The Trade for Butler

[BigKen]

Everybody's thinking that there was a wink-wink deal where the Patriots get Brandin Cooks and Malcolm Butler gets an offer from the Saints and the Patriots get the picks they sent to the Saints for Cooks and it basically becomes a Butler/Cooks + 4th round pick.

WRONG..............Never that simple and the NFL is watching this more closely than anyone would expect. Roger Goodell would like nothing more than to catch Bill Belichick doing a behind the scenes deal and either ban him for life or at worst ban him for a year.

Phil Perry of ESPN & CNNSE basically stated out loud that Belichick made the deal for Cooks and that getting the picks back is not going to give the Saints Butler. He says that it will cost the Saints the #11 and quiet possibly a 2nd or 3rd round pick and that 3rd rounder will not be the Patriots traded pick.

He said that Sean Payton also has to watch his step because of past NFL penalties.

His final statement was pretty simple. Right now the Saints have less than $12M in cap space. Butler was bitching about not being paid Gilmore money. If the Saints give Butler $12M, they literally will have to pare a couple of players and sign cheaper ones or get several players to renegotiate their contracts. Asking players to take pay cuts with a huge new salary cap may be really difficult.

Finally, the Patriots have about $43M in cap space and they have to use it somewhere. If Butler gets a three year $36M offer from the Saints, why wouldn't BB just match it? He'd still have $31M in cap space and one of the best Cornerback tandems in the NFL.

Perry thinks that this deal may not happen after all and that Butler will be back with New England, playing for his third Super Bowl ring.

 

[Rex Racer]

I'm starting to get the feeling that Butler is not going anywhere as well. If the Saints salary cap situation is as tight as you say then they really don't have the money to give him the contract he seeking from New England. So why would he go to a team that is past it's prime and really doesn't have much of a shot to win a title if the money is not going to be considerably better than just staying where he is and having a real good shot at winning a title.

 

[ohiopatsfan]

I still think Butler will wind up in NO. The Saints are obviously very interested and, with the way he has been handled by the Pats, Butler is also motivated to move on. He was hurt by how much dough BB laid out to get Gilmore and would feel awkward being on the same team with him and making less than half of his salary. Then there are the fans in NO. Butler has been the main topic on most chat sites and, if the Saints can't reel him in, the fans will be mad. In the end, I think the teams will settle on NO trading their first round pick (#11) and third round pick and the Pats will trade their fourth round pick (the one that was going to be forfeited anyway). Fan anger will also be a factor out here in Cleveland with the proposed Garoppolo trade. There has been such a furor over the Browns getting JG that anything less would be a huge letdown. The Browns were talking about starting the 2017 season with Osweiler at QB and the negative fan reaction was swift and heated. This trade will probably cost the Browns their second choice in the first round (#12) and either a mid round 2017 choice or a higher choice in 2018. With #11 and #12 in the first round, BB can then either do some trading to get multiple lower picks or draft some prospects who might not make it to the second round (RB Chris McCafferey or DB Jabril Peppers might be possibilities). These proposed deals may not happen right away and could occur just before the opening of the draft.

 

[BigKen]

What is it about the fourth round pick that no one seems to understand? If the Patriots don't have a fourth round pick, the league will take their 3rd round pick. If they don't have a 3 or 4 the league will take their 2nd round pick.

The NFL has already told the Patriots it will be the highest 4th round pick and if they trade it, the next highest pick. Goodell set the contingencies because he knew that Belichick might trade the Patriots' 4th round pick as a way to pull a quick one on the league. That's why he got the Saints 4th rounder. He ain't trading it.

As far as signing his tender, Butler is between a rock and a hard place. April 21st is the drop dead date. No NFL Restricted free agent can sign an offer sheet after that date. He has until June 6th to sign the tender if he doesn't get an offer sheet, or the $3.91 payday becomes 110% of 2016 which would give him $660,000 base salary.

One other little nugget that most ""FANS"" don't know. Butler made a $600,000 base salary in 2016, but he made another $467,000 in bonuses and playoff bonuses. Playing for the New England Patriots pays pretty well for post season.

 

[ohiopatsfan]

Thanks for the info BK. I didn't know Goodell had that language inserted into the penalty. I still think the trade gets done. NO's tight cap space may make for some creative contract incentives and bonuses, but I see it going down.

 

[bunchofpixels]

My opinion on the whole Butler mess boils down to this: I'd rather have Butler for one year under the restricted tag, then trade him to the Saints for the 1st and 3rd they traded to Saints in the Cooks trade. If the Patriots are not getting the Saints 1st rounder(#11 overall?) I would not be happy. I like the Patriots chances to repeat with Butler and Gilmore in the secondary and Cooks added to the offensive mix. I am hoping a long term deal can be worked out.

 

[cdumler7]

Everybody's thinking that there was a wink-wink deal where the Patriots get Brandin Cooks and Malcolm Butler gets an offer from the Saints and the Patriots get the picks they sent to the Saints for Cooks and it basically becomes a Butler/Cooks + 4th round pick.

WRONG..............Never that simple and the NFL is watching this more closely than anyone would expect. Roger Goodell would like nothing more than to catch Bill Belichick doing a behind the scenes deal and either ban him for life or at worst ban him for a year.

Phil Perry of ESPN & CNNSE basically stated out loud that Belichick made the deal for Cooks and that getting the picks back is not going to give the Saints Butler. He says that it will cost the Saints the #11 and quiet possibly a 2nd or 3rd round pick and that 3rd rounder will not be the Patriots traded pick.

He said that Sean Payton also has to watch his step because of past NFL penalties.

His final statement was pretty simple. Right now the Saints have less than $12M in cap space. Butler was bitching about not being paid Gilmore money. If the Saints give Butler $12M, they literally will have to pare a couple of players and sign cheaper ones or get several players to renegotiate their contracts. Asking players to take pay cuts with a huge new salary cap may be really difficult.

Finally, the Patriots have about $43M in cap space and they have to use it somewhere. If Butler gets a three year $36M offer from the Saints, why wouldn't BB just match it? He'd still have $31M in cap space and one of the best Cornerback tandems in the NFL.

Perry thinks that this deal may not happen after all and that Butler will be back with New England, playing for his third Super Bowl ring.

Just because he gets a deal paying him say $14 million a year doesn't mean that first year cap hit has to be that. Justin Houston is a great example only counting something like $6 million his first year against the cap even though his contract averaged out to over $16 million a year. So they don't have to restructure or do anything of that sorts.

 

[BigKen]

I was just repeating what Perry said during Sports Tonight.

I don't think he or anyone else cared about the Saints cap position, I think he was pretty much warning BB and Payton that the league is watching the deal very closely. If the two teams try to -re-swap the original picks in the trade, the league will nullify the deal. Belichick and Payton would most likely get accused of something illegal and we'd hear "Integrity of the NFL" while Goodell suspended both of them for life as the courts say he can do. You know he absolutely hated getting his face rubbed in a snotty hankie when the Patriots went 3-1 without Brady and then had the greatest comeback in Super Bowl history to win it.

In my opinion, Perry was just sounding a bullhorn and was telling everyone that this deal was going to come to a crashing halt. And it did. Now the parties are saying that Malcolm and the Saints are not as close as everyone thought. I think once they found out the league was watching and waiting, they understood the deal had to be a hell of a lot different.

I don't think the Saints want to give the #11 and their 3rd Round pick for Butler AND pay him $12M a year. As good as he may be, that's a pretty steep price for a 5'9" CB who will be playing against 6'4" and 6'5" WRs every week in the NFC South.

I also think Perry has more info than we do and he's probably right, Butler will be playing for the Patriots for at least one more season.

Those NFL dogs are sniffing every foot print in the snow down at Gillette.....

 

[CreepCreep2014]

Nothing can happen until Butler signs his tender. NE and NO cannot even talk about Butler until that happens. BOTH teams know that Roger is watching, and BOTH team have been fucked over by him. I am pretty sure there is no talk of picks or anything like that.

My thought was that maybe #11 and player come back to NE for Butler and Dola. NE could use a LB and NO has quite a few of them and they also signed Manti Te'o too. There is no way they will trade back #32 to NE. That would be just dumb. It starts with 11, and ends with 11. In the End, Butler is here.

 

[BigKen]

There's a good article in Masslive today written by Kevin Tyler (?).....

Anyway he discusses 8 possible scenarios for Malcolm Butler. Most of them have been discussed in detail in SportsHoopla but there was one I never gave a second of thought...........

Butler signs the Tender Offer that the Patriots have placed on him, expecting to be traded to the Saints. Belichick instead, trades Butler to the San Francisco 49ers for the #3 pick in the draft. Now he has to play for the 49ers for at least one year for $3.91M. It's pretty wild, but I never thought that something like that 'could' happen.

Butler has until April 21 to find a team willing to give up at least a first round pick and pay him in the vicinity of $14M a year. Or work out a deal with the Patriots that is possibly less damaging.

No team has made an open offer to a restricted free agent with a first round tender since 2003. The Redskins mad an offer to Lavernous Coles from the NY Jets. Possibly one of the worst free agent pick ups in NFL history. That signing has literally killed any restricted free agent from getting an open offer. Teams have made trade deals before hand and the player has signed the tender. No other team seems to be very interested in going after Butler other than the Saints.

Seriously, Is Butler worth 3-5 years at $14M a year?? AND a first round pick and more?

 

[cdumler7]

There's a good article in Masslive today written by Kevin Tyler (?).....

Anyway he discusses 8 possible scenarios for Malcolm Butler. Most of them have been discussed in detail in SportsHoopla but there was one I never gave a second of thought...........

Butler signs the Tender Offer that the Patriots have placed on him, expecting to be traded to the Saints. Belichick instead, trades Butler to the San Francisco 49ers for the #3 pick in the draft. Now he has to play for the 49ers for at least one year for $3.91M. It's pretty wild, but I never thought that something like that 'could' happen.

Butler has until April 21 to find a team willing to give up at least a first round pick and pay him in the vicinity of $14M a year. Or work out a deal with the Patriots that is possibly less damaging.

No team has made an open offer to a restricted free agent with a first round tender since 2003. The Redskins mad an offer to Lavernous Coles from the NY Jets. Possibly one of the worst free agent pick ups in NFL history. That signing has literally killed any restricted free agent from getting an open offer. Teams have made trade deals before hand and the player has signed the tender. No other team seems to be very interested in going after Butler other than the Saints.

Seriously, Is Butler worth 3-5 years at $14M a year?? AND a first round pick and more?

Not sure how San Fran got into the picture? First they have the #2 overall pick. Not sure why they are trading that for a CB. Yes that is a need but this is a loaded CB class and well there are players rated much higher at this point. And if no other team seems interested in Butler than the Saints then why even talk about the 49ers?

 

[Southieinnc]

Not sure how San Fran got into the picture? First they have the #2 overall pick. Not sure why they are trading that for a CB. Yes that is a need but this is a loaded CB class and well there are players rated much higher at this point. And if no other team seems interested in Butler than the Saints then why even talk about the 49ers?

Damn, CD. It was hypothetical. Pick another team and hypothetically use that team as a discussion.
Ken was pointing out what COULD happen......

 

[cdumler7]

Damn, CD. It was hypothetical. Pick another team and hypothetically use that team as a discussion.
Ken was pointing out what COULD happen......

Ok sorry. Just if I'm picking a hypothetical team I'm not picking the team with the #2 overall pick in the draft. I'm picking a team from pick 15 on since that would be the more realistic option.

 

[Southieinnc]

Ok sorry. Just if I'm picking a hypothetical team I'm not picking the team with the #2 overall pick in the draft. I'm picking a team from pick 15 on since that would be the more realistic option.

Fair enough, but if you are talking hypothetical, you might use the #2 for emphasis.
You might also use the #32 to show how unlikely it is.....

 

[BigKen]

Thanks Southie........

That's why I stay away from the Bronco board. Everything is literal. Hypothesis is literal, especially from me.
I don't defend myself anymore, it's waste of time.

 

[cdumler7]

Thanks Southie........

That's why I stay away from the Bronco board. Everything is literal. Hypothesis is literal, especially from me.
I don't defend myself anymore, it's waste of time.

Well considering you have come on with some pretty crazy out there ideas can you really blame me for thinking you really thought the 49ers would give up the #2 overall pick? I do apologize for not realizing that was just a thrown out there idea. And we welcome you on the Bronco board any time. The problem is you come on just to try and rial people up by calling our team cheaters or saying our players are trash. Big difference between coming in to have an actual football conversation and saying "Aqib Talib is a trash player that shouldn't be in the league." You don't come to team boards and say things like that when you want to have an actual football conversation.

 

[BigKen]

Well considering you have come on with some pretty crazy out there ideas can you really blame me for thinking you really thought the 49ers would give up the #2 overall pick? I do apologize for not realizing that was just a thrown out there idea. And we welcome you on the Bronco board any time. The problem is you come on just to try and rial people up by calling our team cheaters or saying our players are trash. Big difference between coming in to have an actual football conversation and saying "Aqib Talib is a trash player that shouldn't be in the league." You don't come to team boards and say things like that when you want to have an actual football conversation.

You are the perfect example of what I'm teaching my grandson N_O_T to do. You (meaning him) don't have to get in the last comment or word.........especially when dealing with adults. You (meaning him) will lose their respect and appear to be a wise ass.

 

[cdumler7]

You are the perfect example of what I'm teaching my grandson N_O_T to do. You (meaning him) don't have to get in the last comment or word.........especially when dealing with adults. You (meaning him) will lose their respect and appear to be a wise ass.

Few things...

1) Are you not doing the same thing say I didn't respond to this point being the one that has to make sure to get the last word in? I mean if you are actually being an example to your grandson then don't respond to this post.

2) You called out Bronco fans and the board that I enjoy talking football with other people on. Did you not expect me to respond when you call out people I call friends?

3) At least you are not denying that you come to the Bronco board and troll. Glad you can at least admit that part because well I can present countless posts that prove the point. Again Bronco fans have been very welcoming to all fans as long as they come to the board to actually talk football. We don't come to the board to just talk to trolls.

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

Going to the Bronco board just to troll LGM is still OK, though, right?

 

[cdumler7]

Going to the Bronco board just to troll LGM is still OK, though, right?

Well that is always allowed. Heck Bronco fans do that to him.