Game Thread: T-Day: Vikings @ Lions

[bt08]

Blaming the defense for any of this season's failures is simply nonsensical. The Vikings offense consists of the league worst #32 rushing attack by a wide margin of 2.7 ypc and 70 fewer total yards to the #31 Giants' 3.4 ypc. Their passing attack isn't much better at just #25, with a league worst total offense, and just #22 in scoring O. Let's not forget that they had arguably the worst kicking game in the league before cutting Walsh after 9 games after he was missing easy FGs/PATs left and right, and even botched a kickoff.

Meanwhile, the D is #3 in total defense, #2 in points allowed, #3 in passing, and #12 in rushing. Basically, this team is 6-5 with rapidly dissipating playoff hopes despite having the #2 D in points allowed. Yet, you're talking about how the D took a dump in a game where they held Detroit to 13 right up until the end of the game, and the offense turning it over deep in their own territory to give the Lions an easy game ending FG?

Just look at how many points the O put up in the losses: Philly 10-21, Chicago 10-20, Detroit 16-22, Washington 20-26, Detroit 13-16. They didn't even score 3 full TD/PATs worth of points in a single game, and put up sub 14 point games in three of them. The only loss where the offense was respectable was in Washington, but they didn't do anything outside of the second quarter. Now compare that with their wins, where the Vikes scored 22+ in all but 1 of their games where they scored 17 against Green Bay; the offense was actually giving the defense a chance to win games at that point.

This is the NFL in 2016, dude. When your offense is essentially THE worst in the league (injuries or not), no defense is going to carry you to anywhere near a Superbowl title aside from stumbling on a legendary 1985 Bears/2000 Ravens shutdown D and a great kicking game.

relax dude, bottom line is the D has had more than its share of opportunities in both Detroit games to close it out, and in both cases they did not..period. They may be the best part of this team but they aren't that good.

 

[GhostOfPoverty]

relax dude, bottom line is the D has had more than its share of opportunities in both Detroit games to close it out, and in both cases they did not..period. They may be the best part of this team but they aren't that good.

Uh.... just because I proved your idea that the D is a noteworthy problem on this team doesn't mean I'm not "calm". God forbid you use real evidence to support your arguments rather than just saying "herp derp, the D didn't close the games out."

Again, to this point, the Vikings have the #3 total defense, and are #2 in points allowed (by tar the most important defensive stat). If you are going to nit pick about the D when it's top 2 in the league while the offense is dead last at #32 in the league, then you don't know shit about football, sorry. Like this last Lions game - as you put it, you say our D "shit the bed" by giving up the game tying FG close to the end.

But look at the facts - up until that point, they had held Detroit to 10 all game long despite the offense constantly putting them in shitty positions the entire game, and they still held them to a FG to give our O the chance to finish the job with a FG in the final two minutes. Then Bradford came out and gift wrapped Detroit the win by tossing a pick deep in Vikings territory, giving the D zero chance to stop the Lions from bootimg a fairly short game winning FG. Bitching about the D when they gave up 13 points for all intents and purposes makes you sound like a child whining about his favorite NFL team losing. I guess it's always the D's fault unless they don't shut teams out.

 

[GhostOfPoverty]

AP is set to make $18 million with $6 million as a roster bonus next season, so dropping him should save them at least $12 mil in cap space. Either that or he definitely needs to restructure. As much as I enjoyed watching AP tear it up when he was in his prime, it is pretty evident that making him the top paid back in the league for the past 7 years or so was a terrible move by the front office. Imagine if they had traded him for a boatload when he was still in his 20's and used all that cash and whatever draft picks to fortify the team in other ways while having a less spendy RB - would have been much more likely to be a winning formula based on how the NFL has been a heavily passing based game for 15+ years now.

 

[bt08]

Uh.... just because I proved your idea that the D is a noteworthy problem on this team doesn't mean I'm not "calm". God forbid you use real evidence to support your arguments rather than just saying "herp derp, the D didn't close the games out."

Again, to this point, the Vikings have the #3 total defense, and are #2 in points allowed (by tar the most important defensive stat). If you are going to nit pick about the D when it's top 2 in the league while the offense is dead last at #32 in the league, then you don't know shit about football, sorry. Like this last Lions game - as you put it, you say our D "shit the bed" by giving up the game tying FG close to the end.

But look at the facts - up until that point, they had held Detroit to 10 all game long despite the offense constantly putting them in shitty positions the entire game, and they still held them to a FG to give our O the chance to finish the job with a FG in the final two minutes. Then Bradford came out and gift wrapped Detroit the win by tossing a pick deep in Vikings territory, giving the D zero chance to stop the Lions from bootimg a fairly short game winning FG. Bitching about the D when they gave up 13 points for all intents and purposes makes you sound like a child whining about his favorite NFL team losing. I guess it's always the D's fault unless they don't shut teams out.

I am not arguing, you're missing my point. No question the O SUCKS. My point was and is that in both Lions games the D had a chance to end the game and in both cases they shit the bed. I don't care where they rank statistically, that means nothing to me.

 

[PnkPanther]

AP is set to make $18 million with $6 million as a roster bonus next season, so dropping him should save them at least $12 mil in cap space. Either that or he definitely needs to restructure. As much as I enjoyed watching AP tear it up when he was in his prime, it is pretty evident that making him the top paid back in the league for the past 7 years or so was a terrible move by the front office. Imagine if they had traded him for a boatload when he was still in his 20's and used all that cash and whatever draft picks to fortify the team in other ways while having a less spendy RB - would have been much more likely to be a winning formula based on how the NFL has been a heavily passing based game for 15+ years now.

Cut him before roster bonus comes into play, full 18 million off the books. There is no dead money by cutting him

 

[GhostOfPoverty]

I am not arguing, you're missing my point. No question the O SUCKS. My point was and is that in both Lions games the D had a chance to end the game and in both cases they shit the bed. I don't care where they rank statistically, that means nothing to me.

I understand your point... I just think being upset with the defense for any part in the Detroit Thanksgiving loss makes no sense. It's tough to say a defense "shit the bed" anytime they give up fewer than 14 points (I think we can all agree the final 3 Detroit points were 100% the fault of the offense).

Had they shut Detroit out for the entire game and then blown a 13 point lead in the final two Lions drives, I'd agree with being pissed about the D as well as our offense. That's not what happened though- ulitmately, our defense played great the entire game, and just when it looked like they would have a complete meltdown at the end, they at least held Detroit to a tying FG instead of a go-ahead TD. All the O had to do was close it out with a game ending FG of their own in the final 2 minutes of play, or at least not turn it over so we could take it to OT. But no, they responded by promptly handing Detroit the ball deep in Vikings territory for the loss.


Cliffs - I'll agree with you about the D playing a role in some of the losses, but the Thanksgiving loss was squarely on the offense. Though the D is very good, they are still about 3 shut down starters away from making us title contenders with a bottom feeder offense.

 

[GhostOfPoverty]

Cut him before roster bonus comes into play, full 18 million off the books. There is no dead money by cutting him

Yeah... time to move on from AP. The only way keeping him would make any sense is if he would agree to a paycut down to about 1/3 of what he is due to make while still drafting/signing an apparent future replacement for him. They need to build next year's offense primarily around Bradford/Teddy with the idea of a non-MVP AP at RB and any old school AP performances just being gravy. Building the offense around an RB has simply not worked in the NFL in dacades, the Vikings/AP being perhaps the most glaring example of that.

 

[bt08]

Yeah... time to move on from AP. The only way keeping him would make any sense is if he would agree to a paycut down to about 1/3 of what he is due to make while still drafting/signing an apparent future replacement for him. They need to build next year's offense primarily around Bradford/Teddy with the idea of a non-MVP AP at RB and any old school AP performances just being gravy. Building the offense around an RB has simply not worked in the NFL in dacades, the Vikings/AP being perhaps the most glaring example of that.

time for guys like Treadwell to step up. I mean he can't beat out Charles f-in Johnson for playing time

 

[bt08]

I understand your point... I just think being upset with the defense for any part in the Detroit Thanksgiving loss makes no sense. It's tough to say a defense "shit the bed" anytime they give up fewer than 14 points (I think we can all agree the final 3 Detroit points were 100% the fault of the offense).

Had they shut Detroit out for the entire game and then blown a 13 point lead in the final two Lions drives, I'd agree with being pissed about the D as well as our offense. That's not what happened though- ulitmately, our defense played great the entire game, and just when it looked like they would have a complete meltdown at the end, they at least held Detroit to a tying FG instead of a go-ahead TD. All the O had to do was close it out with a game ending FG of their own in the final 2 minutes of play, or at least not turn it over so we could take it to OT. But no, they responded by promptly handing Detroit the ball deep in Vikings territory for the loss.


Cliffs - I'll agree with you about the D playing a role in some of the losses, but the Thanksgiving loss was squarely on the offense. Though the D is very good, they are still about 3 shut down starters away from making us title contenders with a bottom feeder offense.

taking about end of the game D performance against Detriot

game 1-leading with 23 seconds to go, Det has ball at the 25 with no time outs, D allows big play down the middle, results in tying FG, in OT Detriot gets balls and goes right down field for 6, Game over
Game 2-Leading with under 5 mins to go, Locke pins em inside the 5 yet D allows long drive resulting in tying FG

It just isn't a great D, good..OK, far from great