The NBA rookies Thread

[Sparhawk]

Not true. Few of my bro's on the 'inside' told me what they know. DSJ is the rookie that means the most to his team....thems the facts.

WRONG

 

[trojanfan12]

Not true. Few of my bro's on the 'inside' told me what they know. DSJ is the rookie that means the most to his team....thems the facts.

This actually brings up an interesting point similar to the MVP discussion every year.

Is the MVP the best player or the guy who means the most to his team?

Same with ROY. I don't think DSJ is the best rookie, but he may very well mean the most to his team.

For example, Simmons looks to be a better player than DSJ. But I'd wager that given the emergence of some of their other players, especially Embiid, the Sixers would fare batter without him than Dallas would without DSJ.

 

[handicappers]

This actually brings up an interesting point similar to the MVP discussion every year.

Is the MVP the best player or the guy who means the most to his team?

Same with ROY. I don't think DSJ is the best rookie, but he may very well mean the most to his team.

For example, Simmons looks to be a better player than DSJ. But I'd wager that given the emergence of some of their other players, especially Embiid, the Sixers would fare batter without him than Dallas would without DSJ.

Yes

DSJ plays on the worst Mavs team around here since Brad Davis was slingin' the rock. Dwight Powell is no Embiid. lol

 

[flyerhawk]

Not true. Few of my bro's on the 'inside' told me what they know. DSJ is the rookie that means the most to his team....thems the facts.

He means the most for the worst team in basketball? Well sure, ok I guess.

 

[shopson67]

Yes

DSJ plays on the worst Mavs team around here since Brad Davis was slingin' the rock. Dwight Powell is no Embiid. lol

Negative win shares. Logic fail.

Tatum: 5.4
Simmons: 5.0
Mitchell: 3.1
Kuzma: 2.6
Markkanen: 2.6
Ball: 1.0
DSJ: -.7

By the way, somehow Dwight Powell is leading the NBA in offensive rating.

 

[flyerhawk]

This actually brings up an interesting point similar to the MVP discussion every year.

Is the MVP the best player or the guy who means the most to his team?

Same with ROY. I don't think DSJ is the best rookie, but he may very well mean the most to his team.

For example, Simmons looks to be a better player than DSJ. But I'd wager that given the emergence of some of their other players, especially Embiid, the Sixers would fare batter without him than Dallas would without DSJ.

The Mavs have the worst record in basketball. How much worse would they be without DSJ?

That argument makes some sense with Donovan Mitchell as he is the offensive sparkplug that team desperately needs. Not so much with DSJ.

 

[handicappers]

The Mavs have the worst record in basketball. How much worse would they be without DSJ?

That argument makes some sense with Donovan Mitchell as he is the offensive sparkplug that team desperately needs. Not so much with DSJ.

Wrong, he is the first and only piece of the Mavs moving forward, post Nowitzki. There will be a lottery pick again this upcoming off season and a big name FA this off season. Mavs future doesn't exist without DSJ...the leading ROY candidate.

 

[Mecca]

This actually brings up an interesting point similar to the MVP discussion every year.

Is the MVP the best player or the guy who means the most to his team?

Same with ROY. I don't think DSJ is the best rookie, but he may very well mean the most to his team.

For example, Simmons looks to be a better player than DSJ. But I'd wager that given the emergence of some of their other players, especially Embiid, the Sixers would fare batter without him than Dallas would without DSJ.

Replace DSJ with Kuzma or Mitchell and yes.

Unless you think the Mavs would have gone Cleveland Browns without him, his value isn't quite significant enough to the team, if measured in wins and loses.

But, I'm splitting hairs because I know you are just using him as a example.

Your basic premise is solid.

So, just skip all the shit I said before and just go with " I agree ".

Excellent comparison with the MVP vs. Best Player debate.

 

[flyerhawk]

Wrong, he is the first and only piece of the Mavs moving forward, post Nowitzki. There will be a lottery pick again this upcoming off season and a big name FA this off season. Mavs future doesn't exist without DSJ...the leading ROY candidate.

You said I was wrong and then brought up a bunch of stuff about the future which has nothing to do with what I said.

I would imagine that Mavs are excited about having DSJ. As the Jazz are about Mitchell. As the Sixers are about Simmons. As the Celtics are about Tatum. I don't think factors into the voting.

 

[trojanfan12]

The Mavs have the worst record in basketball. How much worse would they be without DSJ?

That argument makes some sense with Donovan Mitchell as he is the offensive sparkplug that team desperately needs. Not so much with DSJ.

The problem with the team records argument is that 1 player doesn't have a whole lot of control over how good the rest of the roster is, unless that player is a generational type talent like Lebron.

The Mavs have arguably the least talented roster in the league supporting a rookie who seems to be their 1st, 2nd, 3rd and maybe 4th option.

As bad as the Mavs are with DSJ, they'd likely be far worse without him. We may be talking single digit wins level bad.

I agree that it's highly unlikely he wins ROY. Like most here, I think it will come down to Simmons/Mitchell unless someone else in the convo just goes out of their mind the rest of the way. But that doesn't mean that a case can't be made for him.

 

[flyerhawk]

The problem with the team records argument is that 1 player doesn't have a whole lot of control over how good the rest of the roster is, unless that player is a generational type talent like Lebron.

The Mavs have arguably the least talented roster in the league supporting a rookie who seems to be their 1st, 2nd, 3rd and maybe 4th option.

As bad as the Mavs are with DSJ, they'd likely be far worse without him. We may be talking single digit wins level bad.

Well Harrison Barnes leads the team in scoring so I'd say he's one of the top options as well.

I think just about every team with a top rookie could make a similar argument. Look at Boston. Tatum's absurdly high shooting percentage drops down and the Celtics start to look really average. Where would the Sixers be without Simmons? No way the Jazz would be making a playoff run without Mitchell.

I agree that it's highly unlikely he wins ROY. Like most here, I think it will come down to Simmons/Mitchell unless someone else in the convo just goes out of their mind the rest of the way. But that doesn't mean that a case can't be made for him.

Yeah barring something really really strange happening, it is going to be Simmons or Mitchell.

 

[wildturkey]

Rookie/Soph game was trash. Not that any of them are exactly great, but there sometimes better and more competitive than the actual ASG. This one was not. Team USA checked out as soon as the ball was tipped.

 

[trojanfan12]

Well Harrison Barnes leads the team in scoring so I'd say he's one of the top options as well.

So DSJ is only the 1st, 2nd and 3rd option. lol

I think just about every team with a top rookie could make a similar argument. Look at Boston. Tatum's absurdly high shooting percentage drops down and the Celtics start to look really average. Where would the Sixers be without Simmons? No way the Jazz would be making a playoff run without Mitchell.

True to a point. Boston may just have been the result of heading into the All-Star break and taking their foot off the gas a little.

Sixers without Simmons are probably still fairly close to where they are now as long as Embiid stays healthy.

Agree on the Jazz.

Yeah barring something really really strange happening, it is going to be Simmons or Mitchell.

Yeah, I think it would take injury or having their stats just "drop off the cliff" plus someone like Kuzma or Tatum looking like the next MJ for it to be anyone but one of them.

 

[shopson67]

The problem with the team records argument is that 1 player doesn't have a whole lot of control over how good the rest of the roster is, unless that player is a generational type talent like Lebron.

However, arguments can be made for other ROY candidates being a generational type talent, especially Simmons. That would seem to strongly devalue DSJ's ROY chances. Mitchell isn't doing enough defensively to unseat Simmons IMO. Of course, the redshirt should be more prepared to play in the league, but he's eligible regardless.

BTW, I didn't use team records; I used win shares and DSJ is not showing well there either.

 

[Sparhawk]

So, uh, we all recognize that we are trying to logically deal with a poor trolling attempt, yes???

 

[Mecca]

So, uh, we all recognize that we are trying to logically deal with a poor trolling attempt, yes???

That's why I stopped responding.

Either it's trolling or Dude is full on tard.

 

[tlance]

I know he's got no chance......but he's doing a lot for a crappy team. He's never even MENTIONED most of the time when ROY is discussed, despite his numbers

Because the top 2 are leaps and bounds ahead of the field. No point in seriously discussing anybody beyond them.

But yeah, DSJ is doing pretty well too.

 

[flyerhawk]

Because the top 2 are leaps and bounds ahead of the field. No point in seriously discussing anybody beyond them.

But yeah, DSJ is doing pretty well too.

yeah. It's been a very strong rookie class. Probably 4 or 5 guys that would have been RoY last year.

 

[flyerhawk]

Ben Simmons came back from the ASG break roaring. 32 points 11 assists 7 rebounds a block and a steal.

 

[Sparhawk]

Ben Simmons came back from the ASG break roaring. 32 points 11 assists 7 rebounds a block and a steal.

Pointzzzz!!!