George Johnson signs offer sheet

[gandydancer]

I would bet anything that if you replaced Ziggy with Kyle Vanden Bosch, Jason Jones with Cliff Avril, Mathis/Slay/Quinn/Digs with Houston/Greenwood/Delmas/Speivey, that we would have a bottom 5 defense with Ngata replacing Suh.

While we did finish bottom half of the NFL with Suh, it would have been a lot worse without him. And while we finished top 5 with Suh, we still have the talent to be a top half of the NFL defense(my guess is about 10th).

Well this post surely debunks the theory that Mayhew never put talent around Suh, because now that you put it on paper it sure looks like they upgraded every position around him. I know he makes players better... No dispute here. I can also see better players make a better defense, not just Suh.

 

[jdwills126]

I have criticized Mayhew and still do about a lot of his moves or lack of.

This was a good move but in all honesty a minor one as a 5th round pick is iffy to make the roster. The problem with replacing stats is guys like Tapp and Webster will get Johnson's minutes. And Ngata may benefit from having Ansah tying up a blocker or the new scheme better helps him than the last year he was in Baltimore where he missed games that were counted in his totals.

We keep bringing up Suh and what he brought to the table but the intangibles like 15 yrs personal foul penalties and suspensions are routinely glossed over. IMO it's a safe bet if he steps out of line he gets suspended after catching a break with not having to sit out for the step on Rodgers.

Plus I think their is a certain value for a guy that wants to be in Detroit. And I never got that feeling with Suh.

 

[TBBishop]

He was worth the 2nd round tender. This was still a botch job made somewhat palatable due to Tampa's snafu. Maywand owes them a thank you note.

This jouneyman with one good season was worth the $2.5 million we would have had to pay him when he went unsigned by any other team based on what? Even more so, would we have had to restructure anyone to give him that $2.5 million and sign our draft picks? I understand why people hate Mayhew but this wasn't a botch job at all. They felt he was worth less than $2 mil per year and were willing to let him go rather than pay him more than that and had they given him that 2rd round tender they would have been stcuk paying him not only more than they wanted but more than they could afford.

 

[TBBishop]

$2.3m kept you Johnson with the 2nd rd tender. Getting a late 5th rd pick doesn't help to offset anything? We lose his production but luckily replace one of the picks that our genius GM overpaid to get because he was so desperate after losing the guy at the top of that list.

Go sign Bowers and hope that he can get his career on track. Phillip Hunt isn't the answer, Daryl Tapp will sign elsewhere next offseason for better $ if he has another decent year, Webster is still practice squad eligible and a project, and Jones will be a FA after the season.

We have WAY to many holes to spend on a DE other than late in the draft. So we draft yet another project? No thanks, I'll roll with Bowers on a contract that's less than what Johnson would have cost us. Just once I'd like to see someone in the front office show a little bit of vision.

Are you talking about Bowers as in Da'Quan Bowers? Fuck that , Bro!!! He's not worth the paper the contract would be written on. His knees were shot coming out of college. Both of them, bone on bone. He's lazy. He's undisciplined. And if the Bucs are willing to pay Johnson $3 mil and give up a 5th rounder when they could have just brought back Bowers that should tell you all you need to know. The Bucs are desperate for pass rushers and cut Bowers loose.

 

[LPinSLC]

The DT position should'nt be measured on sacks alone. Sacks are more of a perk than a requirement.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

How do u know Tapp will sign elsewhere next year? Maybe he will enjoy continuing to play in Detroit? Just saying, his departure isn't written in stone.

Fair enough, I can't say with any level of certainty that he wouldn't be back.

But my point was about vision, and if he does have another good season he very, very likely isn't going to be looking for another one year vet minimum deal. At which point the Lions have to decide on what type of commitment you make to a 32 year old journeyman player.

I would much rather they take a shot at a player who offers some real upside. Tapp was better than I expected him to be last season but he is very easily replaced and quite frankly I don't expect much from him this year.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Are you talking about Bowers as in Da'Quan Bowers?

Yes, that's who I'm talking about. It's a nothing contract for a guy who still has plenty of upside. Well worth the risk

 

[Microwahevo]

Fair enough, I can't say with any level of certainty that he wouldn't be back.

But my point was about vision, and if he does have another good season he very, very likely isn't going to be looking for another one year vet minimum deal. At which point the Lions have to decide on what type of commitment you make to a 32 year old journeyman player.

I would much rather they take a shot at a player who offers some real upside. Tapp was better than I expected him to be last season but he is very easily replaced and quite frankly I don't expect much from him this year.

I agree. He seems to love the fans here in Detroit. The practice I went to he was the most talkative out of the players and spent the most time interacting with the fans. And on every mic'd up I watch, he's very vocal and always trying to get the crowd into it. Either he's like that at every stop he's been, or he loves detroit. Either way, if he does leave after this year, he won't be the hardest to replace.

 

[Old Lion]

Tapp may not even make the team. If Webster is ready, he is probably gone. Not to mention he would still have to beat out the athletic freak that was just signed last month.

 

[Rollingthndr]

Tapp may not even make the team. If Webster is ready, he is probably gone. Not to mention he would still have to beat out the athletic freak that was just signed last month.

Coach Jim Caldwell said second-year DE Larry Webster "has made leaps and bounds in his ability to rush the passer."

"At some point in time, you're going to see that young man take the field for us and perform extremely well," Caldwell said of Webster. The 136th overall pick in last year's draft out of tiny Bloomsburg, Webster didn't play a single snap as a rookie. At 6'6/262, Webster has a ton of upside as a backup pass rusher.


Source: Detroit Free Press

 

[Old Lion]

Coach Jim Caldwell said second-year DE Larry Webster "has made leaps and bounds in his ability to rush the passer."

"At some point in time, you're going to see that young man take the field for us and perform extremely well," Caldwell said of Webster. The 136th overall pick in last year's draft out of tiny Bloomsburg, Webster didn't play a single snap as a rookie. At 6'6/262, Webster has a ton of upside as a backup pass rusher.


Source: Detroit Free Press

That is everyones hope. From the tone of what he said though, it may not necessarily be this year. Maybe Tapp plays 1 more year for us and then Webster takes over after that.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Tapp may not even make the team. If Webster is ready, he is probably gone. Not to mention he would still have to beat out the athletic freak that was just signed last month.

We carried 6 DEs last year, and with Tapp being able to play DE and OLB I think his odds of sticking are pretty good overall.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I hope Webster is ready to contribute this year. I imagine we'll at least see him get some snaps, because I don't see them red-shirting him again this year, and trying to get him through to the practice squad is not a realistic option.

He's insanely fast for a man his size, so, at the very least, he should be able to contribute on special teams as he works his way into the defensive mix...

 

[Old Lion]

I hope Webster is ready to contribute this year. I imagine we'll at least see him get some snaps, because I don't see them red-shirting him again this year, and trying to get him through to the practice squad is not a realistic option.

He's insanely fast for a man his size, so, at the very least, he should be able to contribute on special teams as he works his way into the defensive mix...

Agreed. Someone will snatch him up for sure this year if he is left out there. Even last year was a risk for that, but I thought it was worth the gamble given how loaded we were at the position.

 

[tpaulus_2]

He wasn't on the practice sqaud last year. We had to keep him on the active roster last season because 4th round picks do not clear waivers...

 

[TBBishop]

Yes, that's who I'm talking about. It's a nothing contract for a guy who still has plenty of upside. Well worth the risk

OK if he's coming in at the minimum then I'd be OK with it but I could almost guarantee you that he'd end up just a camp body. Our vets are better than him and the youngsters have more potential. That's if he even passes a physical, which I can't imagine at this point.

 

[jayfan]

This jouneyman with one good season was worth the $2.5 million we would have had to pay him when he went unsigned by any other team based on what? Even more so, would we have had to restructure anyone to give him that $2.5 million and sign our draft picks? I understand why people hate Mayhew but this wasn't a botch job at all. They felt he was worth less than $2 mil per year and were willing to let him go rather than pay him more than that and had they given him that 2rd round tender they would have been stcuk paying him not only more than they wanted but more than they could afford.

A guy coming off of his first season with legit playing time who amassed 26 tackles, 6 sacks and 12 hurries is absolutely worth 2.3 mil for a year in today's nfl. No question.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I have questions. Foremost among them is was he just a product of an immensely talented D-line? How many of those sacks did he create vs. how many were "clean-up" sacks? Was the George Johnson who played for us last year the player we're going to see again this season, or will he revert to the George Johnson who played 3 years in the league without a sack?

No questions you say? Sounds like you're maybe trying to convince yourself on that one, not us...

 

[RobBase]

I have questions. Foremost among them is was he just a product of an immensely talented D-line...

Levy, Slay, Johnson etc...they were products of an immensely talented D-line. Not a new theory.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Foremost among them is was he just a product of an immensely talented D-line?

He was a member of that d-line I believe.

How many of those sacks did he create vs. how many were "clean-up" sacks?

Don't know. How many did the other guys get that they created vs "clean up" sacks they got from what Johnson did?

Was the George Johnson who played for us last year the player we're going to see again this season, or will he revert to the George Johnson who played 3 years in the league without a sack?

Great question. I have one for you, who will be the offensive and defensive rookies of the year in 2015 so we can draft them?

No questions you say? Sounds like you're maybe trying to convince yourself on that one, not us...

It's a pay for performance league. He isn't under contract and therefore is in a position to get paid on his performance. 26 tackles, 6 sacks and 12 hurries on limited snaps is absolutely worth $2.3m on a one year deal to see if he can repeat that production.