Bengals should beat Sea at home

[cincygrad]

I felt early on, the playcalling once again hit the middle...then as the game progressed...that went away. The only real target I saw over the middle in the 2nd half, I think, was the chase slant that went for 12-15 yards...

Higgins is simply having a terrible season. I would wager he has nearly as many drops/OPI as he does catches. He looks awful out there...

I think it's becoming easier to imaging a life without Higgins. And it's probably also time to move on from Boyd. That is a lot of production that we will lose and I'm sure Chiefs fans will remind folks that it isn't as easy to replace receivers as it looks.... But, I think we need some different parts for this offense. I think we need more quickness at the position - A guy that can win by creating separation. That's not really Tee's game - He's more of the win the contested catch type. And Boyd seems to be about 85-90 percent what he once was, and even at his peak he was limited athletically.

 

[cincygrad]

Also, I wan to see more of Chase Brown...I like Mixon and I don't think he's doing badly...but man...the amount of times he goes down on contact has got to be a concern....

I'm done with Mixon. I don't understand how a guy can be as athletic as he is and not be able to block or not be able to spring a single big run. Did you know that in his career, Mixon's long run is 51 yards and even that wasn't one he took to the house. In 4 of his 6 seasons, his long run was less than 35 yards. How is this possible? I often wonder how much better this offense would be if we simply had a prime Gio Bernard as guy that could eat snaps.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I'm done with Mixon. I don't understand how a guy can be as athletic as he is and not be able to block or not be able to spring a single big run. Did you know that in his career, Mixon's long run is 51 yards and even that wasn't one he took to the house. In 4 of his 6 seasons, his long run was less than 35 yards. How is this possible? I often wonder how much better this offense would be if we simply had a prime Gio Bernard as guy that could eat snaps.

My biggest gripe with Mixon has been his inability to create runs, as you say. He'll follow the play call to a "T" each time. There could be a 70 yard hole on his left, and he will run through the gap he is supposed to every time. Has very low vision, and now that he can't break a tackle....it's an issue.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I think it's becoming easier to imaging a life without Higgins. And it's probably also time to move on from Boyd. That is a lot of production that we will lose and I'm sure Chiefs fans will remind folks that it isn't as easy to replace receivers as it looks.... But, I think we need some different parts for this offense. I think we need more quickness at the position - A guy that can win by creating separation. That's not really Tee's game - He's more of the win the contested catch type. And Boyd seems to be about 85-90 percent what he once was, and even at his peak he was limited athletically.

For me, it's the dropped passes right now for him. He's got to have 5 or 6 and I think 2 OPI calls on him. He's a nice luxury to have, but the key to unlocking this offense in terms of consistency, IMO, is moving Chase around and then allowing burrow to extend if he has to start checking down.

 

[jbuck]

butt ugly
reminded me of OSU win over Notre Dame. Best team lost. I don't blame Mixon, however the running game stinks

 

[DanBengalfan]

Problem is Perine was so bad that Mixon thinks he needs to be out there every chance he gets. we need to work the other backs into the rotation.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Problem is Perine was so bad that Mixon thinks he needs to be out there every chance he gets. we need to work the other backs into the rotation.

Would love to see Chase get some run...

Mixon is just no longer the back he was. He was pretty darn good for a nice stretch, but these past 2+ years have been no bueno.

per Joe Goodberry: Of the 54 RBs that have carried the ball at least 25 times this season, Joe Mixon ranks...40th in Yards After Contact Per42nd in Breakout Run Percentage44th in Elusive Rating

 

[DanBengalfan]

Chase Brown looked pretty good at Illinois, not sure why we can't at least try to get him going.

 

[cincygrad]

Would love to see Chase get some run...

Mixon is just no longer the back he was. He was pretty darn good for a nice stretch, but these past 2+ years have been no bueno.

per Joe Goodberry: Of the 54 RBs that have carried the ball at least 25 times this season, Joe Mixon ranks...40th in Yards After Contact Per42nd in Breakout Run Percentage44th in Elusive Rating

And this isn't new. He was the same guy last year when he couldn't break or avoid tackles. The fact that the Bengals were insistent on keeping him is mind boggling. He was due too much money and he had some weird legal charges against him. It was the perfect time to cut bait. Instead, they deal with him and let him take less to come back. Now, if you were to tell me that he is an important cog in our passing game and that we are a passing team, I think you would have a case. But, he's never been a 3 down back because he is a liability in pass protection and he is mostly average as a receiver. I still don't understand the reasons we kept him. Perine to the Broncos was a net loss for player and team.... Perine is a better fit for this offense here and he's getting very little action in Denver.

 

[Cincyfan78]

And this isn't new. He was the same guy last year when he couldn't break or avoid tackles. The fact that the Bengals were insistent on keeping him is mind boggling. He was due too much money and he had some weird legal charges against him. It was the perfect time to cut bait. Instead, they deal with him and let him take less to come back. Now, if you were to tell me that he is an important cog in our passing game and that we are a passing team, I think you would have a case. But, he's never been a 3 down back because he is a liability in pass protection and he is mostly average as a receiver. I still don't understand the reasons we kept him. Perine to the Broncos was a net loss for player and team.... Perine is a better fit for this offense here and he's getting very little action in Denver.

Perrine's stats were not much better than Mixon's. He ran harder, so I think he passed the "eye" test when comp'd against Mixon, but his raw stats were not really any better.

I think they were hoping it was a down year for Mixon, and that the OL wasn't playing up to par (for yet another season). But his advanced stats are telling a big story. His best days are well behind him, and for a team that has struggled so mightily on short yardage and other areas (lack of explosive runs) he just isn't getting done on a personal level, whether the OL has helped or not.

I will say he's improved in the passing game as a receiver and has done a nice job this year - but before the knee injury, Chase Brown was going to be a pretty solid RB in the draft. I think the knee dropped him, but he's supposed to be a decent pass-pro blocker and clearly can run the ball. I'd love to see him get a little more run (no pun intended) to see if he can't provide something that Mixon is not.

 

[cincygrad]

Perrine's stats were not much better than Mixon's. He ran harder, so I think he passed the "eye" test when comp'd against Mixon, but his raw stats were not really any better.

I think they were hoping it was a down year for Mixon, and that the OL wasn't playing up to par (for yet another season). But his advanced stats are telling a big story. His best days are well behind him, and for a team that has struggled so mightily on short yardage and other areas (lack of explosive runs) he just isn't getting done on a personal level, whether the OL has helped or not.

I will say he's improved in the passing game as a receiver and has done a nice job this year - but before the knee injury, Chase Brown was going to be a pretty solid RB in the draft. I think the knee dropped him, but he's supposed to be a decent pass-pro blocker and clearly can run the ball. I'd love to see him get a little more run (no pun intended) to see if he can't provide something that Mixon is not.

Look beyond the running stats. Was the offense more efficient when Perine was in the game? My hunch it was. I think our passing game functioned better without Mixon in the lineup.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Look beyond the running stats. Was the offense more efficient when Perine was in the game? My hunch it was. I think our passing game functioned better without Mixon in the lineup.

I won't argue the passing sets were better. Perrine was a better blocker and receiver.

But, overall, I honestly don't think the rushing game functioned that much better with him in the game. Though, I think we are splitting hairs because neither guy is going to be the "fix" at RB that this offense needs. They need a guy who can do 2 things at a much higher level than either Mixon or Perrine can do.

1 - Yards after contact.
2 - Explosive plays.

Neither guy is going to offer this at their respective stages of their careers.

 

[cincygrad]

I won't argue the passing sets were better. Perrine was a better blocker and receiver.

But, overall, I honestly don't think the rushing game functioned that much better with him in the game. Though, I think we are splitting hairs because neither guy is going to be the "fix" at RB that this offense needs. They need a guy who can do 2 things at a much higher level than either Mixon or Perrine can do.

1 - Yards after contact.
2 - Explosive plays.

Neither guy is going to offer this at their respective stages of their careers.

I don't disagree. But, given this staff's undying dedication to abandon the run in every game, I think you need to have your primary back be a real asset in the passing game. Mixon's liabilities in the passing game have contributed to the predictability of play calling. I'd rather just roll out a running back that doesn't need to be removed when they can't seem to hold a block for a half second.

 

[cincygrad]

I mean, at this point, we are lining up Drew Sample as a running back. And we're doing it because nobody can be counted on to pick up a blitz. So, we are taking one eligible receiver and telling the D that you don't need to worry about this guy.

And it's not like running backs are expensive. Philly signed Swift for 9 million over 4 years. It makes my head hurt.

 

[DanBengalfan]

We sign TEs and use them as FBs, because "our offense..."

We tried to fill the TE void with Irv Smith, and the void got larger, that was not what we hoped for.

We also tried to move on from Mixon, and it just didn't work out. I think RB by committee should be a thing here, give these guys a chance to prove themselves before we draft their replacement.

 

[Cincyfan78]

We sign TEs and use them as FBs, because "our offense..."

We tried to fill the TE void with Irv Smith, and the void got larger, that was not what we hoped for.

We also tried to move on from Mixon, and it just didn't work out. I think RB by committee should be a thing here, give these guys a chance to prove themselves before we draft their replacement.

I realize Hudson isn't the long-term answer, but he at least looks like he could be a better option for this year. In 2 games where Smith was out, he has all around better per game stats, and looks like he's a much better blocker.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Perrine's stats were not much better than Mixon's. He ran harder, so I think he passed the "eye" test when comp'd against Mixon, but his raw stats were not really any better.

I think they were hoping it was a down year for Mixon, and that the OL wasn't playing up to par (for yet another season). But his advanced stats are telling a big story. His best days are well behind him, and for a team that has struggled so mightily on short yardage and other areas (lack of explosive runs) he just isn't getting done on a personal level, whether the OL has helped or not.

I will say he's improved in the passing game as a receiver and has done a nice job this year - but before the knee injury, Chase Brown was going to be a pretty solid RB in the draft. I think the knee dropped him, but he's supposed to be a decent pass-pro blocker and clearly can run the ball. I'd love to see him get a little more run (no pun intended) to see if he can't provide something that Mixon is not.

There is no one that runs real well in our offense. There are games where someone might break out for a 100 yard gain or average 5 to 5.5 yards per carry, but those are far and few in between. Our style of offense does not fit with a running team in any way, which is why we should almost never pay any kind of money for a RB while Burrow is here with our current style of offense. You have a power back, and you have a receiving back. That is what we should have and it should cost us more than 5 million for both combined.

 

[Cincyfan78]

There is no one that runs real well in our offense. There are games where someone might break out for a 100 yard gain or average 5 to 5.5 yards per carry, but those are far and few in between. Our style of offense does not fit with a running team in any way, which is why we should almost never pay any kind of money for a RB while Burrow is here with our current style of offense. You have a power back, and you have a receiving back. That is what we should have and it should cost us more than 5 million for both combined.

I'll disagree to a point...it's hard for the run game to look good when your RB is nearly 50th of 54 qualifying RB's in some pretty important areas such has yards after contact and elusiveness

He was also nearly dead last, or dead last, in the previous season with expected yards against a light box (7 defenders or less). If teams are going to drop 8 for most of the game, and force the offense to grind out drives, it's going to be really hard to hit explosive pass plays and it will screw with the consistency of the offense as a whole.

When I watch the run game, there are times Mixon and the run game are done no favors - there's no arguing that. However, there are other times when you can see holes open up and Mixon runs into a wall of blockers, defenders, goes down on 1st contact, or can't get by and make that 1st defender miss.

That doesn't mean you're wrong about paying a RB - but I think that is in general and not specific to the Bengals. Unless you have a top 3 RB, and even then...it's tough to justify.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I'll disagree to a point...it's hard for the run game to look good when your RB is nearly 50th of 54 qualifying RB's in some pretty important areas such has yards after contact and elusiveness

He was also nearly dead last, or dead last, in the previous season with expected yards against a light box (7 defenders or less). If teams are going to drop 8 for most of the game, and force the offense to grind out drives, it's going to be really hard to hit explosive pass plays and it will screw with the consistency of the offense as a whole.

When I watch the run game, there are times Mixon and the run game are done no favors - there's no arguing that. However, there are other times when you can see holes open up and Mixon runs into a wall of blockers, defenders, goes down on 1st contact, or can't get by and make that 1st defender miss.

That doesn't mean you're wrong about paying a RB - but I think that is in general and not specific to the Bengals. Unless you have a top 3 RB, and even then...it's tough to justify.

I just don't see it. There is no real run blocking scheme on the offensive line. You don't see guards pull, you don't see motion blocking by the TE to help open a hole off tackle, we never use a FB, which I know it is because we don't have one, but even when we didn't have one, we would line a TE up in the backfield to create a lead blocker from time to time. Everything just looks like straight ahead man to man blocking. Teams know we throw so damn much and line up out of shotgun 90% of the time, that they bring pass rush a lot and we still can't run the ball. The RB is having to start with zero momentum down hill. 1, the RB has to wait for the QB to have the ball snapped all the way back to him, then Burrow will motion to the RB to get the handoff as a read option, giving Burrow to change his mind and go for the pass. By the time our RB has a chance to do anything, he is starting with the ball in his hands and guys nearly on top of him before he can even take a real step to build momentum, so he spends most his time dancing behind the line of scrimmage.

Granted, there are time Mixon is horrible at reading the hole also, and a lot he is too quick to go down, especially by one defender. I am not saying that Mixon is the answer, but what I am saying is how bad our run blocking scheme and style of offense is for the RB's.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I just don't see it. There is no real run blocking scheme on the offensive line. You don't see guards pull, you don't see motion blocking by the TE to help open a hole off tackle, we never use a FB, which I know it is because we don't have one, but even when we didn't have one, we would line a TE up in the backfield to create a lead blocker from time to time. Everything just looks like straight ahead man to man blocking. Teams know we throw so damn much and line up out of shotgun 90% of the time, that they bring pass rush a lot and we still can't run the ball. The RB is having to start with zero momentum down hill. 1, the RB has to wait for the QB to have the ball snapped all the way back to him, then Burrow will motion to the RB to get the handoff as a read option, giving Burrow to change his mind and go for the pass. By the time our RB has a chance to do anything, he is starting with the ball in his hands and guys nearly on top of him before he can even take a real step to build momentum, so he spends most his time dancing behind the line of scrimmage.

Granted, there are time Mixon is horrible at reading the hole also, and a lot he is too quick to go down, especially by one defender. I am not saying that Mixon is the answer, but what I am saying is how bad our run blocking scheme and style of offense is for the RB's.

Well, I mean...that's just not true. I've watched guards and tackles pull. They've put TE's in the backfield as a defacto FB at times.

I think 2 teams in the NFL have an actual FB....that is a position that has gone the way of the dodo bird....extinct. The Power I formation days are a thing of the past. The vast majority of the NFL is operating out of the shotgun more than not, including in the run game.

For the past few seasons, the OL has been pretty bad, but in addition the advanced metrics show you how bad Mixon has been. 1st contact at the LOS and he goes down. Has an open hole, needs to beat 1 man and can't evade him. Faced more light boxes than any RB in the NFL, and can't get more than 4 yards a carry?

I mean, I agree the running game isn't the focus of this offense, but to think that this offense in general is a reason why the run game is poor is simply not factually true at all. The metrics are telling a vastly different story. The Bengals are averaging less than 70 yards a game on the ground. Dead last in the NFL. If you don't think that a guy that could get 2 more yards after contact on a few runs here and there, and make a guy miss here or there wouldn't make the run game look vastly improved...I don't know what to tell you. Put Mixon in the middle of those 50-some RB's with yards after contact and elusiveness and you are adding at least 30 more yards a game, and likely more opportunity to add to that. That would put the Bengals right in the middle of the NFL in rushing per game.

I'll argue that one of the reasons that they do pass as much as they do isn't just because "Burrow" but because their RB sucks...3rd and short...can't fight for extra yards. Can't make that guy miss. Need to salt away the game late? Can't rely on him picking up those yards needed to keep the chains moving, and so you do what you have to do...and that's put the ball back in Burrow's hands. The NFL is absolutely a passing league, but to think that RB's still don't play a vital role in games is just nonsensical.