• Have something to say? Register Now! and be posting in minutes!

Broncos 2017 NFL Draft

Dr Cyanide 28

Well-Known Member
2,339
385
83
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
i made an article out of it but MHH made it premium... which is annoying... so i copy and pasted it so you guys get it for free cuz I <3 all of you even if you disagree with me lol



Establishing A Value System For Position Groups In The NFL Draft For The Denver Broncos

NICK KENDELL (follow @NickKendellMHH)
Yesterday at 5:02 PM
We hear that NFL teams don't take running backs and inside linebackers in the first round of the Draft anymore. But do we fully understand why? Nick Kendell breaks down the positional value of draft selections & how that affects the Broncos.

When NFL teams evaluate collegiate talent and go through the year-long process of creating a Big Board for the NFL Draft, many think that the 'Best Player Available', colloquially known as BPA, is a far better strategy than drafting purely based on need. While it is always better to take obvious elite talent at a position of strength rather than reaching at a position of weakness, no NFL team has it so black and white.

Instead, each team allots weights and values to different positions based on scheme, immediate and future need, value of the position, and of course, talent. When considering this in context of the Denver Broncos need for a starting offensive tackle in this year’s class, are any of the top talents worth a first round selection at pick 20, and if so, why would one take them over other flashier positions?

The narrative that 'this is a poor tackle class', which is being spun throughout the NFL media, is not entirely false. This year’s offensive tackle class lacks great talent that can step in and contribute year one after the top three tackles — Alabama’s Cam Robinson, Wisconsin’s Ryan Ramczyk, and Utah’s Garett Bolles.

While there are potential developmental left tackles that should be available on day two, such as Troy’s Antonio Garcia, Bucknell’s Julie'n Davenport, as well as guys who may be left tackles, but probably fit best at guard or right tackle in Western Michigan’s Taylor Moton and Temple’s Dion Dawkins, none of these players are ready to compete at left tackle in the NFL year one, if ever.

Further driving this narrative of a ‘poor tackle class’ is the lack of an ‘elite’ tackle. While there is no 'elite' tackle prospect, like Laremy Tunsil and Ronnie Stanley were last season, that shouldn't de-legitimize the talent at tackle in this draft. Furthermore, if there actually were any ‘elite’ tackle prospects available this year, they would be selected in the top-10, if not top-five, in the draft and well out of Denver’s range.

Simply looking at what offensive tackles received on the open market in free agency this year should indicate the need and value of tackles across the NFL. Former Bronco and up and down tackle Russell Okung received the highest annual salary of any tackle in the entire NFL with a four-year, $53 million deal, with an average of $13.25 million per season.

Other mediocre to above average offensive tackles such as Riley Reiff, Ricky Wagner, and, Matt Kalil all received monstrous contracts day one of free agency. Even tackles who haven't shown very much and have a decent amount of questions like Denver’s new projected right tackle Menelik Watson and Vikings new right tackle whom Von Miller abused in the Super Bowl, Mike Remmers, cashed in with very large contracts this offseason on the open market.

For positional comparison, look no further than running back. Two of the better running backs in the NFL over the last decade, Adrian Peterson and Jamaal Charles, are still available to sign a month into free agency. If either played offensive tackle, they would have been signed day one even with their older age and injury questions.

Although there is not a perceived 'elite' offensive tackle prospect in this year's draft class that does equate to 'no tackle is worth a first round selection.' All three of the top tackles would have been worth round one last year in my own grading system and this class as a whole, while deeper in talent, is not as top-heavy as last season's class across the board.

There just are not that many true franchise changers at the top of the draft. After Myles Garrett, Marshon Lattimore, Solomon Thomas and arguably O.J. Howard, Malik Hooker, and Leonard Fournette (although they do not play ‘core’ positions) there aren’t many obvious elite-level prospects that are no-brainer top ten selections. Furthermore, I don’t believe we will see that great of a difference in talent from picks 11 all the way to 60, a testament to both the superior depth and lack of elite players in this year’s class.

Circling back to the original point, the top three tackles are all absolutely worth first round selections, especially when considering the premium price offensive tackles receive on the open market, how rare and hard quality starting tackles are to find across the league, and how valuable structurally it is to have a young tackle on a team-friendly, five-year contract going forward.

While BPA is always the way to go, no team in the NFL uses a pure BPA when creating their big board. Weights need to be used not just on positions of greater need on the current roster, but positions that offer greater value to the team’s salary and schematic structure.

Creating a big board, it is important to think of positional value when selecting based on a tiered grading system. With quarterback receiving the highest weight and a tier all to themselves due to the immense value of the position, tier two is comprised of the other 'core' positions on an NFL roster: edge rusher, cornerback, and offensive tackle.

Those positions are incredibly valuable and even just selecting a solid B+ level starter is worth a first round selection, especially when considering the added value of a cost-controlled young player for five years at an expensive position. Tier three includes defensive tackle and wide receiver.

These are two of the higher-paid positions in the league and the NFL obviously values them, especially if the defensive tackle offers pass-rush ability instead of simple run-stuffer. Finally, tier four is comprised of inside linebacker, safety, running back, tight end, and interior offensive line.

These are positions that many players starting in the league are lower draft picks and receive much smaller contracts on the open market. While there are exceptions to the rule, tier four should not be selected round one of the draft unless there are extenuating circumstances. Here's how I value position groups in the modern NFL.
Draft Tier Positional Value System

Tier 1: QB
Tier 2: OT, Edge, CB
Tier 3: DT (especially ones with pass rush ability), and WR
Tier 4: ILB, S, RB, TE, IOL

I partially base this on past historical data on ‘hits’ and ‘misses’ at the positions, as well as the average contract for the position on the open market. These contracts show how teams value the positions across the league.

If one is planning to select a player on the forth tier of positional value during the first round, that player must project to develop into a top 5-10 player at their position by the end of their rookie contract. In this class specifically, the players that fit this description in my personal rankings are O.J. Howard, Leonard Fournette, Forrest Lamp, Malik Hooker, Reuben Foster and Jamal Adams.

An argument could be made for Haason Reddick, David Njoku, or Christian McCaffrey as well, although there are offensive tackles with higher grades on my board than these players have. If John Elway views any of these players as future All-Pro caliber players, their talent can outweigh the positional value boost of other players.

However, to this point, Elway has not drafted a player on tier four during his tenure as the Broncos GM. This very well may be the year he breaks the trend.
So, to wrap this all up, no team ever uses pure BPA while creating their big board and drafting because of talent is not just simply talent. Instead, it is important to think about the draft from a positional value and cap structure perspective as well.

When considering all of these factors, as well as the level of talent the top three tackles show on tape, not only is tackle worth around one selection this year, but they also would bring incredible value to the team from a roster and salary perspective. While it is unwise to head into the draft focusing purely on one specific position, one could argue the question shouldn't be "does Denver take a tackle round one", but instead might be "which tackle should Denver select?" Locking up a core position with a talented cost-controlled player may just be too much value to pass up.
 

Dr Cyanide 28

Well-Known Member
2,339
385
83
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
you can disagree with me that is totally fine but wanted to share my vantage point that has been sculpted by talking with scouts/some team insiders/and my own growth as a talent evaluator
 

Mingo

Well-Known Member
15,680
5,279
533
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Thanks Nick - interesting stuff.
 

Dr Cyanide 28

Well-Known Member
2,339
385
83
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Current top 30 big board for the broncos. Kinda conflicted on some after 20 but it is what it is

1. Myles Garrett
2. Solomon Thomas
3. Marshon Lattimore
4. OJ Howard
5. Leonard Fournette
6. Reuben Foster
7. Malik Hooker
8. Jamal Adams
9. Jon Allen
10. Corey Davis
11. Cam Robinson
12. Haason Reddick
13. Ryan Ramczyk
14. John Ross
15. Christian McCaffrey
16. Garett Bolles
17. Forrest Lamp
18. David Njoku
19. Dalvin Cook
20. Quincy Wilson
21. Malik McDowell
22. Jabrill Peppers
23. Mike Williams
24. Marlon Humphries
25. Budda Baker
26. Charles Harris
27. Evan Engram
28. Gareon Conley
29. Jarrad Davis
30. Curtis Samuel
 

nflbronco

Well-Known Member
2,408
958
113
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Could Denver shock and draft Baker at 20?
 

cdumler7

Well-Known Member
26,304
4,319
293
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 9,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Could Denver shock and draft Baker at 20?

Maybe but I'm doubting it. The kid is talented don't get me wrong but they invested a 3rd round pick in Justin Simmons and a lot of money into Stewart this past season for the FS spot. So hard to see them then investing a 1st round pick in another Safety unless they play Strong Safety. We saw last year when TJ Ward was hurt and they moved Stewart over to the Strong Safety spot he just wasn't that good. Now maybe more reps at the position he could get there but he is much better in the FS role.
 

Mingo

Well-Known Member
15,680
5,279
533
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
You will never guess who I ran into over at Mile High Huddle? It's Crazy!

Great job guys - you are a lot smarter over there for some reason. I even liked a rather long article over there and looked to see who wrote it - and it was two guys from here.

So between Nick and Carl writing stuff - DC showing up around the Midwest like some kind of Sports Gnome - and George in a quest for the ring in New Zealand - it's been an interesting Spring.
 

Orange Crush77

Well-Known Member
5,225
2,505
293
Joined
Oct 1, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
My question is with the premium on Qb's, and we certainly have some uncertainties at the position, do we look at one of the top top guys if he falls
 

randymon

Well-Known Member
4,441
555
113
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Location
Redding,CA
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
IMO anyway, and sad to say becaus
My question is with the premium on Qb's, and we certainly have some uncertainties at the position, do we look at one of the top top guys if he falls
The answer is....NO. This draft could very well end up the worst Qb crop ever let alone draft one in rd 1. In this draft, your odds are just as good finding your QB " fix " in rd 5 as you are in rd 1. Let's get the pieces this offense needs to help the guys we have first. :)
 

58crash

must own
16,161
2,837
293
Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
OL OL DL OL TE OL ILB ILB then take a stab at QB
 

Orange Crush77

Well-Known Member
5,225
2,505
293
Joined
Oct 1, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Current top 30 big board for the broncos. Kinda conflicted on some after 20 but it is what it is

1. Myles Garrett
2. Solomon Thomas
3. Marshon Lattimore
4. OJ Howard
5. Leonard Fournette
6. Reuben Foster
7. Malik Hooker
8. Jamal Adams
9. Jon Allen
10. Corey Davis
11. Cam Robinson
12. Haason Reddick
13. Ryan Ramczyk
14. John Ross
15. Christian McCaffrey
16. Garett Bolles
17. Forrest Lamp
18. David Njoku
19. Dalvin Cook
20. Quincy Wilson
21. Malik McDowell
22. Jabrill Peppers
23. Mike Williams
24. Marlon Humphries
25. Budda Baker
26. Charles Harris
27. Evan Engram
28. Gareon Conley
29. Jarrad Davis
30. Curtis Samuel
That's a good list. I think J Davis might be higher on our list though. The middle of our front 7 is pretty bad, and he could fill the void that Trev left us with. I prefer the violence that Foster brings, as he is a true enforcer, but Davis is no slouch. I pray that somehow Elway gets us either Peters or Thomas and we somehow keep our first :)
 

cdumler7

Well-Known Member
26,304
4,319
293
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 9,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Well I'm doing the annual GM mock draft for the Hoop as the Broncos. Just made it through our 3rd round pick and this is what I have so far...

1) Cam Robinson--I debated between him and Haasan Reddick but just filling out our biggest need with the top LT in the draft was hard to pass up.
2) Jarrad Davis--Glad I didn't with Davis falling to me in the 2nd. Feel like with both of these picks got good value and met huge needs on the team. Davis' leadership/energy/athletic ability should really help bring something new to our defense.
3a) Dalvin Tomlinson--Fits nicely into one of our DE spots with the ability to kick into NT when needed. He is one of my personal favorite players in this draft as I think he only scratched the surface during his time at Alabama.
3b) Carlos Henderson--No player had a higher broken tackle percentage per touch than Henderson. Throw in maybe the best kick returner in all of college football this past season coming to the team adds a very nice weapon. Solves our slot WR and return game all in one pick.
 

Orange Crush77

Well-Known Member
5,225
2,505
293
Joined
Oct 1, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Well I'm doing the annual GM mock draft for the Hoop as the Broncos. Just made it through our 3rd round pick and this is what I have so far...

1) Cam Robinson--I debated between him and Haasan Reddick but just filling out our biggest need with the top LT in the draft was hard to pass up.
2) Jarrad Davis--Glad I didn't with Davis falling to me in the 2nd. Feel like with both of these picks got good value and met huge needs on the team. Davis' leadership/energy/athletic ability should really help bring something new to our defense.
3a) Dalvin Tomlinson--Fits nicely into one of our DE spots with the ability to kick into NT when needed. He is one of my personal favorite players in this draft as I think he only scratched the surface during his time at Alabama.
3b) Carlos Henderson--No player had a higher broken tackle percentage per touch than Henderson. Throw in maybe the best kick returner in all of college football this past season coming to the team adds a very nice weapon. Solves our slot WR and return game all in one pick.
That would be pretty fantastic, especially considering there are rumblings of Davis going a lot higher
 

cdumler7

Well-Known Member
26,304
4,319
293
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 9,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
That would be pretty fantastic, especially considering there are rumblings of Davis going a lot higher

Yeah I was shocked he was still there in the 2nd. Heard both the Chiefs and Raiders have him high on their board and could take him in the 1st round. So glad to see him reach the Broncos and instead get to terrorize them if this were what actually happens.

I was hoping a RB or TE would fall to a couple of those spots but seemed like right before my picks there would be a run on the 2 positions. Just never quite felt the value was there yet and still think there are some quality guys I can get in the 4th and 5th rounds at those positions.
 

Orange Crush77

Well-Known Member
5,225
2,505
293
Joined
Oct 1, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Well if you can make the real draft go down like that Springy will probably kiss you
 

cdumler7

Well-Known Member
26,304
4,319
293
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 9,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Well if you can make the real draft go down like that Springy will probably kiss you

I'll take that kiss with pride! So many ways this could go for the real draft. Really hoping we see an early run on QB's to push some talent down to us. I've seen more and more talk of teams like the Chargers, Cardinals, Jets, Jaguars, Bears, 49ers, Saints, and Bills all thinking QB in the 1st. I could see 3 guys going top-10 and I could see 0 going in the top-10.
 

CEH

Well-Known Member
5,884
1,532
173
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Garrett Bolles visiting this week
 

cdumler7

Well-Known Member
26,304
4,319
293
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 9,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Garrett Bolles visiting this week

I'm glad to see this visit set up. My guess is unless some amazing player falls into their laps if Bolles or Robinson are there at 20 good chance that is the pick.
 
Top