Gruden has got to go..

[redskin4209]

Sorry.. going to call BS on that. You are basically laying the blame on the coach and the QB and absolving the putrid defenses of the past few years as well as the substandard talent around the QB which the coach has the pleasure of working with.

2016 was a prove it wasnt a fluke year for Kirk and Jay. They proved it, so in 2017 it was prove you can do it with a little more on defense (sort of) and alot less on offense.

But I guess I should expect these types of ideas living in the time of the Iphone forever plan where the new hotness is always just around the corner.

What ever Shark you have you opinion and I have mines. Don't care if you buy it. But I see you are not denying what I said and that is we can not run the ball and neither can we stop the opposition from running the ball. Enough said

 

[Sharkinva]

What ever Shark you have you opinion and I have mines. Don't care if you buy it. But I see you are not denying what I said and that is we can not run the ball and neither can we stop the opposition from running the ball. Enough said

Because IM not going to deny what is basically fact.

Now the whole Gruden must go thing... I actually think he and Kirk pulled off a borderline miracle having this team finish 7-9 considering that..

1. We couldnt run the ball
2. We couldnt stop the run
3. We had 2 projects as our top two wide outs, and our dynamic TE spent more time in the hot tub than on the field.

 

[chillerdab]

I believe if you think Gruden is a good coach, you have become far to used to poor coaches.

Jason Garrett is far from a bad coach. What makes him bad, other than he coaches Dallas?

No. Gruden is a good coach; this year is the perfect example as to why he is a good coach. He lost approximately 012931092380 players on his team, and found a way to make the team mostly competitive in most of the games they played.

That's the mark of a good coach.

Garrett is a terrible coach. He's a terrible coach because he can't make adjustments, doesn't call a good game, can't overcome injuries to any of his star players, and hasn't led his team to any measurement of success at all, other when they lucked into Prescott, last year.

Prescott STILL can't throw an accurate deep ball, one year later, and the team was lost without Elliot. They scored something like 10 points over three games before meeting a redskins team decimated by injuries. After shredding the redskins, they went back to sucking, as is Garrett's modus operendi.

He's an awful coach.

 

[chillerdab]

Thing is, the Eagles didnt do it in just two years. They spent the past 3-4 years building that defense and roster. They just finally got to the point where they had all the other pieces in place to make the big splash for the QB.

Philly wining the Super Bowl is likely going to lead Danny and Bruce to do some very stupid things over the next few months.

Chip Kelly was let go two years ago.

It took the Eagles two years to rebuild.

You're wrong.

 

[Sharkinva]

Chip Kelly was let go two years ago.

It took the Eagles two years to rebuild.

You're wrong.

Again they didnt rebuild in two years. The Eagles already had a good portion of the defensive pieces in place even when Kelly was there.

BUt more importantly.. aside from dumb luck, do you honestly think this team has the front office to do what Philly just did?? Or is this just a case of fuck it Philly did it why cant we??


My thinking is the later. Because until Bruce and Dan can prove they are more concerned with winning on the field than off the field, what Philly did is just a pipe dream for Redskins fans and we both know it.

 

[chillerdab]

Really?

Not according to facts.

In 2015, the Eagles had the 28th ranked defense.
2015 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

In 2014, the Eagles had the 23rd ranked defense.
2014 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com


Chip Kelly is fired after the 2015 season.

In 2016, the Eagles had the 12th ranked defense.
2016 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

In 2017, the Eagles had the 4th ranked defense.
2014 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Two years.

 

[Sharkinva]

Really?

Not according to facts.

In 2015, the Eagles had the 28th ranked defense.
2015 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

In 2014, the Eagles had the 23rd ranked defense.
2014 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com


Chip Kelly is fired after the 2015 season.

In 2016, the Eagles had the 12th ranked defense.
2016 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

In 2017, the Eagles had the 4th ranked defense.
2014 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Two years.

Ah... so NOW stats matter.


OK name me the MAJOR pieces they added to the defense over the past two years that made the difference??

Reality is, Philly had a solid defense even when Kelly was there. They didnt have the offense which I will grant you Wentz is a huge part of.

But again you didnt answer the question.. aside from shear dumb luck.. do you really think firing Gruden will lead to a two year turn around?? Because thats the implication here.. fire Gruden and we will get better. Is that it?

 

[chillerdab]

One trick pony:

I think the Redskins are starting to get it right, which is a fancy way of saying that they are - generally speaking - making more good moves than stupid ones.

They are improving their depth in all areas.
They are signing young free agents to modest deals - Mason Foster's deal is a good example of a good signing, this year.
They are, for the most part, keeping their draft picks and drafting for a mixture of need and talent.

These are the signs of a franchise that is taking the necessary steps to build a consistent winner.

They are ALSO - pay attention, one trick pony - STILL making completely idiotic moves.
Cousins debacle was idiotic.
Including Kendall Fuller was idiotic.
Norman's contract seems like a bad one, right now.
Not finding a quality rb seems like a bad move.

But by and large, they've done an average job:
oline depth, te depth, safety depth (especially if Cravens comes back), olb depth, 3rd down back, cb depth.

 

[Sharkinva]

One trick pony:

I think the Redskins are starting to get it right, which is a fancy way of saying that they are - generally speaking - making more good moves than stupid ones.

They are improving their depth in all areas.
They are signing young free agents to modest deals - Mason Foster's deal is a good example of a good signing, this year.
They are, for the most part, keeping their draft picks and drafting for a mixture of need and talent.

These are the signs of a franchise that is taking the necessary steps to build a consistent winner.

They are ALSO - pay attention, one trick pony - STILL making completely idiotic moves.
Cousins debacle was idiotic.
Including Kendall Fuller was idiotic.
Norman's contract seems like a bad one, right now.
Not finding a quality rb seems like a bad move.

But by and large, they've done an average job:
oline depth, te depth, safety depth (especially if Cravens comes back), olb depth, 3rd down back, cb depth.

So... if they are headed in the right direction.. what would firing the coach and CHANGING that direction accomplish??

They are either heading in the right direction... or they need a change of direction.. Make up your mind dude... unless there is simply soe reason other than heading in the right direction to want Gruden fired.

Do tell??

Bonus question.. we fire Gruden.. who do we bring in to coach?? Or is this another well we cant get any one worse type of setup??

 

[chillerdab]

2017 draft

Derek Barnet
Sidney Jones, nickel cb
Rasul Douglas, cb

2017 free agent signees:
Chris Long
corey graham, s

Trades:
Jordan Matthews for Darby, cb

2016 draft:
Jalen Mills, S

2016 free agency

Nigel Bradham
Rodney mc cloud

 

[chillerdab]

Take your meds, one trick pony:

I like Gruden and don't want a change of direction. You must have me confused with somebody - anybody.

 

[Sharkinva]

Take your meds, one trick pony:

I like Gruden and don't want a change of direction. You must have me confused with somebody - anybody.

NAh.. I dont have you confused, you clearly think the team is headed in the right direction. I tend to think as long as Bruce is around, he is just Vinny without the lazy eye.

 

[gkekoa]

No. Gruden is a good coach; this year is the perfect example as to why he is a good coach. He lost approximately 012931092380 players on his team, and found a way to make the team mostly competitive in most of the games they played.

That's the mark of a good coach.

Garrett is a terrible coach. He's a terrible coach because he can't make adjustments, doesn't call a good game, can't overcome injuries to any of his star players, and hasn't led his team to any measurement of success at all, other when they lucked into Prescott, last year.

Prescott STILL can't throw an accurate deep ball, one year later, and the team was lost without Elliot. They scored something like 10 points over three games before meeting a redskins team decimated by injuries. After shredding the redskins, they went back to sucking, as is Garrett's modus operendi.

He's an awful coach.

Jay Gruden never starts a season well and never comes off a bye well.

Jason Garrett, as a head coach, was 8-8 in his first three seasons. Since then, he was 12-4 and won a playoff game in 2014 which likely would have been more if the Dez catch stood. In 2015, Romo only lasted four games and the Cowboys went 4-12 but few teams can survive a top flight QB going down. 2016, they were 13-3, losing to GB on a last second FG, and he was coach of the year. In 2017, they were 9-7 with three keys missing many games, Zeke, Tyron Smith, and of course their defensive key in Sean Lee. How would we have done without our three best players in KC, Trent, and RK.

 

[Rowdy]

Chip Kelly was let go two years ago.

It took the Eagles two years to rebuild.

You're wrong.

Eagles had a good defense when Kelly was the coach. The problem was they were worn out fast with Kelly fast paced offense not working

 

[redskin4209]

Chip Kelly was let go two years ago.

It took the Eagles two years to rebuild.

You're wrong.

I concurr

 

[skinsdad62]

We get that Dad but you fail to understand nothing will get better with Gruden here. KC is gone and I think everything will stay the same even with Smith here.

Gruden team does well against teams below 500 but is a complete failure against teams over 500 means you will never make the playoffs unless you have soft schedule (2015-16). Teams in the playoffs all are over 500 meaning your destiny is a short one.

There's nothing wrong with rebuilding and getting a new coach that understand one of the basic fundamentals of football. You need a running game with a good scheme and execution alone with some kind of bread and butter running play. Gruden is PART of the reason why KC was unable to win big games. He MUST go also.

i have been told this before ( not by you directly ) but people on this board have said they are OK with things then later are not , just saying

 

[redskin4209]

Now!!!!! Let get back to the topic. Let's leave KC. FO etc out of this topic. This is about Gruden and only Gruden. We all have been to this rodeo before with the exception of those here born after 1980's. We all remember a young coach coming here from some pass happy offense who liked throwing the ball all over the dam place. Going 0-5 in his first 5 games. Didn't take him long to figure it out. You need some kind of RG and you also need to stop the opposition from running the ball down your throat. Then you build your team around that. Now Gruden has not learned this and we are now in yr 4 of his coaching era. Some here like Gruden and I am not mad at you b/c everybody has their opinion. But I grew up in the era of understanding the importance of the RG(1960's) I can't help it, it's my DNA.

Some one here made a good point when summing up Gruden RG. I can't remember who it was but quote
"There's something inherently wrong with Gruden RG".

It is hard for any RB to establish any rhythm when given so few chances. Gruden will throw th ball 2 times out of 3 downs and most NFL team know this. The RG is really an afterthought in Gruden offense scheme. A passing scheme built around pass catching TE's , yet our skins top two tight ends aren't great run blockers. Every team has some sort of power running plays but there’s a problem with Gruden power run foundationally b/c of lack of execution and practice. Gruden need some good bread and butter running plays. More emphasis need to built our OL better and a better running scheme overall. Besides most OL enjoy running the ball, all about an attitude. Having a good RG helps in all kinds of situation. Inclement weather and it explains some of our red zone problems. Your QB will be quite happy with a RG. Just ask KC

Having a good RG also helps your wet toilet issue defense LOL. Speaking of Defense, Gruden looked over Wade Phillips, Vic Fangio and picked JB and finally Manusky. Now when you have successive blunders, that speak volumes. That's all on the coach. Just like the OL our D line need more attention also and you built around that also.

Gruden offense has put up some nice numbers etc but to me!!!! Gruden has been a failure. Unless Gruden change his offense philosophy and scheme we will continue to be below average football team. We will never get any were close to the promise land with a coach like Gruden.

 

[Sharkinva]

i have been told this before ( not by you directly ) but people on this board have said they are OK with things then later are not , just saying

By product of two things.

1. our new PC culture where its apparently ok to be wishy washy

2. The beauty of the search engine. Very few people want to take a hard line stance because as has been proven... one can always go back and say.. dude you said THIS. Which kind of gets rid of the ability to say.. I never said that.

 

[skinsdad62]

By product of two things.

1. our new PC culture where its apparently ok to be wishy washy

2. The beauty of the search engine. Very few people want to take a hard line stance because as has been proven... one can always go back and say.. dude you said THIS. Which kind of gets rid of the ability to say.. I never said that.

some people recently found this out

 

[Stymietee]

Now!!!!! Let get back to the topic. Let's leave KC. FO etc out of this topic. This is about Gruden and only Gruden. We all have been to this rodeo before with the exception of those here born after 1980's. We all remember a young coach coming here from some pass happy offense who liked throwing the ball all over the dam place. Going 0-5 in his first 5 games. Didn't take him long to figure it out. You need some kind of RG and you also need to stop the opposition from running the ball down your throat. Then you build your team around that. Now Gruden has not learned this and we are now in yr 4 of his coaching era. Some here like Gruden and I am not mad at you b/c everybody has their opinion. But I grew up in the era of understanding the importance of the RG(1960's) I can't help it, it's my DNA.

Some one here made a good point when summing up Gruden RG. I can't remember who it was but quote
"There's something inherently wrong with Gruden RG".

It is hard for any RB to establish any rhythm when given so few chances. Gruden will throw th ball 2 times out of 3 downs and most NFL team know this. The RG is really an afterthought in Gruden offense scheme. A passing scheme built around pass catching TE's , yet our skins top two tight ends aren't great run blockers. Every team has some sort of power running plays but there’s a problem with Gruden power run foundationally b/c of lack of execution and practice. Gruden need some good bread and butter running plays. More emphasis need to built our OL better and a better running scheme overall. Besides most OL enjoy running the ball, all about an attitude. Having a good RG helps in all kinds of situation. Inclement weather and it explains some of our red zone problems. Your QB will be quite happy with a RG. Just ask KC

Having a good RG also helps your wet toilet issue defense LOL. Speaking of Defense, Gruden looked over Wade Phillips, Vic Fangio and picked JB and finally Manusky. Now when you have successive blunders, that speak volumes. That's all on the coach. Just like the OL our D line need more attention also and you built around that also.

Gruden offense has put up some nice numbers etc but to me!!!! Gruden has been a failure. Unless Gruden change his offense philosophy and scheme we will continue to be below average football team. We will never get any were close to the promise land with a coach like Gruden.

OK, let's say that there is a need for change, who would you get as a replacement?

Isn't it true that already established available NFL HC's and coordinators would balk at the offer from our front office?

However on a real good note, I'd like to introduce the guy that I suggest they go after in the event there comes time to change.

David Shaw


David Shaw (American football) | American Football ...
americanfootballdatabase.wikia.com/wiki/David_Shaw_(American_football)
David Shaw (born July 31, 1972) is the head coach of the Stanford Cardinal football team. Shaw...

This was my choice before Gruden and will be if Gruden goes as you suggest.