the 3 prior seasons to those classes, Stanford won 1 game, 4 games, and 5 games. Gee, no shit he wasn't reeling in high-end classes yet. They were still progressing to where he got them to. In 2009, he won them 8 games and, wouldn't ya know it, in 2010 Four 4* recruits. Then in 2010, Stanford's best year to date from a record standpoint, it got better.

2011 (Harbaugh's last class) - Six 4* recruits, two top 100
2012 - Two 5*, Nine 4* recruits, seven top 100

This was made possible because of what Harbaugh did. Do you really think if Shaw took over in 2011 with Stanford coming off of a 1-11 season, that recruiting class would look like that? Do you really think he's bringing in two 5* kids in 2012 if not for all the work Harbaugh did for him? Do you think Harbaugh wasn't recruiting class of 2012 kids while he was still at Stanford?

Did you know Shaw worked under Harbaugh for 5 years before becoming a HC? He brought him along from USD to Stanford, and set him up with a team fresh off a #4 finish and gave him a fantastic foundation to build a program. Shaw didn't do that. Harbaugh did.

 

[ericd7633]

Yes, that 2015 team was all his. That's the only top 10 team he's had all by himself. Harbaugh handed him a top 5 team stocked with developed talent. 2011/2012, Shaw's first 2 years, were top 10 teams. 2013 was 11th. Then, in 2014 when the team was finally over half Shaw's kids, they dropped to 8-5. They rebounded in 2015 and have regressed for two straight years. I guess if you want to pump up a 5-loss team last season that finished with 1 ranked win, be my guest. It wasn't a good team. Bryce Love coming back might be the only thing keeping them above .500 in 2018. The rest of the offense is very uninspiring, and even their normally solid defense took a HUGE step back last year. If he regresses this year for a 3rd season in a row, are you going to sit there and tell me he's still a top 5 coach?

Who gives a shit about the fans. You said STANFORD could care less. I pointed out that you're flat out wrong. They're not the first top 25 team to have shit attendance.

This clearly isn't going anywhere as usual. I just don't understand why you're holding other coaches on your list to a different standard?

Shaw is absolutely a top 10 coach. If he has another 9/10 win season, I won't think any differently.

 

[socaljim242]

You've got to be kidding. First off, I never said "Harbaugh taught him how to bring in 5* kids only". I said he taught him how to recruit. 2007-2009, did you really think he was going to bring in any kids worth a shit? In the 3 prior seasons to those classes, Stanford won 1 game, 4 games, and 5 games. Gee, no shit he wasn't reeling in high-end classes yet. They were still progressing to where he got them to. In 2009, he won them 8 games and, wouldn't ya know it, in 2010 Four 4* recruits. Then in 2010, Stanford's best year to date from a record standpoint, it got better.

2011 (Harbaugh's last class) - Six 4* recruits, two top 100
2012 - Two 5*, Nine 4* recruits, seven top 100

This was made possible because of what Harbaugh did. Do you really think if Shaw took over in 2011 with Stanford coming off of a 1-11 season, that recruiting class would look like that? Do you really think he's bringing in two 5* kids in 2012 if not for all the work Harbaugh did for him? Do you think Harbaugh wasn't recruiting class of 2012 kids while he was still at Stanford?

Did you know Shaw worked under Harbaugh for 5 years before becoming a HC? He brought him along from USD to Stanford, and set him up with a team fresh off a #4 finish and gave him a fantastic foundation to build a program. Shaw didn't do that. Harbaugh did.

Let me get this straight Harbaugh has some magical powers that allows Shaw to recruit players to Stanford seven years after Harbaugh had one ten or more win season. But at Michigan a school known for football ,Harbuagh couldn't get one (zero , zilch, nada) 5* player in this years recruiting class and only seven 4* players. I would show you a list of schools with over ten 4* players but it would be just too ridiculously long. This is the guy you give credit for Shaw being able to recruit seven years removed? But the guy can't do it for Michigan? LOL.

 

[Across The Field]

This clearly isn't going anywhere as usual. I just don't understand why you're holding other coaches on your list to a different standard?

Shaw is absolutely a top 10 coach. If he has another 9/10 win season, I won't think any differently.

And that's fine. I have him as a fringe top 10 guy, more like top 15. Fact is, he just went 9-5 in the 5th best P5 conference. He had 1 ranked win and 5 losses. The year before he went 10-3 with 0 ranked wins and barely escaped a mediocre North Carolina team in his bowl. 2018 could very easily go the same way this past season did.

This has never about me thinking he's a bad coach, it's about him not being on the level of a Mark Dantonio for the numerous reasons I've laid out. After this past season, I'm putting Chryst ahead of him as well, and I think Wisconsin finishes with a better record in 2018.

 

[socaljim242]

This clearly isn't going anywhere as usual. I just don't understand why you're holding other coaches on your list to a different standard?

Shaw is absolutely a top 10 coach. If he has another 9/10 win season, I won't think any differently.

LOL. yeah, he's got Lincoln Riley at #10 after one season . But Shaw seven years later is still benefiting from the legend of Stanford football while Riley built Oklahoma from scratch in one year. No one ever heard of Oklahoma football and Riley recruited every player he used this past season. LOL

 

[Across The Field]

Let me get this straight Harbaugh has some magical powers that allows Shaw to recruit players to Stanford seven years after Harbaugh had one ten or more win season. But at Michigan a school known for football ,Harbuagh couldn't get one (zero , zilch, nada) 5* player in this years recruiting class and only seven 4* players. I would show you a list of schools with over ten 4* players but it would be just too ridiculously long. This is the guy you give credit for Shaw being able to recruit seven years removed? But the guy can't do it for Michigan? LOL.

Nope. I think Harbaugh taught him how to be a head coach. Harbaugh took an annual bottom-feeder and had them ranked #4 in his fourth and final season. The foundation was laid FOR Shaw. That's my point. Dantonio never had anything done for him, he built Michigan State up by himself.

And who says Harbaugh can't do it for michigan because of one down year? Are you just ignoring Harbaugh's 2017 class that was ranked 4th nationally? Or his 2016 class that was 8th? 2018's class was definitely down, and a lot of it is because Harbaugh's not having the success in the B1G he had in the Pac. Instead of having to deal with one good team in his division every year, now he's got three, with another major contender in the B1G West who has won 34 games in the last 3 years. It's a lot tougher winning in the B1G than it is in the Pac. 13 teams other than michigan have finished ranked over the past 3 years from the B1G. In that time, the Pac has had 7 other than Stanford.

 

[Across The Field]

LOL. yeah, he's got Lincoln Riley at #10 after one season . But Shaw seven years later is still benefiting from the legend of Stanford football while Riley built Oklahoma from scratch in one year. No one ever heard of Oklahoma football and Riley recruited every player he used this past season. LOL

It's about who I would rather have as my coach right now. What Riley did at OU in year 1 is more impressive than anything I've seen Shaw do. His win at OSU to start the year was miles ahead of any win Shaw has had.

 

[socaljim242]

It's about who I would rather have as my coach right now. What Riley did at OU in year 1 is more impressive than anything I've seen Shaw do. His win at OSU to start the year was miles ahead of any win Shaw has had.

But didn't someone teach him how to coach? Didn't he get a team wayyyy more talented than what Shaw was left and doesn't the previous coach get the credit for what his players did?

Shaw took his own players (four years of his recruits) and took them to #3 in the country beating a 12-1 Iowa team in the Rose Bowl. Riley took over a 12-2 #3 in the country team with a Heisman runner up and lost his last game with players the previous coach recruited and who he was under. But Shaw gets no credit. LOL .

 

[BigRedMoe]

1 Scott Frost
2 Scottieth McFrosters
3 Scotty MacFrosty
4 Scooter Friest
5 Scots Froester
6 Scorty McFrostface
... I'm Not Cretive Enough to Continue

 

[Across The Field]

But didn't someone teach him how to coach? Didn't he get a team wayyyy more talented than what Shaw was left and doesn't the previous coach get the credit for what his players did?

Yep, someone taught him how to coach alright. I'm taking him as a finished product over Shaw as a finished product.

 

[socaljim242]

Yep, someone taught him how to coach alright. I'm taking him as a finished product over Shaw as a finished product.

Rileys a finished product but has yet to coach one practice with players he recruited. LOL. Ever hear of Larry Coker? He did pretty good with other coaches players too. Ever see Barry Switzer coach Dallas once Jimmys players started leaving?

 

[Across The Field]

Rileys a finished product but has yet to coach one practice with players he recruited. LOL. Ever hear of Larry Coker? He did pretty good with other coaches players too. Ever see Barry Switzer coach Dallas once Jimmys players started leaving?

We'll just see. If Riley falls off, fine. The coaching job he did this year, though, was fantastic. I haven't been impressed by anything Shaw has done in years.

 

[socaljim242]

We'll just see. If Riley falls off, fine. The coaching job he did this year, though, was fantastic. I haven't been impressed by anything Shaw has done in years.

LOL. Yeah, four years after that guy coaching Michigan (and doing a fine job I must say) left ,Shaw took a team entirely made up of his own recruits and with his own assistants he hired, took them to a final #3 in the country beating a top five team in a bowl game. While Riley took over a team that finished last season exactly where they did this season at #3 but lost his last game and he used not one player he recruited as a head coach and was in his first year as a head coach.
But what Riley did was more impressive than what Shaws ever done. LOL. Awesome logic.
Larry Coker -Barry Switzer ( the dallas coach) would love you. lol

 

[4down20]

I can't tell if this is for real or not. He took over Stanford when they were a 1-11 team. Did you know that? The 12-1 record he compiled in 2010 (his final year) is better than any record Shaw has had.

I'm a Stanford fan, so I'm pretty familiar with their records and such. Harbaugh had Luck, a USC that was down and an Oregon team that couldn't stop a power run team if their life depended on it.

I mean you go on and on and give Harbaugh all the credit, and yet did you know Shaw was the OC the entire time? Do you think maybe he had a little bit of a hand in things? Especially since Harbaugh can't seem to do shit without him as OC?

 

[Across The Field]

LOL. Yeah, four years after that guy coaching Michigan (and doing a fine job I must say) left ,Shaw took a team entirely made up of his own recruits and with his own assistants he hired, took them to a final #3 in the country beating a top five team in a bowl game. While Riley took over a team that finished last season exactly where they did this season at #3 but lost his last game and he used not one player he recruited as a head coach and was in his first year as a head coach.
But what Riley did was more impressive than what Shaws ever done. LOL. Awesome logic.
Larry Coker -Barry Switzer ( the dallas coach) would love you. lol

So the 2015 season is supposed to be this amazing job that everyone is supposed to be in awe of? That's what makes him a better coach in 2018?

Here's a fun fact: Riley had more ranked wins in 2017 than Shaw had from 2015-2017 (yes, including that magical 2015 season that is so amazingly awesome and makes Shaw so amazing).

Here's another fun fact: Riley had four top 15 wins in 2017. Shaw has never had more than 2 in any season he's coached.

So yeah, Riley's 2017 was more impressive than anything Shaw has done.

 

[4down20]

I can't tell if this is for real or not. He took over Stanford when they were a 1-11 team. Did you know that? The 12-1 record he compiled in 2010 (his final year) is better than any record Shaw has had.

And btw, Shaw went 12-2 which may seem like it's worse than 12-1, except for the fact that Shaw won the Pac12 Championship that year as well as the Rose Bowl. Shaw's season was better.