George Johnson signs offer sheet

[jayfan]

This off-season has netted the Lions -11 sacks and -27 hurries on the DL.

Correction: The off-season has netted the DL -11 sacks and -23.5 hurries.

Suh 8.5 sacks, 10 hurries
Johnson 6 sacks, 12 hurries
Fairley 1 sack, 5 hurries

Ngata 2 sacks, 1.5 hurries
Walker 2.5 sacks, 2 hurries

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Suh 8.5 sacks, 10 hurries
Johnson 6 sacks, 12 hurries
Fairley 1 sack, 5 hurries

Ngata 2 sacks, 1.5 hurries
Walker 2.5 sacks, 2 hurries

$2.3m kept you Johnson with the 2nd rd tender. Getting a late 5th rd pick doesn't help to offset anything? We lose his production but luckily replace one of the picks that our genius GM overpaid to get because he was so desperate after losing the guy at the top of that list.

Go sign Bowers and hope that he can get his career on track. Phillip Hunt isn't the answer, Daryl Tapp will sign elsewhere next offseason for better $ if he has another decent year, Webster is still practice squad eligible and a project, and Jones will be a FA after the season.

We have WAY to many holes to spend on a DE other than late in the draft. So we draft yet another project? No thanks, I'll roll with Bowers on a contract that's less than what Johnson would have cost us. Just once I'd like to see someone in the front office show a little bit of vision.

 

[Old Lion]

This off-season has netted the Lions -11 sacks and -27 hurries on the DL.

So we will net 10+ million in 2016 and all we lost is 11 sacks. Awesome. Ill take that deal.

And that includes 6 sacks that we not attempted to replace yet

 

[tpaulus_2]

Well by the Eternal Pessimist's own metric then we gained 2 All-Pro seasons this off-season, as Ngata has been voted as the best at his position 5 times, to Suh's 3 times.

Thanks for pointing out how much better we got Jayfan!

 

[gvsulaker82]

I like this deal. We didn't overpay for a flash in the pan and we got back a 5th rounder. Essentially we got Ngata for a 4th rounder. Even more so, we shouldn't have gotten anything as the Bucs should have gotten him for nothing. Even more more so, we didn't give him that second round tender that no one would have jumped on.

Essentially we got ngata and walker for suh, fairley, George Johnson and a 4th rd pick. Not too shabby.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Sacks really don't matter. At least to the Suh posse'. at least some argue and protect Suh on lack of sacks. Somewhere there is a conversion chart for hurries=sacks and hits>sacks. I googled it but can not find it.

Hes a tackle not an end. For his position he did very well sack wise. You yourself keep preaching how it's a team sport like suh supporters don't realize that. Well you are correct, it is a team sport and suh is the definition of a team player. He does everything and makes everyone around him more productive.

 

[gandydancer]

Just as Suh's team mates make him better also.

That comment was in reference to somebody defending the fact when Suh only had 4 1/2 sacks it was everything else that he did that was important but when he does have 10 sacks he's the man.
I will still argue that Austin made that whole defense better as Sue did not make average players around him better in four prior seasons

 

[gandydancer]

Suh is and will always be a beast I get that but he was not the only reason there was a number two defense and that Suh supporters will not admit that I don't have a problem admitting it was Suh. I also don't have a problem with giving recognition to Austin

 

[Microwahevo]

$2.3m kept you Johnson with the 2nd rd tender. Getting a late 5th rd pick doesn't help to offset anything? We lose his production but luckily replace one of the picks that our genius GM overpaid to get because he was so desperate after losing the guy at the top of that list.

Go sign Bowers and hope that he can get his career on track. Phillip Hunt isn't the answer, Daryl Tapp will sign elsewhere next offseason for better $ if he has another decent year, Webster is still practice squad eligible and a project, and Jones will be a FA after the season.

We have WAY to many holes to spend on a DE other than late in the draft. So we draft yet another project? No thanks, I'll roll with Bowers on a contract that's less than what Johnson would have cost us. Just once I'd like to see someone in the front office show a little bit of vision.

How do u know Tapp will sign elsewhere next year? Maybe he will enjoy continuing to play in Detroit? Just saying, his departure isn't written in stone.

 

[TwoCents22]

Why does everyone assume we had the exact same defense in 2013 as 2014 and Austin is the only difference? This has come up a lot as "proof" that we don't/didn't need Suh. I love Austin, but I feel some are treating him as god.

In 2013 Ziggy and Slay were rookies. And were dealing with injuries. Both of them. They didnt have nearly as much of an impact in 13. Jason Jones barely played and Fairley was not in a contract year in 13. And we had Delmas and Houston as starters. Mathis still played well, as with Levy and Quinn, but overall it wasn't the same defense.

Add to that, I keep hearing how Stafford's less interceptions this year helped the defense. Well guess what? He was throwing a lot of them in 2013, so couldn't I say that hurt the defense that year? And all the fumbles?

Bottom line, our defense did start to play somewhat respectable late last year(2013), ironically during our offensive collapse down the stretch. So, yes, Austin deserves credit, but that doesn't mean Suh deserves none, or that well be just fine without him. If you believe Austin is the main reason, you might not want to be a fan passed this year.

 

[gandydancer]

Why does everyone assume we had the exact same defense in 2013 as 2014 and Austin is the only difference? This has come up a lot as "proof" that we don't/didn't need Suh. I love Austin, but I feel some are treating him as god.

In 2013 Ziggy and Slay were rookies. And were dealing with injuries. Both of them. They didnt have nearly as much of an impact in 13. Jason Jones barely played and Fairley was not in a contract year in 13. And we had Delmas and Houston as starters. Mathis still played well, as with Levy and Quinn, but overall it wasn't the same defense.

Add to that, I keep hearing how Stafford's less interceptions this year helped the defense. Well guess what? He was throwing a lot of them in 2013, so couldn't I say that hurt the defense that year? And all the fumbles?

Bottom line, our defense did start to play somewhat respectable late last year(2013), ironically during our offensive collapse down the stretch. So, yes, Austin deserves credit, but that doesn't mean Suh deserves none, or that well be just fine without him. If you believe Austin is the main reason, you might not want to be a fan passed this year.

I do give credit to both as all I'm saying it was not one or the other both played a part in that defense.

Your second paragraph actually shows how I was saying that it was not all sue that made the defense better as players to develop and get better on their own not just because of Suh.

Is it wrong to treat Suh as a god?

 

[TwoCents22]

Yes, you are correct. Suh is not god. But he was still the best player on our defense, by far. I think its wrong to attribute 90% of our success to Austin. Why does it have to be either Austin or Suh?

Im not sure the exact rankings, but it was like 15 and 16 in ppg and yards allowed in 2013 to 2nd and 3rd in 2014. I would credit a little of everything for the jump. Austin, the development of Ziggy and Slay, having good luck health wise. Just not "All Austin", as some would incinuate.

 

[TwoCents22]

And the cut down of turnovers

 

[LionsWhyMe]

I will still argue that Austin made that whole defense better as Sue did not make average players around him better in four prior seasons

Gunther need anyone say more?

 

[Old Lion]

Actually now that I look at it closer, we are saving almost 15 mil. All to replace just 11 sacks. Heck Larry Webster may end up doing that himself in a couple years. He will most likely come up to the active roster this year.

 

[gandydancer]

Gunther need anyone say more?

So is Austin better at utilizing his players than Gunny? Did these kids naturally develop or is Suh the only reason they got better or had any success?

I am well aware there will be some dropoff with Suh gone. I just don't see them ranked in the twenties suddenly because of Suh leaving. I seen them ranked in the twenties when Suh was here.

 

[LionsWhyMe]

So is Austin better at utilizing his players than Gunny? Did these kids naturally develop or is Suh the only reason they got better or had any success?

I am well aware there will be some dropoff with Suh gone. I just don't see them ranked in the twenties suddenly because of Suh leaving. I seen them ranked in the twenties when Suh was here.

In all honesty I believe Suh's rookie season was his best performance. One big difference between last year and the rest is Suh challenged the DLine last season... Suh was pushing the others and getting pushed, to get a better pay day, perhaps. But, if I had to make one notable distinction it would be a better secondary.

 

[TwoCents22]

I would bet anything that if you replaced Ziggy with Kyle Vanden Bosch, Jason Jones with Cliff Avril, Mathis/Slay/Quinn/Digs with Houston/Greenwood/Delmas/Speivey, that we would have a bottom 5 defense with Ngata replacing Suh.

While we did finish bottom half of the NFL with Suh, it would have been a lot worse without him. And while we finished top 5 with Suh, we still have the talent to be a top half of the NFL defense(my guess is about 10th).

 

[Quackerjacked]

The net sacks thing is a silly way to look at it at this point. There are so many different variables into getting sacks. Ngata is probably going to get more than two in our style of defense. Ziggy is still progressing, and someone else is going to get pass situation snaps instead of Johnson.

 

[Mebert]

I would bet anything that if you replaced Ziggy with Kyle Vanden Bosch, Jason Jones with Cliff Avril, Mathis/Slay/Quinn/Digs with Houston/Greenwood/Delmas/Speivey, that we would have a bottom 5 defense with Ngata replacing Suh.

I agree, Mayhew has done an awesome job bringing in talent........