Wild idea

[NWPATSFAN]

TE="SonnyCID, post: 6486349, member: 4328"]
To find "true value" of a playert you take them out of their system and see how they do in other systems?

Brady has a ton of success in an offense of short passes, should we assume that if he went to Seattle or GB and was in an offense where he rolls out often and and use the ball deep more, that his value would be adversely affected? Probably not.

And it's funny... In 2013, Brady's relatively down passing year was blamed on his poor receivers. In 2014, he gets Gronk back, puts up better numbers, and the "he can make any receiver great" argument comes flying back.[/QUOTE]
That's my point. Brady is a system QB. No i personally don't think he would do well rolling out. Have you seen him run? TB has done pretty good with the lack luster of talented receivers he's been dealt. I wasn't the one who started the debate tha RW would be better with better RWs. That's almost a given. I'm sick of many Seattle fans using it as an excuse. Do you need more examples of what TB has been able to do? How about Welker a cast off let go by Miami and he became a stud no one heard of. Eddleman a 7th round QB out of Kent State has done pretty well in that system.
it's really amazing how many Hawk fans get their collective panties in an uproar when someone doesn't praise everyone on that team.

I'll say it again. I like RW he is currently in a system that works for him. I would like to see what he coukd do in a different system is all? I don't really care if he stays or goes. Just think he more so than a lot of other QBs I'd like to see what he could do elsewhere? Maybe we find out in Seattle once ML leaves. If Seattle can't find that dominant back the system may have to change to keep on winning.

 

[Southieinnc]

To find "true value" of a playert you take them out of their system and see how they do in other systems?

Brady has a ton of success in an offense of short passes, should we assume that if he went to Seattle or GB and was in an offense where he rolls out often and and use the ball deep more, that his value would be adversely affected? Probably not.

And it's funny... In 2013, Brady's relatively down passing year was blamed on his poor receivers. In 2014, he gets Gronk back, puts up better numbers, and the "he can make any receiver great" argument comes flying back.

So to "find true value" of an agent you take one out of baseball and see if he can negotiate a baseball type of contract?
I once hired a real estate agent but only gave her a 2 month contract. I said if you don't sell the property by then, why would I not want to list it with someone else?

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

TE="SonnyCID, post: 6486349, member: 4328"]
To find "true value" of a playert you take them out of their system and see how they do in other systems?

Brady has a ton of success in an offense of short passes, should we assume that if he went to Seattle or GB and was in an offense where he rolls out often and and use the ball deep more, that his value would be adversely affected? Probably not.

And it's funny... In 2013, Brady's relatively down passing year was blamed on his poor receivers. In 2014, he gets Gronk back, puts up better numbers, and the "he can make any receiver great" argument comes flying back.

That's my point. Brady is a system QB. No i personally don't think he would do well rolling out. Have you seen him run? TB has done pretty good with the lack luster of talented receivers he's been dealt. I wasn't the one who started the debate tha RW would be better with better RWs. That's almost a given. I'm sick of many Seattle fans using it as an excuse. Do you need more examples of what TB has been able to do? How about Welker a cast off let go by Miami and he became a stud no one heard of. Eddleman a 7th round QB out of Kent State has done pretty well in that system.
it's really amazing how many Hawk fans get their collective panties in an uproar when someone doesn't praise everyone on that team.

I'll say it again. I like RW he is currently in a system that works for him. I would like to see what he coukd do in a different system is all? I don't really care if he stays or goes. Just think he more so than a lot of other QBs I'd like to see what he could do elsewhere? Maybe we find out in Seattle once ML leaves. If Seattle can't find that dominant back the system may have to change to keep on winning.[/QUOTE]

You do realize that RW will probably be in the same system or a very close variation of it if he chooses to leave. Any team other then Seattle that signs him will redo their offensive scheme to fit his style. What system do you want to see him in?

 

[blstoker]

How about Welker a cast off let go by Miami and he became a stud no one heard of.

Wes Welker a cast off? I'm a NW fan, and I knew exactly who Wes Welker was. Not only that, but the Dolphins liked him, giving him a second round tender. Hell, New England traded a second and seventh round picks for him. They knew exactly who he was, and exactly how they were going to use him. Gimme a break, Welker had 67 catches the year before NE traded for him (with Joey Harrington as the QB). Even though he started out as a KR specialist doesn't mean he hadn't already established himself before NE came a calling.

Eddleman a 7th round QB out of Kent State has done pretty well in that system.

Just because Edelman was drafted in the 7th means nothing when it comes to his quality as a target (hell, being a QB in college means even less). He was able to take the Welker approach to success (just did it all with the Pats instead of the Dolphins), and is the current Welker in the offense.

From 2007-2013, the Pats had at least 1 receiver with 100 catches, 1000 yards and a 67% completion percentage when targeted (though it was as high as 77% with Welker) in 6 out of 7 years. 4 times they had at least 2 receivers with 1000 yards (and only once did they have a season without a 1000 yard receiver).

it's really amazing how many Hawk fans get their collective panties in an uproar when someone doesn't praise everyone on that team.

You seem to be the one who's "got their panties in an uproar" over this because others aren't agreeing with you about the talent that Brady has to play with. This has been a pretty civil conversation, not too many "panties in an uproar" comments here. You're the one who injected the Tom Brady has worked with worse WRs than Russell Wilson, and is still successful every year idea into this conversation.

So, honest question - who would you take in these matchups of respective targets:

Julian Edelman or Doug Baldwin?
Brandon LaFell or Jermaine Kearse?
Danny Amondola or Paul Richardson?
Tim Wright or Ricardo Lockette?
Rob Gronkowski or Luke Willson?

How about the 2013 version:

Julian Edelman or Golden Tate?
Danny Amendola or Doug Baldwin?
Aaron Dobson or Kermaine Kearse?
Kenbrel Thompkins or Sidney Rice?
Rob Gronkowski or Zach Miller?

Let's try the 2012 edition:

Wes Welker or Sidney Rice?
Brandon Lloyd or Golden Tate?
Julian Edelman or Doug Baldwin?
Deion Branch or Braylon Edwards?
Rob Gronkowski or Zach Miller?
Aaron Hernandez or Anthony McCoy?

If, when you look at these lists, you don't take at least 4 of these match ups as New England's targets each year, you're just kidding yourself.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Shoot I let a Pats fan derail this thread. This thread is about RW not Tom frigging Brady. I'm going to keeping a closer eye on NWPatsfans from here on in. Seems he loves parking his butt here on the Seahawks board to argue and derail threads.
Now let's get back to what this thread was about. RW contract and what options do the Seahawks have.

1) give in to what he's asking for
2) play hard ball, let him play out his last year, then franchise tag him, unless he is willing to meet them half way?
3) Trade for a young but promising QB and a butt load of draft choices.
4) Trade him for a aging QB like Bree's and a butt load of draft choices.
5) a Trade TB for the # 1 pick plus some picks then
a)draft Winston and cross your fingers his character issues doesn't derail him.
b) trade that pick for a young but promising QB plus even more picks.

Their may be more options feel free to add them if you think of one.

Discuss.

 

[blstoker]

Personally, I like options 1 and 2. The problem with the butt load of draft picks is that we have 11 picks this year, and I can't imagine even half of them making the team. It could be just as difficult to add players in drafts to come.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Shoot I let a Pats fan derail this thread. This thread is about RW not Tom frigging Brady. I'm going to keeping a closer eye on NWPatsfans from here on in. Seems he loves parking his butt here on the Seahawks board to argue and derail threads.
Now let's get back to what this thread was about. RW contract and what options do the Seahawks have.

1) give in to what he's asking for
2) play hard ball, let him play out his last year, then franchise tag him, unless he is willing to meet them half way?
3) Trade for a young but promising QB and a butt load of draft choices.
4) Trade him for a aging QB like Bree's and a butt load of draft choices.
5) a Trade TB for the # 1 pick plus some picks then
a)draft Winston and cross your fingers his character issues doesn't derail him.
b) trade that pick for a young but promising QB plus even more picks.

Their may be more options feel free to add them if you think of one.

Discuss.

Before I choose #2, I would like to know where the starting points are from both sides. Any rumors on any numbers being thrown around?

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Personally, I like options 1 and 2. The problem with the butt load of draft picks is that we have 11 picks this year, and I can't imagine even half of them making the team. It could be just as difficult to add players in drafts to come.

I get the feeling it will come down to #2, and let me tell you I really hope there is some compromise on both sides and they can come to a agreement this off season.

I still think it would be fun to speculate on the most likely out of the box option there is, just for fun. I kind of like #5 b. Hey, to many picks this year? Trade for a upgrade next year or year after that. Or trade up, use some of those picks to move up in the draft.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Before I choose #2, I would like to know where the starting points are from both sides. Any rumors on any numbers being thrown around?

Zip on that. The CIA should ask the Seahawks and RW camp on tips to keep info to themselves.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Before I choose #2, I would like to know where the starting points are from both sides. Any rumors on any numbers being thrown around?

If I was to speculate I'd guess RW is asking for 25 per year, Aaron Rogers makes like 22 I think. I think the 22 or less is what the Seahawks have in mind, I guessing that RW demands have caught them off guard. Pure speculation of course, but it makes sense given that there is no progress being made...at least in public.

 

[blstoker]

I get the feeling it will come down to #2, and let me tell you I really hope there is some compromise on both sides and they can come to a agreement this off season.

I still think it would be fun to speculate on the most likely out of the box option there is, just for fun. I kind of like #5 b. Hey, to many picks this year? Trade for a upgrade next year or year after that. Or trade up, use some of those picks to move up in the draft.

Ok.

8 year $258 million dollar incentive based contract with $50 million guaranteed.

Base salary $1 million per year. $10 million performance bonus for 4000 yards (passing + rushing). $10 million performance bonus for 30 touchdowns (passing + rushing). $5 million bonus for committing less than 10 turnovers (interceptions + fumbles lost). If incentives are for less than $10 million, base salary becomes $10 million. $50 million signing bonus. (Not even sure if this would be legal).

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Ok.

8 year $258 million dollar incentive based contract with $50 million guaranteed.

Base salary $1 million per year. $10 million performance bonus for 4000 yards (passing + rushing). $10 million performance bonus for 30 touchdowns (passing + rushing). $5 million bonus for committing less than 10 turnovers (interceptions + fumbles lost). If incentives are for less than $10 million, base salary becomes $10 million. $50 million signing bonus. (Not even sure if this would be legal).

Now that's the kind of out the box thinking I'm talking about.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

[QUOTE="HaroldSeattle, post: 6491556, member: 1964" I let a Pats fan derail this thread. This thread is about RW not Tom frigging Brady. I'm going to keeping a closer eye on NWPatsfans from here on in. Seems he loves parking his butt here on the Seahawks board to argue and derail threads.
Now let's get back to what this thread was about. RW contract and what options do the Seahawks have.

1) give in to what he's asking for
2) play hard ball, let him play out his last year, then franchise tag him, unless he is willing to meet them half way?
3) Trade for a young but promising QB and a butt load of draft choices.
4) Trade him for a aging QB like Bree's and a butt load of draft choices.
5) a Trade TB for the # 1 pick plus some picks then
a)draft Winston and cross your fingers his character issues doesn't derail him.
b) trade that pick for a young but promising QB plus even more picks.

Their may be more options feel free to add them if you think of one.

Discuss.[/QUOTE]
Not sure how I deraiked it? I come on here and add opinions that are objective and subjective. They just may not be in line with many on this board. I don't come on here as a troll. Prior to me mentioning anything about Brady someone intoduced Megatron and Stafford. I brought up the Brady reference. Then had to listen about how Brady shits golden bricks, a diatribe of how much better his receivers are than the Hawks... should I not respond to those posts?

If you care I vote for numder 2.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

[QUOTE="HaroldSeattle, post: 6491556, member: 1964" I let a Pats fan derail this thread. This thread is about RW not Tom frigging Brady. I'm going to keeping a closer eye on NWPatsfans from here on in. Seems he loves parking his butt here on the Seahawks board to argue and derail threads.
Now let's get back to what this thread was about. RW contract and what options do the Seahawks have.

1) give in to what he's asking for
2) play hard ball, let him play out his last year, then franchise tag him, unless he is willing to meet them half way?
3) Trade for a young but promising QB and a butt load of draft choices.
4) Trade him for a aging QB like Bree's and a butt load of draft choices.
5) a Trade TB for the # 1 pick plus some picks then
a)draft Winston and cross your fingers his character issues doesn't derail him.
b) trade that pick for a young but promising QB plus even more picks.

Their may be more options feel free to add them if you think of one.

Discuss.

Not sure how I deraiked it? I come on here and add opinions that are objective and subjective. They just may not be in line with many on this board. I don't come on here as a troll. Prior to me mentioning anything about Brady someone intoduced Megatron and Stafford. I brought up the Brady reference. Then had to listen about how Brady shits golden bricks, a diatribe of how much better his receivers are than the Hawks... should I not respond to those posts?

If you care I vote for numder 2.[/QUOTE]
Number 2 is a real possibility . As for your derailing the the thread, let's just call it my 2 cents. You seem to be very interested in the Seahawks board, isn't the Pats board keeping you entertained? You seem like like a alright guy, but you come here with a agenda or a chip on the shoulder IMO. Stick to the subject and you should do OK.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I look at most of the boards. As you're well aware the main, Pats, and Hawk boards are the most active so I spend and post most times there. I do frequent the Hawks board regularly. Not posting near as much as I observe. When there is a subject I feel passionate about I jump in. Sometimes it's one single post, others times it's one like this. No agenda/no chip just a different viewpoint. Again I don't come as a troll. I enjoy this site and always welcome healthy banter.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

If I was to speculate I'd guess RW is asking for 25 per year, Aaron Rogers makes like 22 I think. I think the 22 or less is what the Seahawks have in mind, I guessing that RW demands have caught them off guard. Pure speculation of course, but it makes sense given that there is no progress being made...at least in public.

Could the fact that RW's agent being a baseball agent have anything to do with the slow process?

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Could the fact that RW's agent being a baseball agent have anything to do with the slow process?

I don't think it helps.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

I don't think it helps.

This is what's scary because baseball agents can shoot for the moon knowing there isn't cap, yet can he work a football contract with cap restrictions? I just hope RW isn't getting bad advice from this guy.

 

[Screamin12th]

NWPATSFAN only sticks around here because it allows him to feel better about himself longer. Yes they won the Superbowl but that was a superbowl that if played 10 times the Hawks would win 8 of them.

Now as far as the "TOPIC" that you know who keeps derailing i still believe we won't see any movement until after the draft. Like i have stated before this allows them to keep EVERY option open even a trade for Wilson if someone offers up something totally ridiculous like 3 firsts 3 seconds and a couple 3rd's +a young QB ( Carr )

 

[Southieinnc]

Shoot I let a Pats fan derail this thread. This thread is about RW not Tom frigging Brady. I'm going to keeping a closer eye on NWPatsfans from here on in. Seems he loves parking his butt here on the Seahawks board to argue and derail threads.
Now let's get back to what this thread was about. RW contract and what options do the Seahawks have.

1) give in to what he's asking for
2) play hard ball, let him play out his last year, then franchise tag him, unless he is willing to meet them half way?
3) Trade for a young but promising QB and a butt load of draft choices.
4) Trade him for a aging QB like Bree's and a butt load of draft choices.
5) a Trade TB for the # 1 pick plus some picks then
a)draft Winston and cross your fingers his character issues doesn't derail him.
b) trade that pick for a young but promising QB plus even more picks.

Their may be more options feel free to add them if you think of one.

Discuss.

1) no, he's expecting you to negotiate
2) maybe
3) how much is a buttload?
4) no, Brees will just retire
5) a)WTF? Go from one of the genuine good guys for Florida ghetto trash? FHRITP?
b) Are you talking Garrapolo or Carr? Or you talking Mettenberger? Who is young and promising?
6) Keep negotiating and you will sign him.....