The NBA rookies Thread

[flyerhawk]

They need to come clean because of exactly what's happening. The media is focusing on this to an extent and since there are no clear explanations from either the Sixers or Fultz as to what the problem is, they are speculating and coming up with their own explanations.

At least if they come clean, it'll stop the speculation or at least lessen it a good bit.

It would certainly be helpful for the media and fans to have a better idea about what's going on. But ultimately they need to focus first on help Fultz, whatever that entails. If the problem is in his head now, acknowledging that publicly isn't going to help the situation.

What's strange to me is that the team is keeping him doing basketball activities with the team rather than sending him off to some private training facility. So the media gets snippets of him playing but very little else. Not sure why they are doing that.

But if the Sixers keep playing well, the fans are not going to care about Fultz. Sixer fans are very familiar with red shirt rookies.

 

[Sparhawk]

They need to come clean because of exactly what's happening. The media is focusing on this to an extent and since there are no clear explanations from either the Sixers or Fultz as to what the problem is, they are speculating and coming up with their own explanations.

At least if they come clean, it'll stop the speculation or at least lessen it a good bit.

When they were tanking, it kind of made sense to not come clean and risk the wrath of Silver.
But, they are clearly not tanking, so maybe old habits die hard?

At this point, I can only assume the story behind Fultz getting hurt/wrecking his shot/wrecking his confidence is so embarrassing that they are just dragging it out. It seems like there has to be something missing that we're not privy to.

And again, not necessarily embarrassing for Fultz, but maybe this all occurred without the Sixers knowing about it, so they're trying to avoid those 'you're investing in this kid as the top pick and you didn't know what he was doing after Summer League...' kinds of questions.

 

[trojanfan12]

It would certainly be helpful for the media and fans to have a better idea about what's going on. But ultimately they need to focus first on help Fultz, whatever that entails. If the problem is in his head now, acknowledging that publicly isn't going to help the situation.

I don't know. It might actually help the situation. I'm sure Fultz sees/hears the speculation and I doubt it's helping. Plus, the Sixers can actually help by taking some of the blame for themselves or at least explaining their thought process. They've tried explaining in half measures with murky explanations about a shoulder injury, now they say they think it's mental.

How about a simple, his shoulder was hurt, we kept playing him, it caused a change in his form and we are working on getting him back to his normal shooting form? They could even throw in a bit about how hard he's working (which I'm sure he is).

What's strange to me is that the team is keeping him doing basketball activities with the team rather than sending him off to some private training facility. So the media gets snippets of him playing but very little else. Not sure why they are doing that.

Agree. I think that's part of the problem. These days it seems that the only way to curtail media speculation, etc. is to either come completely clean or operate in total secrecy (out of sight, out of mind). All these snippets do is keep the media speculating.

But if the Sixers keep playing well, the fans are not going to care about Fultz. Sixer fans are very familiar with red shirt rookies.

This is true. Sixers fans could then put him the "wait 'til next year" category like they did with Embiid and Simmons.

 

[flyerhawk]

I don't know. It might actually help the situation. I'm sure Fultz sees/hears the speculation and I doubt it's helping. Plus, the Sixers can actually help by taking some of the blame for themselves or at least explaining their thought process. They've tried explaining in half measures with murky explanations about a shoulder injury, now they say they think it's mental.

Personally I agree but I'm not privy to all the information.

How about a simple, his shoulder was hurt, we kept playing him, it caused a change in his form and we are working on getting him back to his normal shooting form? They could even throw in a bit about how hard he's working (which I'm sure he is).

I agree. It seems to me that the Sixers could be handling this far better. But there may be information I am not aware of. The snippets of his shooting certainly looks better now than a month ago.

Agree. I think that's part of the problem. These days it seems that the only way to curtail media speculation, etc. is to either come completely clean or operate in total secrecy (out of sight, out of mind). All these snippets do is keep the media speculating.

And if they are going to red shirt him, why not just do that? Even if he were 100% healthy and ready now, would they put him in? They are in a tight playoff hunt now.

This is true. Sixers fans could then put him the "wait 'til next year" category like they did with Embiid and Simmons.

And Noel.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

The Sixers are currently 32-26 and sitting in the 7th spot for the EC playoffs. Seems like they've figured out how to win without Fultz in the lineup. So, there would be no real pressure on him either.

Which is really a good thing in my opinion. I think it's better to let them be rookies still growing up. When I started a new career in 1991 - It took me awhile to learn my position and now I have trained others and am considered one the best. Let them be kids and enjoy their youth. I know that they are in sports and are expected to behave like adults, but they still have to develop and grow up a little first.

That being said - If the Lakers were to go 4-1 two or three more times in a row, the Lakers have a slim chance of making the playoffs. I do NOT believe they will make it, but just getting to 35 wins would accomplish what Magic Johnson wants - For the Lakers to be an attractive market in the free agency.

 

[tlance]

I disagree to a point. Both Lonzo and Fultz were excellent shooters at every level they have played at prior to the NBA. So it's not as if either of them came in to the league with a history of not being good shooters.

Lonzo has the same basic form, but appears to have learned how to get his shot off in the NBA. He doesn't have quite as big a "loop" in his shot so he is releasing it quicker. The only real question re: Lonzo's shot was whether he would have to remake his shot or if he could just make an adjustment. He looks like he has adjusted.

For whatever reason, it looks like the Sixers have tried to remake Fultz's shot even though, from what I remember of seeing him in college, his shot was fine.

I don't think he needs to worry so much about his shot at this time, the Sixers don't need him to score, so I think he can play without needing to worry as much about his shot.

Just like Lonzo, he has the ability to contribute in other ways so there isn't as much pressure on him to score while he figures it out. If it really is mental, maybe playing, but not worrying about scoring is just what he needs?

That is just it though.

Lonzo could survive in the NBA without ever being even an average shooter. His skill set easily allows him to contribute without shooting. Fultz is a scorer supposed to be able to score at all 3 levels. If he can only score at the rim, he literally might not be an NBA player. He isn't the create for others type of player.

 

[larryjohn]

That is just it though.
Lonzo could survive in the NBA without ever being even an average shooter. His skill set easily allows him to contribute without shooting. Fultz is a scorer supposed to be able to score at all 3 levels. If he can only score at the rim, he literally might not be an NBA player. He isn't the create for others type of player.

Lonzo -- both in college & NBA -- has shown no ability to hit a midrange shot. He will be competent shooting open 3s -- but that is all he has shown. (and layups)

Fultz appeared to have a complete shooting game in college. He should do whatever is necessary to get back to it. (not sure if playing would help or not)

 

[flyerhawk]

That is just it though.

Lonzo could survive in the NBA without ever being even an average shooter. His skill set easily allows him to contribute without shooting. Fultz is a scorer supposed to be able to score at all 3 levels. If he can only score at the rim, he literally might not be an NBA player. He isn't the create for others type of player.

Well it does look like Markelle's form is coming back in the brief snippets we are seeing..


Obviously these are just little snippets but his whole demeanor looks very different and his shot looks like an actual NBA shot. Still not much video of him shooting 3s which I guess isn't shocking given how this bizarre process is playing out.

 

[shopson67]

Lonzo -- both in college & NBA -- has shown no ability to hit a midrange shot. He will be competent shooting open 3s -- but that is all he has shown. (and layups)

Fultz appeared to have a complete shooting game in college. He should do whatever is necessary to get back to it. (not sure if playing would help or not)

Lonzo's game isn't about the midrange. He's always looking to set up someone else. If the lane is open, he'll take the layup. If left open, he'll take the 3 to space the floor. He just isn't looking to be a main scorer, and midrange shots can be very inefficient. He's a true point, whereas Fultz is an undersized shooting guard or combo guard. Fultz just needs time and repetition to work that shot back into form. Hopefully he gets there.

 

[Sparhawk]

Lonzo's game isn't about the midrange. He's always looking to set up someone else. If the lane is open, he'll take the layup. If left open, he'll take the 3 to space the floor. He just isn't looking to be a main scorer, and midrange shots can be very inefficient. He's a true point, whereas Fultz is an undersized shooting guard or combo guard. Fultz just needs time and repetition to work that shot back into form. Hopefully he gets there.

How are you defining 'undersized'?
Just by height?
Are you taking into account wingspan?

Is Draymond an undersized C?

 

[trojanfan12]

Lonzo -- both in college & NBA -- has shown no ability to hit a midrange shot. He will be competent shooting open 3s -- but that is all he has shown. (and layups)

Fultz appeared to have a complete shooting game in college. He should do whatever is necessary to get back to it. (not sure if playing would help or not)

I don't know if Lonzo not shooting midrange is by design, or because he can't shoot it.

At UCLA and since he's been in the NBA, he just doesn't seem to shoot it. So there isn't enough of a sample size to know if he can't shoot it or just doesn't.

Personally, I lean towards "just doesn't" because with the emphasis that is placed on the 3 today, a lot of guys don't really shoot midrange as much as they used to.

As others have pointed out, the 3 is now seen as a better shot because, while it's still a less efficient shot as far as percentages, it's made up for by the floor spacing and extra point given when it goes in.

 

[flyerhawk]

Lonzo's game isn't about the midrange. He's always looking to set up someone else. If the lane is open, he'll take the layup. If left open, he'll take the 3 to space the floor. He just isn't looking to be a main scorer, and midrange shots can be very inefficient. He's a true point, whereas Fultz is an undersized shooting guard or combo guard. Fultz just needs time and repetition to work that shot back into form. Hopefully he gets there.

Fultz 6'4" or 6'5" depending on who you listen to. I can think of more than a few 2 guards that excelled at that height.

For the Sixers it's less of an issue because he would likely be put on the other team's point to defend anyway. If Simmons is put on a back court guy it is more likely to be the 2.

 

[larryjohn]

I don't know if Lonzo not shooting midrange is by design, or because he can't shoot it.
At UCLA and since he's been in the NBA, he just doesn't seem to shoot it. So there isn't enough of a sample size to know if he can't shoot it or just doesn't.
Personally, I lean towards "just doesn't" because with the emphasis that is placed on the 3 today, a lot of guys don't really shoot midrange as much as they used to.
As others have pointed out, the 3 is now seen as a better shot because, while it's still a less efficient shot as far as percentages, it's made up for by the floor spacing and extra point given when it goes in.

A poor mid-range shooting game could be a result of his poor shooting form. If he has opportunity to get his feet set and he has spacing -- he can make a 3. He can make layups and shots at the rim. But the pull-up on the move is harder with an odd shooting technique.

I remember a stat from last year at UCLA. Going into the tournament -- UCLA had played about 23 games -- Lonzo had shot 11 mid-range shots -- and made 2.

I do think mid-range shot is important for pick & roll guards. Look at how important it is for Kyrie & Chris Paul. Even Curry & Harden & Wall & Westbrook shoot a lot of 15 footers -- and their accuracy from there is important. For example, in Curry's last 2 games, he is 6-10 from mid-range.

 

[Mecca]

Fultz 6'4" or 6'5" depending on who you listen to. I can think of more than a few 2 guards that excelled at that height.

For the Sixers it's less of an issue because he would likely be put on the other team's point to defend anyway. If Simmons is put on a back court guy it is more likely to be the 2.

How are you defining 'undersized'?
Just by height?
Are you taking into account wingspan?

Is Draymond an undersized C?

Yes, Draymond is a undersized Center.

McCollum is a undersized SG.

Prototypical SG's look more like Klay Thompson, Derozan than Fultz.

Those guys are what, 6'6-6'7?

Markelle looks smaller than Wade and a whole lot less athletic.

He's smaller than Booker and not in the same league as a shooter right now.

So, he'd fall into that classification...imo

He's Lou Will, Kemba, CJ combo guard territory, in a pg's body.

Wingspan totally matters too.

But, can sometimes be overcome like Paul Milsap.

Sometimes not.

*See Blake and his Trex arms

But, like with everything else, things change.

Talent can overcome a lack of....everything, including height.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yes, Draymond is a undersized Center.

McCollum is a undersized SG.

Prototypical SG's look more like Klay Thompson, Derozan than Fultz.

Those guys are what, 6'6-6'7?

Markelle looks smaller than Wade and a whole lot less athletic.

He's smaller than Booker and not in the same league as a shooter right now.

So, he'd fall into that classification...imo

He's Lou Will, Kemba, CJ combo guard territory, in a pg's body.

Wingspan totally matter too.

*See Blake and his Trex arms

I haven't watched enough Fultz to really know how athletic he is. Clearly NBA scouts thought he was pretty darn athletic given he was drafted No. 1. Everything I read about him was that he was an all-purpose guy. He could shoot(obviously that remains to be seen), he could drive to the hoop and he could D up with either guard. Supposedly he has the same wingspan(7'0") as Jayson Tatum who is 6'8"

Fultz is most definitely more of a combo guard than a 2. And for the Sixers I would imagine that they saw him more as a primary point guard on defense and off the ball 2 on offense.

I was there was more game film on him to monitor. But random college clips and some clearly broken performances to start the season leave him as a huge enigma.

 

[Mecca]

]

I haven't watched enough Fultz to really know how athletic he is. Clearly NBA scouts thought he was pretty darn athletic given he was drafted No. 1. Everything I read about him was that he was an all-purpose guy. He could shoot(obviously that remains to be seen), he could drive to the hoop and he could D up with either guard. Supposedly he has the same wingspan(7'0") as Jayson Tatum who is 6'8"

Fultz is most definitely more of a combo guard than a 2. And for the Sixers I would imagine that they saw him more as a primary point guard on defense and off the ball 2 on offense.

I was there was more game film on him to monitor. But random college clips and some clearly broken performances to start the season leave him as a huge enigma.

I watched him a bit in College.

He's no stiff, sorry if that is how my statement came across.

But, he's no athletic wonder , like Wade was when he entered the League.

No shame in that because Wade is a future HOFer.

I honestly see Markelle as Dame-ish.

He CAN create.

But, they need him to knock down shots because you have a 6'10 point forward who is GIFTED.

 

[flyerhawk]

]

I watched him a bit in College.

He's no stiff, sorry if that is how my statement came across.

But, he's no athletic wonder , like Wade was when he entered the League.

No shame in that because Wade is a future HOFer.

I honestly see Markelle as Dame-ish.

He CAN create.

But, they need him to knock down shots because you have a 6'10 point forward who is GIFTED.

Oh don't get me wrong. Fultz MUST develop an outside shot. Otherwise he is just a better version of TJ McConnell. He was rated higher than Ball BECAUSE he had a good college shot. If he never develops that, he will be an absolute bust.

And I agree that he doesn't have Wade's athleticism when he was a young pup. But that is a pretty high bar.

 

[knowyourenemy]

Why are we spending so much time talking about Ball and Fultz? There are so many rookies having great seasons. Why focus on the disappointments?

 

[trojanfan12]

A poor mid-range shooting game could be a result of his poor shooting form. If he has opportunity to get his feet set and he has spacing -- he can make a 3. He can make layups and shots at the rim. But the pull-up on the move is harder with an odd shooting technique.

Great point. Hadn't thought of that. That would definitely explain the lack of midrange shot attempts.

 

[wildturkey]

A poor mid-range shooting game could be a result of his poor shooting form. If he has opportunity to get his feet set and he has spacing -- he can make a 3. He can make layups and shots at the rim. But the pull-up on the move is harder with an odd shooting technique.

I remember a stat from last year at UCLA. Going into the tournament -- UCLA had played about 23 games -- Lonzo had shot 11 mid-range shots -- and made 2.

I do think mid-range shot is important for pick & roll guards. Look at how important it is for Kyrie & Chris Paul. Even Curry & Harden & Wall & Westbrook shoot a lot of 15 footers -- and their accuracy from there is important. For example, in Curry's last 2 games, he is 6-10 from mid-range.

Mid-range is definitely a tool the best PGs seem to have. It's a shot to pull out when everything breaks down or just to keep defenses on their toes after you've probed the defense early in the possession. Catch them sleeping a couple of times and they'll stay glued to you, which is what you want because you don't want them clogging up space elsewhere bottling up the offense. At the very least, every great PG needs a floater that they can release just a step past the FT line