To the LeBron haters

[CitySushi]

To all the Lebron detractors, I have a legitimate question. What about his game, would you have changed that you think would have potentially boosted your opinion of him? Is it simply his finals record? Social Media presence? Coverage on him from day 1 in the NBA?

 

[True Lakers Fan]

To all the Lebron detractors, I have a legitimate question. What about his game, would you have changed that you think would have potentially boosted your opinion of him? Is it simply his finals record? Social Media presence? Coverage on him from day 1 in the NBA?

He has a good game and there is no doubt that he is one of the best in his generation and certainly in the top 5 in the last 20 years, but to say he is in the top 5 ever is a stretch for me - because then you're saying he is better then all of them including Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul Jabaar, Carl Robinson, John Stocton, Bill Walton, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Karl Malone. There are just so many players that you would have break down and compare the stats, and then consider the era, the rules and how each would do today - that I personally need more than your word at saying he was a goat - I want evidence and research to back up your claims -

 

[LAD]

To all the Lebron detractors, I have a legitimate question. What about his game, would you have changed that you think would have potentially boosted your opinion of him? Is it simply his finals record? Social Media presence? Coverage on him from day 1 in the NBA?

IMO his game is solid - except for when he shies away in crunch time. At some point he has to put winning over being the best team mate if he wants to be considered the greatest. I don't think he uses the best judgment in those situations - meaning relying on his FG% when barreling to the rim is going to be his teams best chance to win when the game is on the line.

 

[CitySushi]

He has a good game and there is no doubt that he is one of the best in his generation and certainly in the top 5 in the last 20 years, but to say he is in the top 5 ever is a stretch for me - because then you're saying he is better then all of them including Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul Jabaar, Carl Robinson, John Stocton, Bill Walton, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Karl Malone. There are just so many players that you would have break down and compare the stats, and then consider the era, the rules and how each would do today - that I personally need more than your word at saying he was a goat - I want evidence and research to back up your claims -

I'm not claiming him to be the GOAT.

Of course a top 5 list is subjective. I'm not trying to change your opinion on that. But I feel you're clearly not even trying to be objective about it when you include guys like John Stockton and Bill Walton as comparison. Even those guys would tell you Lebron was clearly a better player than they ever were and it wouldn't just be from a humilty aspect. Bill Walton was a 1x MVP, 2x All Star with career averages of 13 pts and 10 Rebounds a game. He played in a total of 468 Games.

For me, I have MJ, Magic and Kareem as pretty much the only locks for top 5. After that some bias comes in to play. But I'm at least acknowledging greatness. You don't feel comfortable putting him ahead of Bird? No problem. or Wilt? or Russell? Fine. Whatever metrics you want to use that's completely fine.

But suggesting Walton or Stockton was a better player is just being argumentative at this point.

#CarlRobinson

 

[Black Adam]

To all the Lebron detractors, I have a legitimate question. What about his game, would you have changed that you think would have potentially boosted your opinion of him? Is it simply his finals record? Social Media presence? Coverage on him from day 1 in the NBA?

has nothing to do with his game, as i've stated from day 1...

 

[Mecca]

I'm not claiming him to be the GOAT.

Of course a top 5 list is subjective. I'm not trying to change your opinion on that. But I feel you're clearly not even trying to be objective about it when you include guys like John Stockton and Bill Walton as comparison. Even those guys would tell you Lebron was clearly a better player than they ever were and it wouldn't just be from a humilty aspect. Bill Walton was a 1x MVP, 2x All Star with career averages of 13 pts and 10 Rebounds a game. He played in a total of 468 Games.

For me, I have MJ, Magic and Kareem as pretty much the only locks for top 5. After that some bias comes in to play. But I'm at least acknowledging greatness. You don't feel comfortable putting him ahead of Bird? No problem. or Wilt? or Russell? Fine. Whatever metrics you want to use that's completely fine.

But suggesting Walton or Stockton was a better player is just being argumentative at this point.

#CarlRobinson

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Problem on these boards is some people on here get way too annoyed when lebron isn't placed where THEY want him to be.

Put lebron out of the top 5 and you get ridiculed for it.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

I'm not claiming him to be the GOAT.

Of course a top 5 list is subjective. I'm not trying to change your opinion on that. But I feel you're clearly not even trying to be objective about it when you include guys like John Stockton and Bill Walton as comparison. Even those guys would tell you Lebron was clearly a better player than they ever were and it wouldn't just be from a humilty aspect. Bill Walton was a 1x MVP, 2x All Star with career averages of 13 pts and 10 Rebounds a game. He played in a total of 468 Games.

For me, I have MJ, Magic and Kareem as pretty much the only locks for top 5. After that some bias comes in to play. But I'm at least acknowledging greatness. You don't feel comfortable putting him ahead of Bird? No problem. or Wilt? or Russell? Fine. Whatever metrics you want to use that's completely fine.

But suggesting Walton or Stockton was a better player is just being argumentative at this point.

#CarlRobinson

I was throwing their names out there as examples - I am pretty sure that in the last 60 years of basketball, there have been more then a few dozen players with stats just as good as LeBron. If you are going to make the claim that he is a top 5 player of all time - then what I am saying is I need evidence to back it up. You need numbers to prove that he played better then Kareem Abdul Jabaar. Wilt Chamberlain - stats. Now by your standards - titles don't matter -so stats and numbers to back you up - that's all I am asking for.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

has nothing to do with his game, as i've stated from day 1...

If he ends up as a Laker's, just let me know if you need some help getting to the doctor for some meds

 

[Mecca]

Problem on these boards is some people on here get way too annoyed when lebron isn't placed where THEY want him to be.

Put lebron out of the top 5 and you get ridiculed for it.

I have the perfect solution to settle this quagmire.

How's about we create a poll?

Oh, wait....

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

I have the perfect solution to settle this quagmire.

How's about we create a poll?

Oh, wait....

Everyone has an opinion on these boards. It amuses me when someone say their opinion is wrong.

 

[CitySushi]

I was throwing their names out there as examples - I am pretty sure that in the last 60 years of basketball, there have been more then a few dozen players with stats just as good as LeBron. If you are going to make the claim that he is a top 5 player of all time - then what I am saying is I need evidence to back it up. You need numbers to prove that he played better then Kareem Abdul Jabaar. Wilt Chamberlain - stats. Now by your standards - titles don't matter -so stats and numbers to back you up - that's all I am asking for.

Think you may have me confused with someone else. I just jumped in this convo, so all your assumptions about me are incorrect dude.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Think you may have me confused with someone else. I just jumped in this convo, so all your assumptions about me are incorrect dude.

I was just talking in general - nothing directed at you personally - I get it that many thinks LeRoy was the GOAT, and my response is simple - prove it

 

[CitySushi]

I was throwing their names out there as examples - I am pretty sure that in the last 60 years of basketball, there have been more then a few dozen players with stats just as good as LeBron. If you are going to make the claim that he is a top 5 player of all time - then what I am saying is I need evidence to back it up. You need numbers to prove that he played better then Kareem Abdul Jabaar. Wilt Chamberlain - stats. Now by your standards - titles don't matter -so stats and numbers to back you up - that's all I am asking for.

Again, I'm not trying to change your opinion. It is what it is. If you think he's not top 5, I'm not gonna try to change your opinion on it. Why not? Because you're free to use any metric you like to rank players.

All I'm saying though is that you need to at least be consistent with it. You clearly have no metric or standard of which you're measuring these players by. Your blanket statement of you thinking people had similar stats as him in the last 60 years, shows that you have put literally no thought into this and are just ranking Lebron low just to be argumentative.

If you have a top 5, top 10, top 20 list, be prepared to at least defend it with some sort of baseline of what you used to determine it. If you just hate Lebron, at least man up about it and say so and no one would give you shit. But if you're using actual basketball knowledge to determine that, then YOU need to back it up. Not me.

 

[Mecca]

Everyone has an opinion on these boards. It amuses me when someone say their opinion is wrong.

Perception is reality.

When people place higher value on different things, it's impossible to agree.

I 100% think my opinion is correct on this topic.

But, I'm not arrogant enough to think that makes it so.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Again, I'm not trying to change your opinion. It is what it is. If you think he's not top 5, I'm not gonna try to change your opinion on it. Why not? Because you're free to use any metric you like to rank players.

All I'm saying though is that you need to at least be consistent with it. You clearly have no metric or standard of which you're measuring these players by. Your blanket statement of you thinking people had similar stats as him in the last 60 years, shows that you have put literally no thought into this and are just ranking Lebron low just to be argumentative.

If you have a top 5, top 10, top 20 list, be prepared to at least defend it with some sort of baseline of what you used to determine it. If you just hate Lebron, at least man up about it and say so and no one would give you shit. But if you're using actual basketball knowledge to determine that, then YOU need to back it up. Not me.

I actually posted Michael Jordan's stats vs LeBron - Michael was a better shooter, and defender in my book and LeBron averages more assists and Rebounds. To me that is a mixed and what separates the two is Michael's three championships more then LeBron - that's a stat - but like I said, if some one wants to convince me and others that he should be worship as God - then give me the numbers. I am not the one trying to convince anyone. It's the LJF's that are trying to convince ME

 

[msgkings322]

Again, I'd rather have the winning record. I'm not sure how one can brag about making the Finals 8 times if they've lost more times than they've won because just making the Finals isn't the ultimate goal. Maybe to some that is logical, but it just isn't to me.

So you'd rather have 2 rings than 3? Even though winning rings was the whole point as you just said? That is beyond retarded.

 

[CitySushi]

I actually posted Michael Jordan's stats vs LeBron - Michael was a better shooter, and defender in my book and LeBron averages more assists and Rebounds. To me that is a mixed and what separates the two is Michael's three championships more then LeBron - that's a stat - but like I said, if some one wants to convince me and others that he should be worship as God - then give me the numbers. I am not the one trying to convince anyone. It's the LJF's that are trying to convince ME

No question I agree 100% MJ is the Goat. For multiple reasons, and for the defense which was amazing.

I get your gripe, but you don't have to be the extreme polar opposite of LBJ fans to have a solid perspective.

I think Lebron is one of the greatest NBA players to ever play the game. His skill set is unique in that if he simply wanted to, he could lead the league in Points, Assists or Rebounds at any given time (not necessarily all at the same time).

Recognizing greatness doesn't mean you have to detract from someone else's greatness. If you think Tim Duncan is the best power forward of all time, it doesn't mean Barkley and Malone were garbage.

But I will say, with extreme prejudice...Kobe sucks.

 

[Gman]

To all the Lebron detractors, I have a legitimate question. What about his game, would you have changed that you think would have potentially boosted your opinion of him? Is it simply his finals record? Social Media presence? Coverage on him from day 1 in the NBA?

It's the off the court stuff that turned me into a hater... "the Decision" was strike 1 and 2 in my book.

His behind-the-scenes nonsense where he goes above and around his coach, GM and organization also earn my dislike.

Finally, his self importance.

That about sums it up, I suppose.

 

[msgkings322]

I am glad that we agree - I knew that would piss off a few people

He's not pissed off. He pities you, as do I.