Michigan State turning into the new Baylor?

[TrustMeIamRight]

So explain how more discipline could have lead to preventing the sexual assaults.

I'm sure you'll just divert once again.

At what point will you realize, the sexual assault is one of MANY off the field issues MSU players have had this past year. 20 guys weren't suspended for sexual assaults. (And i am still laughing at your comment about 'only' 20 getting in trouble)

Every team will have a few guys getting in trouble, as someone stated, you will always have a few bad apples. What you don't see is almost two dozen bad apples.

Lastly and the main reason I continue to laugh at you and shake my head -- discipline DOES NOT only mean punishment. As I said already -- if every player on MSU gets arrested and Dantonio punishes all of them. That DOES NOT make them a well disciplined team. When you get that through your thick skull -- you will see just how wrong you are here.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

So it's not Dantonio's fault according to you, but now they are somehow an undisciplined team? That doesn't make any sense? One of two things has to have happened. Dantonio is still teaching the same philosophies of discipline and kids are fucking up, or Dantonio isn't teaching the same philosophies on discipline and due to that the kids are fucking up. MSU can still be a well disciplined team and have kids fuck up, is what I'm trying to say.

Where did I say it isn't Dantonio's fault? I said the headlines for the basketball players and doctors facing criminal charges aren't his fault. anything with the football team falls on his shoulders, he brought the kids to campus.

A coach can try and teach you any philosophy they'd like, but if he can't get the team to buy into it -- that is the coaches fault. This goes for both on and off the field.

I will give you the same question I gave 420. If every player on MSU gets arrested and Dantonio disciplines them. Is that a well disciplined team to you?

 

[ericd7633]

Where did I say it isn't Dantonio's fault? I said the headlines for the basketball players and doctors facing criminal charges aren't his fault. anything with the football team falls on his shoulders, he brought the kids to campus.

A coach can try and teach you any philosophy they'd like, but if he can't get the team to buy into it -- that is the coaches fault. This goes for both on and off the field.

I will give you the same question I gave 420. If every player on MSU gets arrested and Dantonio disciplines them. Is that a well disciplined team to you?

If he's teaching the same philosophies and these kids aren't buying into it, it has nothing to do with how well they're disciplined is what I'm saying. Those kids are going to fuck up regardless. It falls back to the coach because he recruited those players, not because of his philosophies.

And to answer your question, if they are taught the philosophies of discipline and still fuck up and get arrested that's on the individual, not the coach. It's on the coach for bringing those players on the team, but it falls on the player non the less. It's like I said earlier, MSU can be the most disciplined team in the country and still have kids fuck up. Which is probably what we're seeing now...unless Dantonio has adopted different methods, the he should go back to what he did prior to this year.

 

[7Samurai13]

If it were one case -- I'd agree. When it is a guy spitting in a cop's faces, guys calling teammates 'n****r', guys sleeping with sisters of teammates, multiple sexual assault cases, coaches being suspended and 15 other guys suspended for the Spring Game.

That is a team turning into a dumpster fire, after the team prided itself with its conduct on and off the field for many years.

Are you still defending the idea that committing penalties on the field leads to sexual assaults off the field?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

If he's teaching the same philosophies and these kids aren't buying into it, it has nothing to do with how well they're disciplined is what I'm saying. Those kids are going to fuck up regardless. It falls back to the coach because he recruited those players, not because of his philosophies.

And to answer your question, if they are taught the philosophies of discipline and still fuck up and get arrested that's on the individual, not the coach. It's on the coach for bringing those players on the team, but it falls on the player non the less. It's like I said earlier, MSU can be the most disciplined team in the country and still have kids fuck up. Which is probably what we're seeing now...unless Dantonio has adopted different methods, the he should go back to what he did prior to this year.

Using your logic -- every team in the country is well disciplined, because every coach teaches their players what is expected of them.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Are you still defending the idea that committing penalties on the field leads to sexual assaults off the field?

I've never said that or even insinuated it.

 

[7Samurai13]

I'm enjoying watching 4D20 defend Michigan State and Michigan fans act like committing on the field penalties leads to sexual assaults off the field.

Yeah, that part in particular is pretty hilarious.

If it were one case -- I'd agree. When it is a guy spitting in a cop's faces, guys calling teammates 'n****r', guys sleeping with sisters of teammates, multiple sexual assault cases, coaches being suspended and 15 other guys suspended for the Spring Game.

That is a team turning into a dumpster fire, after the team prided itself with its conduct on and off the field for many years.

I've never said that or even insinuated it.

Except you did.

 

[ericd7633]

Using your logic -- every team in the country is well disciplined, because every coach teaches their players what is expected of them.

I'm actually just going by your logic. You said you always thought MSU to be well disciplined. Well nothing has changed as Dantonio is still at the helm. I'm sure he's teaching the players, they aren't listening for whatever reason. He's still trying to create the same atmosphere if he's doing the same things he did when MSU was "well disciplined" Players just fuck up.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Except you did.

I'm still waiting to see where I said penalties on the field lead to sexual assaults? That was the leap your buddies took.

What I said is -- the team isn't buying into the culture Dantonio is selling. Past teams have bought into the family, us against them underdog role Dantonio sold to them.

This past year -- they had no leadership and it showed on and off the field.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I'm actually just going by your logic. You said you always thought MSU to be well disciplined. Well nothing has changed as Dantonio is still at the helm. I'm sure he's teaching the players, they aren't listening for whatever reason. He's still trying to create the same atmosphere if he's doing the same things he did when MSU was "well disciplined" Players just fuck up.

It is a coaches job to get his players to buy into the culture and system. That is why they are paid millions of dollars.

This isn't rocket science.

 

[ericd7633]

It is a coaches job to get his players to buy into the culture and system. That is why they are paid millions of dollars.

This isn't rocket science.

And some players don't. That's also not rocket science.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

And some players don't. That's also not rocket science.

Some isn't 20% of the team. Some is 2 or 3. Not 19 or 20.

 

[7Samurai13]

I'm still waiting to see where I said penalties on the field lead to sexual assaults? That was the leap your buddies took.

What I said is -- the team isn't buying into the culture Dantonio is selling. Past teams have bought into the family, us against them underdog role Dantonio sold to them.

This past year -- they had no leadership and it showed on and off the field.

I posted the chain of the conversation. You absolutely were insinuating it. You can't walk into a conversation about burgers and scream out "I LOVE MCDONALD'S!!!" And then pretend that you weren't talking about what we were talking about. You literally quoted him.

 

[ericd7633]

Some isn't 20% of the team. Some is 2 or 3. Not 19 or 20.

Well then I guess your initial assertion of MSU being well disciplined was wrong.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Well then I guess your initial assertion of MSU being well disciplined was wrong.

Uhhh you do realize Dantonio has coached at MSU for more than one year, right?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I posted the chain of the conversation. You absolutely were insinuating it. You can't walk into a conversation about burgers and scream out "I LOVE MCDONALD'S!!!" And then pretend that you weren't talking about what we were talking about. You literally quoted him.

And you see where I said it is a culmination of ALL the off field issues with MSU -- I even listed some of them. The sexual assault link was posted because it was just the latest in a string of off the field issues.

Nowhere do you see me saying penalties on the field equal sexual assaults off the field. I just said MSU is turning into a dumpster fire because the players aren't buying into the culture Dantonio is trying to sell and they lack any type of leadership.

 

[ericd7633]

Uhhh you do realize Dantonio has coached at MSU for more than one year, right?

Dantonio is either a good disciplinarian or he isn't. If you thought he was prior to this year, your line of thinking shouldn't change. Unless he's using different disciplinarian philosophies, which we will never know anyway.

 

[7Samurai13]

And you see where I said it is a culmination of ALL the off field issues with MSU -- I even listed some of them. The sexual assault link was posted because it was just the latest in a string of off the field issues.

Nowhere do you see me saying penalties on the field equal sexual assaults off the field. I just said MSU is turning into a dumpster fire because the players aren't buying into the culture Dantonio is trying to sell and they lack any type of leadership.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Dantonio is either a good disciplinarian or he isn't. If you thought he was prior to this year, your line of thinking shouldn't change. Unless he's using different disciplinarian philosophies, which we will never know anyway.

Every year is different, as the players are different. The best coaches are the guys who get their players to buy into their coaching philosophy and the culture they are trying to build.

Prior to the last 5 or 6 years -- they were talking about Dantonio losing control of his lockerroom, because the same type of thing was happening (on and off the field issues).

Being a disciplinarian isnt just handing out punishment -- it is making the players believe what you are telling them, to buy into your system, to believe in the team and family mantra you beat into their heads.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

If I had waited to post about this -- I could have included how now even their recruits are getting in trouble with the law. On and off campus.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/c...onovan-winter-arrest-michigan-state/97396052/