Paul George to Celtics??

[tlance]

ESPN is reporting this morning that there has been a deal discussed between the Cavs, Nuggets and Pacers.
ESPN says that Cleveland gets Farried and George, Cleveland sends Farried and Love to Denver and the Pacers get a bunch of picks.

Personally, I can't see this as beneficial at all to Indy. If Cleveland is giving them 1st round picks, they would be in the late 20s and basically worthless. If the Nuggets are giving them the same, those picks would be in the teens, and again they're worthless.

The supposed deal with the Celtics would be the best for the Pacers. They'd be getting at least two lottery picks and a couple of 'decent' players. The only team that benefits from the 3 team deal is Cleveland.

My other question is this........Who's making this "Deal" for Cleveland? LeBron? They don't have a GM right now.

Not true.

The first pick the Cavs are able to deal is 2021. By then, they could be back to the top of the lottery if they go all in now.

If I were a rival GM, I would view those 2021 and beyond Cavs picks as high potential assets. Right now, the Cavs position is not that far off where the Nets were when Ainge fleeced them. Yes, they are much better, but if LeBron leaves, everything comes tumbling down. The others won't be far behind.

Like I said earlier, 2021 and 2023 picks could be extremely valuable. If I am the Pacers, I would want those picks a lot more than anything Denver could give.

 

[tlance]

If it's not the BRK picks, then meh...

Brooklyn pick is worth a lot more than 1 year of george. Only way they can consider paying that price is if George agrees to an extension beforehand.

 

[flyerhawk]

They aren't. Boston wouldn't trade the #3 pick for Jimmy Butler and he was under team control for two years. Zero chance they give up multiple picks for a one year rental.

Yeah I would be pretty shocked if they would trade one of those assets for the BRK pick much less another lottery pick.

IMO, the Celtics screwed the pooch on the Jimmy Butler move. They overvalued their #3 pick.

 

[Sparhawk]

IMO, the Celtics screwed the pooch on the Jimmy Butler move. They overvalued their #3 pick.

What else is new?

How much would Jaylen Brown and Tatum develop if they kept them and signed PG/GH???

 

[tlance]

Yeah I would be pretty shocked if they would trade one of those assets for the BRK pick much less another lottery pick.

IMO, the Celtics screwed the pooch on the Jimmy Butler move. They overvalued their #3 pick.

I think it may be more that they don't value Butler that highly. They think Brown can eventually Be a very similar player to what butler is today.

also, wouldn't that deal have prevented them from getting a free agent? They have a pretty good shot at either Heyward or Griffin. If they can land one, I think Hayward + Tatum is probably better than Butler. Especially if they can then flip Tatum + contracts for George and sign him to an extension like the rumors suggest.

 

[flyerhawk]

I think it may be more that they don't value Butler that highly. They think Brown can eventually Be a very similar player to what butler is today.

also, wouldn't that deal have prevented them from getting a free agent? They have a pretty good shot at either Heyward or Griffin. If they can land one, I think Hayward + Tatum is probably better than Butler. Especially if they can then flip Tatum + contracts for George and sign him to an extension like the rumors suggest.

Well I guess we will find out.

And I guess it also depends on whether they are serious about contending this year. If they aren't then making a move for Butler wouldn't make much sense.

 

[trojanfan12]

ESPN is reporting this morning that there has been a deal discussed between the Cavs, Nuggets and Pacers.
ESPN says that Cleveland gets Farried and George, Cleveland sends Farried and Love to Denver and the Pacers get a bunch of picks.

Personally, I can't see this as beneficial at all to Indy. If Cleveland is giving them 1st round picks, they would be in the late 20s and basically worthless. If the Nuggets are giving them the same, those picks would be in the teens, and again they're worthless.

The supposed deal with the Celtics would be the best for the Pacers. They'd be getting at least two lottery picks and a couple of 'decent' players. The only team that benefits from the 3 team deal is Cleveland.

My other question is this........Who's making this "Deal" for Cleveland? LeBron? They don't have a GM right now.

The problem for the Celtics is that, if I understand the situation correctly, they will want PG to sign an extension as part of the deal, which he has said he's not going to do. So they risk giving up valuable assets for a 1 year rental.

The Cavs don't mind bringing in a 1 year rental. Their current roster can't beat the Warriors and they are looking at potentially having to blow it up after next year anyway. So their best off-season move would be to bring in PG-13 to try and get 1 last title run out of Lebron and hope that maybe he and PG-13 decide to stick around a little longer.

If they do decide to stick around...great. They get to continue making runs for a couple more years. If they don't...at least they get one more shot before starting over.

 

[knowyourenemy]

Not true.

The first pick the Cavs are able to deal is 2021. By then, they could be back to the top of the lottery if they go all in now.

If I were a rival GM, I would view those 2021 and beyond Cavs picks as high potential assets. Right now, the Cavs position is not that far off where the Nets were when Ainge fleeced them. Yes, they are much better, but if LeBron leaves, everything comes tumbling down. The others won't be far behind.

Like I said earlier, 2021 and 2023 picks could be extremely valuable. If I am the Pacers, I would want those picks a lot more than anything Denver could give.

Cleveland could come crashing down but they also could: (1) retain LeBron or (2) spend a bunch of money to remain mildly competitive, even in LeBron's absence. In which case, you're valuing a #15-20 pick in 2021/2023 as more valuable than a #15-20 pick in 2018/2020. And that's assuming Denver ends up in the #15-20 range with Love. Sure, with Love they should theoretically be better. Even with Love, the Timberwolves ended up drafting: #6 in 2009, #4 in 2010, #2 in 2011, #10 in 2012 (except they traded it long beforehand), #9 in 2013, and #13 in 2014. He doesn't move the needle that much -- and depending on what they give up, they could be slightly worse with Love if they were to trade for him.

 

[Sparhawk]

The problem for the Celtics is that, if I understand the situation correctly, they will want PG to sign an extension as part of the deal, which he has said he's not going to do. So they risk giving up valuable assets for a 1 year rental.

It doesn't make sense that PG would only go to BOS for one season and only if HG signs....

Regardless of what he has said about 'only' playing for the Lakers, I would have to imagine any such deal involves a S&T extension.

 

[tlance]

Cleveland could come crashing down but they also could: (1) retain LeBron or (2) spend a bunch of money to remain mildly competitive, even in LeBron's absence. In which case, you're valuing a #15-20 pick in 2021/2023 as more valuable than a #15-20 pick in 2018/2020. And that's assuming Denver ends up in the #15-20 range with Love. Sure, with Love they should theoretically be better. Even with Love, the Timberwolves ended up drafting: #6 in 2009, #4 in 2010, #2 in 2011, #10 in 2012 (except they traded it long beforehand), #9 in 2013, and #13 in 2014. He doesn't move the needle that much -- and depending on what they give up, they could be slightly worse with Love if they were to trade for him.

The Nuggets almost made the playoffs this year. Love isn't great, but he probably gets them in. If not, they are one of the last two lottery teams out.

I would MUCH prefer the Cavs picks because they have the potential to be high picks. Yes, it is a gamble. given what we know today, there seems to be a pretty good chance the LeBron leaves next off season. Kyrie has hinted at seeking trade if that happens. They have traded away most of their draft picks. Cavs could very quickly be left with nothing, and they are not exactly a free agent destination.

It would be a gamble worth taking, IMO.

 

[trojanfan12]

It doesn't make sense that PG would only go to BOS for one season and only if HG signs....

Regardless of what he has said about 'only' playing for the Lakers, I would have to imagine any such deal involves a S&T extension.

I agree. That's why I don't see the Celtics deal getting done. From what I've read, George has been pretty adamant about not signing an extension.

Of course that could change, especially if the reports that he likes Hayward are true. But most of the info. that's out there seems to point to him not being willing to sign an extension.

 

[tlance]

It doesn't make sense that PG would only go to BOS for one season and only if HG signs....

Regardless of what he has said about 'only' playing for the Lakers, I would have to imagine any such deal involves a S&T extension.

Which means Boston's presence in the discussion probably only serves to drive the price up for Cleveland. Like you, I am skeptical that PG would sign the necessary extension.

 

[Sparhawk]

I agree. That's why I don't see the Celtics deal getting done. From what I've read, George has been pretty adamant about not signing an extension.

Of course that could change, especially if the reports that he likes Hayward are true. But most of the info. that's out there seems to point to him not being willing to sign an extension.

Which means Boston's presence in the discussion probably only serves to drive the price up for Cleveland. Like you, I am skeptical that PG would sign the necessary extension.

But, wasn't PG talking about extending with IND?

He stated in February that he wants to play on a winning team.
http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...ge-extension-want-play-winning-team/98051748/

Is there a link/source for where he states he would not sign an extension for CLE/BOS?

 

[knowyourenemy]

The Nuggets almost made the playoffs this year. Love isn't great, but he probably gets them in. If not, they are one of the last two lottery teams out.

I would MUCH prefer the Cavs picks because they have the potential to be high picks. Yes, it is a gamble. given what we know today, there seems to be a pretty good chance the LeBron leaves next off season. Kyrie has hinted at seeking trade if that happens. They have traded away most of their draft picks. Cavs could very quickly be left with nothing, and they are not exactly a free agent destination.

It would be a gamble worth taking, IMO.

Except, if they pull off a trade for Paul George, it makes them better next season, gives them a chance to re-sign George and LeBron, and, alternatively, gives them a chance to sign a 2018 free agent and then extend LeBron. The trade for George, itself, should increase his chances of staying.

 

[trojanfan12]

The Nuggets almost made the playoffs this year. Love isn't great, but he probably gets them in. If not, they are one of the last two lottery teams out.

I would MUCH prefer the Cavs picks because they have the potential to be high picks. Yes, it is a gamble. given what we know today, there seems to be a pretty good chance the LeBron leaves next off season. Kyrie has hinted at seeking trade if that happens. They have traded away most of their draft picks. Cavs could very quickly be left with nothing, and they are not exactly a free agent destination.

It would be a gamble worth taking, IMO.

Agree. Definitely worth the gamble. Assuming PG-13 goes to Cleveland and he and Lebron decide to stick around. They are probably looking at 4 years deals (maybe 5 for Lebron) with a player option on the 4th year.

That takes them to 2021 still being a pretty good team so that pick may not be that valuable. However, Lebron, PG-13 and possibly Kyrie likely leave by then (Lebron retiring and PG-13 and Kyrie going to other teams) making the 2023 pick as a likely lottery pick.

If, as many seem to believe, Lebron leaves after next season and Kyrie forces his way out...then the 2021 and 2023 picks should both be high lottery picks.

 

[trojanfan12]

But, wasn't PG talking about extending with IND?

He stated in February that he wants to play on a winning team.
http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...ge-extension-want-play-winning-team/98051748/

Is there a link/source for where he states he would not sign an extension for CLE/BOS?

Not for Cleveland or Boston specifically. However there is a link that reports that his agents are telling other teams pretty adamantly that he won't sign an extension.

Lakers Rumors: Paul George's Camp Telling Teams 'Pretty Adamantly' He Will Join L.A. In 2018 - Lakers Nation

Granted, it's the Lakers Nation website, so I don't know how much of it is to get Lakers fans excited, but there are other articles from different sites saying he's "reluctant" to sign an extension.

 

[tlance]

Except, if they pull off a trade for Paul George, it makes them better next season, gives them a chance to re-sign George and LeBron, and, alternatively, gives them a chance to sign a 2018 free agent and then extend LeBron. The trade for George, itself, should increase his chances of staying.

I think there is a lot more going on behind the scenes that has not been made public. Griffin not getting renewed is just the tip of the iceberg. One thing is clear though. LeBron and Gilbert do not appear to be on the same page. Even if they land George and keep Love, I think it would be something like 50-50 chance of LeBron staying. If he does stay, it won't be on a 4 year deal. We will likely see him go back to 1 year at a time.

 

[knowyourenemy]

I think there is a lot more going on behind the scenes that has not been made public. Griffin not getting renewed is just the tip of the iceberg. One thing is clear though. LeBron and Gilbert do not appear to be on the same page. Even if they land George and keep Love, I think it would be something like 50-50 chance of LeBron staying. If he does stay, it won't be on a 4 year deal. We will likely see him go back to 1 year at a time.

I agree with you about all of that -- I just don't know how to value the Cleveland 2021 and 2023 picks. So many variables. It might be worth the risk . . . it's just hard to know.

 

[Gman]

IMO, the Celtics screwed the pooch on the Jimmy Butler move. They overvalued their #3 pick.

We'll see how FA goes... tough to judge the matter now.

If Boston comes up snake eyes in FA... passing over Butler as they did will be a lot worse.

 

[BigKen]

What good does 2021 & 2023 picks do for Indianapolis now or in 2018, 2019, 2020?? Dealing a player for a dream in 4 or 6 years isn't exactly a fair exchange.