Michigan State turning into the new Baylor?

[ericd7633]

Every year is different, as the players are different. The best coaches are the guys who get their players to buy into their coaching philosophy and the culture they are trying to build.

Prior to the last 5 or 6 years -- they were talking about Dantonio losing control of his lockerroom, because the same type of thing was happening (on and off the field issues).

Being a disciplinarian isnt just handing out punishment -- it is making the players believe what you are telling them, to buy into your system, to believe in the team and family mantra you beat into their heads.

And these players haven't for whatever reason, even though the philosophy and message was probably the same.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

And these players haven't for whatever reason, even though the philosophy and message was probably the same.

I agree. And if he can't get his players to buy into his system and culture, they are not..........a disciplined team.

 

[ericd7633]

I agree. And if he can't get his players to buy into his system and culture, they are not..........a disciplined team.

Yes, because there are players who aren't capable of being disciplined even though the message has been the same for a decade.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Yes, because there are players who aren't capable of being disciplined even though the message has been the same for a decade.

And who has the responsibility of making these players buy into what he is teaching?

 

[ericd7633]

And who has the responsibility of making these players buy into what he is teaching?

Ultimately it's on the individual players, especially if the message is still the same that lead you to believe MSU has been "well disciplined" under Dantonio.

 

[7Samurai13]

I love how Michigan fans are jumping to slam Michigan's state on this when there has been no arrests made and but when it was their kicker accused of assault " we need to let the process work" and their kicker was never even suspended neither was the player who threatened to r@pe/kill her if she didn't drop charges. Police did nothing about the witness tampering. No wonder she wouldn't cooperate with the investigation.

And for the record, I said kick all the players off the team.

 

[4down20]

Lastly and the main reason I continue to laugh at you and shake my head -- discipline DOES NOT only mean punishment. As I said already -- if every player on MSU gets arrested and Dantonio punishes all of them. That DOES NOT make them a well disciplined team. When you get that through your thick skull -- you will see just how wrong you are here.

So you are saying it doesn't matter what Dantonio does, if people are going to fuck up - they are going to fuck up and it has nothing to do with the environment provided.

Yep, that's what I've been saying all along.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Ultimately it's on the individual players, especially if the message is still the same that lead you to believe MSU has been "well disciplined" under Dantonio.

So basically this goes back to 'every team in the country is well disciplined' in your mind. Because every coach will hand out a punishment.

It is the coaches JOB to get through to these players. The coach is the one who brought these players onto the team, they offered them the scholarship, they sold their parents on the program and school.

It'd be like me saying, as a parent -- not my problem my kid isn't listening, I gave him a time out just last week so he is well disciplined. If he acts out, it is on him. You have to get them to understand and believe what you are teaching them.

Will you have a few bad apples? ABSOLUTELY. A few isn't 20 guys. A few is 2, 3, 4.

And what works with some kids doesn't work with others -- so saying, he has had disciplined teams in the past, so it is the kids fault isn't true. Coaches have to adapt on a team to team and even a player to player basis. Some teams will be loaded with seniors, so you will have those players to help out. Others are really young, so you are going to have to drill the team over and over what you expect from them.

If it were as simplistic as saying a coach has a disciplined team because he has punished players -- they wouldn't be paying them 7 figure salaries.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

So you are saying it doesn't matter what Dantonio does, if people are going to fuck up - they are going to fuck up and it has nothing to do with the environment provided.

Yep, that's what I've been saying all along.

Beep beep. Out of 4down20's way.

 

[4down20]

So basically this goes back to 'every team in the country is well disciplined' in your mind. Because every coach will hand out a punishment.

Actually, every coach does not and if you want to see an example of a coach losing control of a team and it leading to problems, then look no further than Urban Meyer at Florida.

And it also seems that Urban has learned from his mistakes and is much more of a disciplinarian at Ohio St now.

Furthermore, while punishment is the most common consequence for discipline, the purpose of the discipline is to create change in the behavior of the player. So effective punishments/consequences are also needed.

That said, yes, the vast majority of the coaches out there do punish and the vast majority of teams out there don't get into much trouble.

 

[ericd7633]

So basically this goes back to 'every team in the country is well disciplined' in your mind. Because every coach will hand out a punishment.

It is the coaches JOB to get through to these players. The coach is the one who brought these players onto the team, they offered them the scholarship, they sold their parents on the program and school.

It'd be like me saying, as a parent -- not my problem my kid isn't listening, I gave him a time out just last week so he is well disciplined. If he acts out, it is on him. You have to get them to understand and believe what you are teaching them.

Will you have a few bad apples? ABSOLUTELY. A few isn't 20 guys. A few is 2, 3, 4.

And what works with some kids doesn't work with others -- so saying, he has had disciplined teams in the past, so it is the kids fault isn't true. Coaches have to adapt on a team to team and even a player to player basis. Some teams will be loaded with seniors, so you will have those players to help out. Others are really young, so you are going to have to drill the team over and over what you expect from them.

If it were as simplistic as saying a coach has a disciplined team because he has punished players -- they wouldn't be paying them 7 figure salaries.

1. Not everything is black and white. IMO there are varying degrees of discipline. I certainly think there are preventative measures coaches can take to try to instill discipline, as well as players being disciplined for any wrong doing. If it doesn't work that's on the players. Obviously, you think Dantonio has a good reputation or you wouldn't have said what you said. If someone is going to sexually assault someone, I'm not sure there's anything that can be done whether preventative or disciplinarian wise to help IMO.

2. These "kids" are 19-22 year olds. You can't compare them to a 10 year old. And we don't know what the 15 players did to get suspended for the Spring Game, my guess is that it's not something like the few who have been charged with sexual assault.

And I never said anything about the bolded part.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Actually, every coach does not and if you want to see an example of a coach losing control of a team and it leading to problems, then look no further than Urban Meyer at Florida.

And it also seems that Urban has learned from his mistakes and is much more of a disciplinarian at Ohio St now.

Furthermore, while punishment is the most common consequence for discipline, the purpose of the discipline is to create change in the behavior of the player. So effective punishments/consequences are also needed.

That said, yes, the vast majority of the coaches out there do punish and the vast majority of teams out there don't get into much trouble.

What are you talking about? He suspended Hernandez and Percy Harvin. So with your logic, he is a disciplined coach.

 

[4down20]

What are you talking about? He suspended Hernandez and Percy Harvin. So with your logic, he is a disciplined coach.

From champs to chomped: How Urban Meyer broke Florida football

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

1. Not everything is black and white. IMO there are varying degrees of discipline. I certainly think there are preventative measures coaches can take to try to instill discipline, as well as players being disciplined for any wrong doing. If it doesn't work that's on the players. Obviously, you think Dantonio has a good reputation or you wouldn't have said what you said. If someone is going to sexually assault someone, I'm not sure there's anything that can be done whether preventative or disciplinarian wise to help IMO.

2. These "kids" are 19-22 year olds. You can't compare them to a 10 year old. And we don't know what the 15 players did to get suspended for the Spring Game, my guess is that it's not something like the few who have been charged with sexual assault.

And I never said anything about the bolded part.

1. I agree about the sexual assault part. The only reason I would even lump it in with Dantonio is that a coach, he hired, was suspended along side those players.

2. They are still kids. They are living on their own for the first time and have freedoms they didn't have before. Some grew up in single parent households, some grew up without dad's, some grew up without role models, etc. The coach knows what he is getting as they do extensive research when recruiting these kids. It is the head coaches job to get his message across and make sure his players buy into it.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

From champs to chomped: How Urban Meyer broke Florida football

You act like a Michigan fan doesn't know the entire story behind Ohio State's coach.

Did you already forget your comments from earlier about discipline and a disciplined team?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Thanks. They are doing good. Terrorizing us, mostly. Your kid looks like he is 10 already lol

He is still only 3. 4th birthday coming up. Crazy how fast they grow up.

 

[Innermind]

Wow...more trouble for Spartans football.

2017 class signee WDE Lashawn Paulino-Bell injured in Bahamas jet ski accident and is airlifted to Florida hospital with internal injuries.

Michigan State signee Lashawn Paulino-Bell hospitalized after jet ski accident

As a top-notch edge speed rusher, Bell is (was?) expected to compete for a starting spot on the Spartans defensive line as a true Freshman.


Sheesh... God must hate Michigan State.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

The first MSU player has been officially charged and named:


4 star Defensive End in the 2016 class. In line to get significant playing time this year.

 

[7Samurai13]

The first MSU player has been officially charged and named:


4 star Defensive End in the 2016 class. In line to get significant playing time this year.

Show that man the door.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Show that man the door.

apparently just came off probation for something he did in High School.