The Seahawks have given up

[blstoker]

Did anyone watch the video i dropped in here last night? He makes some great points about the teams success post SB loss including about the unimpressive three playoff wins.

Yes, watched the video.

 

[flyerhawk]

Did anyone watch the video i dropped in here last night? He makes some great points about the teams success post SB loss including about the unimpressive three playoff wins.

Yup. Russ is responsible, apparently, for all the failures and none of the successes.

And yet everyone here is shocked that it happened.

Yes because we didn't think that Jodi would actually choose the 71 year old coach over the in his prime QB. We were wrong.

No way Paul makes that choice.

 

[flyerhawk]

Did anyone watch the video i dropped in here last night? He makes some great points about the teams success post SB loss including about the unimpressive three playoff wins.



And yet everyone here is shocked that it happened.

BTW, you never responded when I quoted what Greg Olsen ACTUALLY said instead of what you claimed he said. Let me requote it and show where is says that Russ was limited..

“I never thought they had a personnel issue,” Olsen told Cowherd. “The conversations I would have with the coaches and the amount of pushback and the amount of questions I would get in return, saying ‘I’m not sure if we could do this. I’m not sure if we could protect this.’ I’d sit there scratching my head. It was like we were playing with a JV roster. It was like we were playing with a rookie undrafted quarterback. It was very interesting to me.

“The ideology there was always defense first, kicking game, punt the ball, field position, forced turnovers, and then hand the ball over to Russ at the end of the game and say, ‘Go be magic.’ I just think it was part of Russell’s frustration. I think it’s why he said, ‘I want to go somewhere where this is going to be an offensive, quarterback-driven team every Sunday with the ball in my hand, like Aaron Rodgers.'”

 

[JMR]

BTW, you never responded when I quoted what Greg Olsen ACTUALLY said instead of what you claimed he said. Let me requote it and show where is says that Russ was limited..

“I never thought they had a personnel issue,” Olsen told Cowherd. “The conversations I would have with the coaches and the amount of pushback and the amount of questions I would get in return, saying ‘I’m not sure if we could do this. I’m not sure if we could protect this.’ I’d sit there scratching my head. It was like we were playing with a JV roster. It was like we were playing with a rookie undrafted quarterback. It was very interesting to me.

“The ideology there was always defense first, kicking game, punt the ball, field position, forced turnovers, and then hand the ball over to Russ at the end of the game and say, ‘Go be magic.’ I just think it was part of Russell’s frustration. I think it’s why he said, ‘I want to go somewhere where this is going to be an offensive, quarterback-driven team every Sunday with the ball in my hand, like Aaron Rodgers.'”

Anyone who reads those quotes and then says they point to Russell being limited as a player is totally full of shit.

 

[blstoker]

Anyone who reads those quotes and then says they point to Russell being limited as a player is totally full of shit.

Yeah, seems to be critical of Pete more than anything.

 

[flyerhawk]

Anyone who reads those quotes and then says they point to Russell being limited as a player is totally full of shit.

Exactly. And this is the problem. I think Pete is so risk averse that he hobbles the offense. Which is why it doesn't matter who the OC is.

 

[MrS]

Yup. Russ is responsible, apparently, for all the failures and none of the successes.

thats never been my stance. I advocated AGAINST trading him and firing the FO for a while there. but I can see that he is not worth $50m a year and that the team simply will not succeed with him taking up that much of the cap. sometimes you have to adjust your views on things to better reflect reality.

Yes because we didn't think that Jodi would actually choose the 71 year old coach over the in his prime QB. We were wrong.

No way Paul makes that choice.

Pete is the executive vice president, he calls the shots. I dont think we know enough about Jodi to make a judgment at this point.

BTW, you never responded when I quoted what Greg Olsen ACTUALLY said instead of what you claimed he said. Let me requote it and show where is says that Russ was limited..

I think it makes it clear that the coaches felt limited in what they could do, because thats exactly what he is saying. my take on it is, they saw the limitations wilson put on the offense and knew there were certain things they could not do because of that.

what other explanation is there? do you really believe a guy that has been coaching football longer than a lot of us have been alive is really deep down a JV coach that doesnt understand offense?

Anyone who reads those quotes and then says they point to Russell being limited as a player is totally full of shit.

based on 10 years of video evidence, he IS limited as a player in certain respects, mainly his ability to target the short middle of the field. anyone that denies this is totally full of shit

 

[blstoker]

based on 10 years of video evidence, he IS limited as a player in certain respects, mainly his ability to target the short middle of the field. anyone that denies this is totally full of shit

Russell Wilson passing charts, from Bevell to Waldron

Russell Wilson is a Hall of Fame Quarterback. He is also the best signal caller that the Seahawks have ever had, and it isn’t even close. But even the best players rarely do everything with the...

www.fieldgulls.com

 

[flyerhawk]

thats never been my stance. I advocated AGAINST trading him and firing the FO for a while there. but I can see that he is not worth $50m a year and that the team simply will not succeed with him taking up that much of the cap. sometimes you have to adjust your views on things to better reflect reality.

Russ has two more years on his contract. And he would never be able to get anywhere close to 50 million from another team on the open market. Russ is probably at the lowest point in his career in terms of value.

Pete is the executive vice president, he calls the shots. I dont think we know enough about Jodi to make a judgment at this point.

Pete calls the shots because Jodi lets him.

I think it makes it clear that the coaches felt limited in what they could do, because thats exactly what he is saying. my take on it is, they saw the limitations wilson put on the offense and knew there were certain things they could not do because of that.

Really? That's what you got from "“The ideology there was always defense first, kicking game, punt the ball, field position, forced turnovers, and then hand the ball over to Russ at the end of the game and say, ‘Go be magic.’" That the team was working around the limitations of Russ Wilson?

what other explanation is there? do you really believe a guy that has been coaching football longer than a lot of us have been alive is really deep down a JV coach that doesnt understand offense?

I believe that Pete Carroll is 71 years old and very much set in his ways. I also think that there is no one that speaks truth to power with him. His closest advisors are his sons.

based on 10 years of video evidence, he IS limited as a player in certain respects, mainly his ability to target the short middle of the field. anyone that denies this is totally full of shit

There are very few QBs that target the short middle of the field. It is a very dangerous area of the field.

 

[flyerhawk]

Russell Wilson passing charts, from Bevell to Waldron

Russell Wilson is a Hall of Fame Quarterback. He is also the best signal caller that the Seahawks have ever had, and it isn’t even close. But even the best players rarely do everything with the...

www.fieldgulls.com

Well that certainly doesn't help his argument.

 

[MrS]

Russell Wilson passing charts, from Bevell to Waldron

Russell Wilson is a Hall of Fame Quarterback. He is also the best signal caller that the Seahawks have ever had, and it isn’t even close. But even the best players rarely do everything with the...

www.fieldgulls.com

I watched every play in this game and saw 2 throws short middle, not 8 as the stats they have there suggest.

multiple instances where he had RBs waiting there but apparently couldnt get them the ball

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Russell Wilson passing charts, from Bevell to Waldron

Russell Wilson is a Hall of Fame Quarterback. He is also the best signal caller that the Seahawks have ever had, and it isn’t even close. But even the best players rarely do everything with the...

www.fieldgulls.com

It always surprises me how folks can watch the exact same thing but end up seeing things 180. With replay I've heard folks state what they saw and other say the say the opposite. It reminds me of this:

 

[JMR]

Russ has two more years on his contract. And he would never be able to get anywhere close to 50 million from another team on the open market. Russ is probably at the lowest point in his career in terms of value.

I think I disagree strongly on both accounts -- that he won't get "anywhere close" to $50M/yr and that he's at the lowest point in terms of value. The 2nd one is easy; he's certainly worth more now than when he was an unproven rookie. I think he's also worth more now than after the SB win because most of that credit was given to the defense first and then the running game/Lynch 2nd. Probably PC/JS 3rd. We heard it nonstop for multiple years after that in discussions like Luck vs Wilson or what will happen to the team once they can't afford to keep all the star players on defense.

On the money thing, I think I saw you make a comment in another thread that you expect RW to kill it with Denver, and I agree. If he does perform as expected and if Rodgers is about to reset the QB market at $50M per year, then I definitely think Russell will get an extension a year from now that is at least somewhere close to that. And if you agree with that (not sure why you wouldn't because that's the market and that's how this works), then I don't know why he wouldn't get similar money on the open market if he were available. Competition drives up the price in most cases.

 

[MrS]

Russ has two more years on his contract. And he would never be able to get anywhere close to 50 million from another team on the open market. Russ is probably at the lowest point in his career in terms of value.

this flies in the face of everything you have said up to this point

Pete calls the shots because Jodi lets him.

I doubt he runs to Jodi every time he wants to make a decision. but yes thats correct.

Really? That's what you got from "“The ideology there was always defense first, kicking game, punt the ball, field position, forced turnovers, and then hand the ball over to Russ at the end of the game and say, ‘Go be magic.’" That the team was working around the limitations of Russ Wilson?

ideology isnt dictated by what they are capable of doing. the concern clearly based on his words were "we dont think we can do that"

I believe that Pete Carroll is 71 years old and very much set in his ways. I also think that there is no one that speaks truth to power with him. His closest advisors are his sons.

who better to call you on your bullshit than your own family?

There are very few QBs that target the short middle of the field. It is a very dangerous area of the field.

target no, not necessarily. but finding open checkdowns? happens often and seems to especially hurt our defense. russell simply doesnt do it very often which makes no sense if he is totally capable of doing it on a regular basis when the need arises

 

[flyerhawk]

I watched every play in this game and saw 2 throws short middle, not 8 as the stats they have there suggest.

multiple instances where he had RBs waiting there but apparently couldnt get them the ball

• 1st & 10 at MIN 45​

  (12:50 - 1st) (No Huddle, Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to C.Carson to MIN 40 for 5 yards (N.Vigil).
• 1st & 10 at SEA 38(4:35 - 1st) R.Wilson pass short middle to D.Metcalf to 50 for 12 yards (B.Breeland) [D.Hunter

• 1st & 10 at SEA 21​

  (5:23 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to P.Hart to SEA 28 for 7 yards (H.Smith).
• 1st & 10 at SEA 25
  (0:16 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to T.Homer to SEA 37 for 12 yards (N.Vigil, E.Kendricks).
• 3rd & 7 at SEA 43
  (11:51 - 4th) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short middle to F.Swain [S.Richardson].

 

[flyerhawk]

I think I disagree strongly on both accounts -- that he won't get "anywhere close" to $50M/yr and that he's at the lowest point in terms of value. The 2nd one is easy; he's certainly worth more now than when he was an unproven rookie. I think he's also worth more now than after the SB win because most of that credit was given to the defense first and then the running game/Lynch 2nd. Probably PC/JS 3rd. We heard it nonstop for multiple years after that in discussions like Luck vs Wilson or what will happen to the team once they can't afford to keep all the star players on defense.

I may have been unclear. Russ will get 50 million a year. From Denver. What I was saying is that no other team could sign him for that number because of cap issues.

On the money thing, I think I saw you make a comment in another thread that you expect RW to kill it with Denver, and I agree. If he does perform as expected and if Rodgers is about to reset the QB market at $50M per year, then I definitely think Russell will get an extension a year from now that is at least somewhere close to that. And if you agree with that (not sure why you wouldn't because that's the market and that's how this works), then I don't know why he wouldn't get similar money on the open market if he were available. Competition drives up the price in most cases.

I think Russ will get a huge contract next year from Denver.

 

[MrS]

• 1st & 10 at MIN 45​

  (12:50 - 1st) (No Huddle, Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to C.Carson to MIN 40 for 5 yards (N.Vigil).
• 1st & 10 at SEA 38(4:35 - 1st) R.Wilson pass short middle to D.Metcalf to 50 for 12 yards (B.Breeland) [D.Hunter

• 1st & 10 at SEA 21​

  (5:23 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to P.Hart to SEA 28 for 7 yards (H.Smith).
• 1st & 10 at SEA 25
  (0:16 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to T.Homer to SEA 37 for 12 yards (N.Vigil, E.Kendricks).
• 3rd & 7 at SEA 43
  (11:51 - 4th) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short middle to F.Swain [S.Richardson].

The definition of short middle must be very broad, but thats still five not eight.

Like i said I watched every play only 2 plays were short middle.

 

[blstoker]

• 1st & 10 at MIN 45​

  (12:50 - 1st) (No Huddle, Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to C.Carson to MIN 40 for 5 yards (N.Vigil).
• 1st & 10 at SEA 38(4:35 - 1st) R.Wilson pass short middle to D.Metcalf to 50 for 12 yards (B.Breeland) [D.Hunter

• 1st & 10 at SEA 21​

  (5:23 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to P.Hart to SEA 28 for 7 yards (H.Smith).
• 1st & 10 at SEA 25
  (0:16 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to T.Homer to SEA 37 for 12 yards (N.Vigil, E.Kendricks).
• 3rd & 7 at SEA 43
  (11:51 - 4th) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short middle to F.Swain [S.Richardson].

MrS uses a personalized definition to short and will argue using his personal definition so as to not be able to be wrong.

 

[blstoker]

Russell Wilson passing charts, from Bevell to Waldron

Russell Wilson is a Hall of Fame Quarterback. He is also the best signal caller that the Seahawks have ever had, and it isn’t even close. But even the best players rarely do everything with the...

www.fieldgulls.com

So, to be clear. This article uses short as being 0-10 yards. Intermediate as 11-20. Deep as 20+. That's pretty standard in the circles I frequent. And that's the parameter in which the article conducts itself.

 

[flyerhawk]

So, to be clear. This article uses short as being 0-10 yards. Intermediate as 11-20. Deep as 20+. That's pretty standard in the circles I frequent. And that's the parameter in which the article conducts itself.

Yeah but Russ really struggles in the 0-3 yard passes over the middle. He almost never throws those!!